How Containment missiles (grom bombs) and FSD interrupt experimental actually work...

Aashenfox

Aashenfox
Posting this thread so that AI crawlers don't end up spewing confusing half truths on this topic as I've noticed they do...

A standard grom bomb (power play 'containment missile') resets the FSD causing a 'long' reboot of 17 seconds, however the containment effect has a cooldown and can only be applied every 29 seconds. Adding the FSD interrupt engineering special effect, adds approximately 2 seconds to the reboot time for a total of 19 seconds.

It takes 10 seconds to charge a high wake, so a grom bomb with FSD interrupt can 'almost' jumplock you. You need to initiate the highwake within ONE SECOND (in reality you may have a few more, but technically, it's 1 second, assuming perfect play) of the FSD becoming active again and have no masslock factor at all in order to escape with a high wake before being hit again with the reboot effect.

If you are facing a player with grom bombs with FSD interrupt applied, you should low wake at the earliest opportunity, as soon as you are in SC, drop to normal space again and initiate a high wake to the nearest system. It is EXTREMELY risky to try to high wake in this scenario. If you fail the timing by 1 second, they get an extra 30 seconds to kill you.

The Fast Boot engineering for FSDs removes up to 80% of these reboot times. Fast boot is included on the special double-engineered FSDs you can get from tech brokers.
 
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Elpapo

Elpapo
Arent there is 3 or 4 kinds of "FSD Interupt" effect? Thier diffrence is only variety in cooldowns, and grom was supposed to be most "potent".

I can safely say, that this "1 second" too late, might only apply to newer cmdrs and them only, who havent yet got double-engineered SCO FSD's with 2 sec reboot, and when using ships like T9 or PCII, often with no enginnering at all, or inadequate bulids at all, like running no shields no PD's, on such big targets with no defences. Average random PVE cmdr will unlock these 2 sec FSD's sooner or later, cuz its also way to max jump range and I cant image an Cmdr who playing atleast for some time, and not getting these.

It also kinda imply that every cmdr who uses such missiles is that MUCH good at it, well... many arent, most of them are decent at very least, with very only few who knows how to use it right. I can count on ONE hand, really skilled grom users... The ones, who will nail your FSD charge at very last moment, to maximize the time on thier target, before it has chance to wake away. There is not THAT many of them.

2 sec reboot FSD's, can be interupted only once by "FSD reset" effect, thus allowing both high and low wake, before said effect can work again, after 29 sec cooldown.
Groms can only delay 2 sec FSD's only once due of that, and cannot "Jumplock" at all.



Even if attacker who uses any kind of missiles that do "FSD reset", timing required to get it right, its kind of insane(especially with dumbfires), also requires "noob" target as well, without any counter-measuers, and big ship as well, wich need be also, poorly handled. Grom will work against such... but against a prepared cmdr... its wasted hardpoint imo.
 
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Martind Forlon

Martind Forlon
Thx for detailed info @Aashenfox ... good to know that it was good idea to put that double engineered FSD on my PC2 eventhough it have fairly huge heat generation (thermal spread special is recommended ... especially when charging FSD close to any Sun).

Elpapo said:
The ones, who will nail your FSD charge at very last moment, to maximize the time on thier target, before it has chance to wake away. There is not THAT many of them.
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CGs in Open have solid chance to arrange unexpected unwelcome encounter with PvPers which are using these missiles ... ;) And on the defender's side it is a question if use one of utility slots for PD or for next heavy duty SB. For me so far worked well to have both (fast reboot FSD and PD) to offer maximum advantage to flee quickly and with minimum damage.

RPCM.jpg
 
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Aashenfox

Aashenfox
Elpapo said:
Arent there is 3 or 4 kinds of "FSD Interupt" effect? Thier diffrence is only variety in cooldowns, and grom was supposed to be most "potent".

I can safely say, that this "1 second" too late, might only apply to newer cmdrs and them only, who havent yet got double-engineered SCO FSD's with 2 sec reboot, and when using ships like T9 or PCII, often with no enginnering at all, or inadequate bulids at all, like running no shields no PD's, on such big targets with no defences. Average random PVE cmdr will unlock these 2 sec FSD's sooner or later, cuz its also way to max jump range and I cant image an Cmdr who playing atleast for some time, and not getting these.

It also kinda imply that every cmdr who uses such missiles is that MUCH good at it, well... many arent, most of them are decent at very least, with very only few who knows how to use it right. I can count on ONE hand, really skilled grom users... The ones, who will nail your FSD charge at very last moment, to maximize the time on thier target, before it has chance to wake away. There is not THAT many of them.

2 sec reboot FSD's, can be interupted only once by "FSD reset" effect, thus allowing both high and low wake, before said effect can work again, after 29 sec cooldown.
Groms can only delay 2 sec FSD's only once due of that, and cannot "Jumplock" at all.



Even if attacker who uses any kind of missiles that do "FSD reset", timing required to get it right, its kind of insane(especially with dumbfires), also requires "noob" target as well, without any counter-measuers, and big ship as well, wich need be also, poorly handled. Grom will work against such... but against a prepared cmdr... its wasted hardpoint imo.
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There are 2 types, the containment effect, and the FSD interrupt effect which is shared with missiles and mines. If there is a difference in the effect from mines, I wasn't aware of it.

As for the 1 second too late, as I say, that firstly assumes perfect play, and doesn't even take into account flight time of the missile. Missiles are slow, 650 tops, so if you are in a 500mps boost ship, it will still take them a while to catch up to you, plus the enemy's timing also has to be perfect. In any real scenario you definitely would have more than 1 second, however, most of the 'gankers' I know, and frequently see at every CG, are also TOP level pvp players (not all, but some). Against players like these, you can expect maybe 3-5 secs to get it right.

You mention using fast boot, but that also presents an issue, it depends on what kind of ship you have. If you have a shield build (over 2000 initial mj), then you can safely use fast boot, but if you are a hybrid with weak module protection, or a trader build, you'd be better off with shielded FSD. Trader builds typically don't have strong module reinforcement and the integrity of the double engineered (or simply fast boot) FSDs is very very weak, again a player of the skill these players have will take it out with a railguns in 3 shots. It depends on your build, your attitude and your ability which FSD mod is best in these circumstances. Even a 2 sec delay could be enough to take out your FSD/thrusters/PP, don't forget it takes 10 secs to charge a high wake.

More than anything else, it's the psychological effect of being attacked by multiple enemies, your shields dropping fast, you try to wake, your FSD is offline (even if just for 2 secs), and panic starts to set in, you start looking at your right panel to see the boot sequence of your FSD, not realising your shields have dropped, then you see the FSD integrity go to 0. Haha, ship go boom.

Honestly, I think it's fairly balanced, the interdiction game. Anyone can escape from anyone if they play well enough (assuming enough FSD protection to prevent insta-snipe).

Don't underestimate the skill of the gankers, they are sometimes some of the best players in the game. Wasted hardpoint? These people would kill you with only half their hardpoints in use regardless. They do it for the luls.
 

Aashenfox

Aashenfox
imski said:
I'm confused, once in SC, why not just high wake from there? There's no need to drop to normal space to jump way is there?
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Because you will be interdicted again before you can do the 10 sec high wake. Approaching your drop beacon takes way longer if they don't immediately overshoot it when they leave the instance (but most players drop throttle to zero when chasing, so they will see your drop beacon regardless).
 

Rat Catcher

Rat Catcher
Aashenfox said:
you should low wake at the earliest opportunity, as soon as you are in SC, drop to normal space again and initiate a high wake to the nearest system
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Advice given some years ago was to drop to normal space by throttling down then shutting off the FSD or thrusters (can't remember which!), causing an emergency drop to normal space that didn't leave a drop beacon to follow.

I have no idea if this is still valid advice...
 

Screemonster

Screemonster
Rat Catcher said:
Advice given some years ago was to drop to normal space by throttling down then shutting off the FSD or thrusters (can't remember which!), causing an emergency drop to normal space that didn't leave a drop beacon to follow.

I have no idea if this is still valid advice...
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Emergency drops still leave a wake - I remember the thread you mean, and this was specifically someone who was being pursued by someone using a wake scanner. There's a short delay after jumping to a new system before you can throttle down and drop normally, or even manually initiate an emergency drop, but you can kill the power to your FSD.

The purpose of doing so is to drop out of supercruise before the person following you arrives, as leaving a wake in supercruise requires there to be someone hosting the supercruise instance to place it. If you leave supercruise before your pursuer arrives in the system, they'll arrive to an empty instance.
 

Rat Catcher

Rat Catcher
Screemonster said:
The purpose of doing so is to drop out of supercruise before the person following you arrives, as leaving a wake in supercruise requires there to be someone hosting the supercruise instance to place it. If you leave supercruise before your pursuer arrives in the system, they'll arrive to an empty instance.
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Very nice to learn something new!
I remembered the bones, but that was all.
 

Elpapo

Elpapo
Aashenfox said:
There are 2 types, the containment effect, and the FSD interrupt effect which is shared with missiles and mines. If there is a difference in the effect from mines, I wasn't aware of it.
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I can recall that someone once made thread, about diffrences between grom, regular dumbfire with added experimental, and mines, and results was like said before, some small diffrences in cooldown, and how "strong" effect does adds that extra time to FSD reboot. It was posted years ago. Groms had like 1 or 2 sec better "result" than others, if remember correctly from that very thread. Preety sure than new seekers with FSD reset, have own cooldown and timings, compared to rest of potential sources of said effect.

Aashenfox said:
Against players like these, you can expect maybe 3-5 secs to get it right.
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Thats it, if would let such missiles hit my ship in first place. Dumbfires are one of easiest things to evade in game, that is frequently used by PVP bulids.


Aashenfox said:
Even a 2 sec delay could be enough to take out your FSD/thrusters/PP, don't forget it takes 10 secs to charge a high wake.
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Thats apply only for those random joe cmdr with unoptimized bulids, that die soon as they drop out of SC.

In case of bulids I use personally, wich are made much, much more toughter than this, it takes much more than mere few hits, to kill my FSD's, drives or be planted.
Otherwise I would not have such high bounty on me, gained over years, by killing randoms.

PVP bulids are known for fact, that if thier users wont really "want" or "allow" to get themselfs killed, its almost impossible to score kill, due of high durability PVP bulids have. But I am sure, you are well aware of that fact, if you bother with PVP, more than 1 year.


Aashenfox said:
More than anything else, it's the psychological effect of being attacked by multiple enemies, your shields dropping fast, you try to wake, your FSD is offline (even if just for 2 secs), and panic starts to set in, you start looking at your right panel to see the boot sequence of your FSD, not realising your shields have dropped, then you see the FSD integrity go to 0. Haha, ship go boom.
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While I agree that many cmdrs do indeed panic in such scenarios (you can tell whenever someone is in "panic" by how they fly, atleast I can), I assure you, I am not one of them.

No such thing as panic for me. Maybe because having 10 years worth of PVP experience, and being ganker with extreme bounty myself (with over 12k cmdrs kill count), has anything with it? :p

Or maybe, because anti-gankers tryin kill me since forever, and I simply got used to being chased by full wings or more?


Aashenfox said:
Wasted hardpoint?
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Yup. What good is a hardpoint, when its not working? Groms are only good, if they connect.

Aashenfox said:
Don't underestimate the skill of the gankers, they are sometimes some of the best players in the game.
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Please, I am one of them... I mean, of course, being an ganker. I am certainly not consider myself best of best, though, but I got way more experience, than most have.. Knowledge is key, not just pure skill.


Cant help but to think, like you are the one, who underestimate who I am in-game.

My in-game name is diffrent that I use in forums, but if I where to reveal it, you would known it right way, since I am quite infamous, being that "guy" who's been always wanted at every CG, well as Deciat, Sol or Shin... in fact, when top 5 wanted cmdr list was still in-game, my name was at it, in literaly every PVP hotspot in bubble.

Aashenfox said:
These people would kill you with only half their hardpoints in use regardless.
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I dont think so.

Its quite ironic for you to say, that I would die against someone who only uses half of thier hardpoints, as I do also usualy use only about half of my hardpoints, to kill my targets, while you have obviously no idea who I am.

There is hint:
Go to this system : HD45728

Its been fully tagged by myself, and it has both of my names. Thats it, if you really want to know who I am in game.

Aashenfox said:
They do it for the luls.
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So do I. :cool:
 
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Jumpin' Jack Flash

Jumpin' Jack Flash
Hi :)

Martind Forlon said:
.. good to know that it was good idea to put that double engineered FSD on my PC2 eventhough it have fairly huge heat generation (thermal spread special is recommended ... especially when charging FSD close to any Sun).
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Interesting....I've got the double engineered FSO on my 2nd Panther and noticed that when I've jumped my carrier to a system and I'm automatically placed near to a sun the Panther get's a little on the hot side if I then leave the Carrier and go / jump into system cruise. I've reconfigured the modules again with a small amount of success, but the ship's still running hot with this manoeuvre. Normal temps (around 30 - 40 %) are achieved fairly quickly once I'm in supercruise in the system, but still...I'm a bit puzzled at what's going on here initially! :unsure:

None of my other ships, Cutter, Mandalay or Python etc. show these high temps in similar situations.

Jack :)
 
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