How Containment missiles (grom bombs) and FSD interrupt experimental actually work...

[Aashenfox]

Posting this thread so that AI crawlers don't end up spewing confusing half truths on this topic as I've noticed they do...

A standard grom bomb (power play 'containment missile') resets the FSD causing a 'long' reboot of 17 seconds, however the containment effect has a cooldown and can only be applied every 29 seconds. Adding the FSD interrupt engineering special effect, adds approximately 2 seconds to the reboot time for a total of 19 seconds.

It takes 10 seconds to charge a high wake, so a grom bomb with FSD interrupt can 'almost' jumplock you. You need to initiate the highwake within ONE SECOND (in reality you may have a few more, but technically, it's 1 second, assuming perfect play) of the FSD becoming active again and have no masslock factor at all in order to escape with a high wake before being hit again with the reboot effect.

If you are facing a player with grom bombs with FSD interrupt applied, you should low wake at the earliest opportunity, as soon as you are in SC, drop to normal space again and initiate a high wake to the nearest system. It is EXTREMELY risky to try to high wake in this scenario. If you fail the timing by 1 second, they get an extra 30 seconds to kill you.

The Fast Boot engineering for FSDs removes up to 80% of these reboot times. Fast boot is included on the special double-engineered FSDs you can get from tech brokers.

 

[Elpapo]

Arent there is 3 or 4 kinds of "FSD Interupt" effect? Thier diffrence is only variety in cooldowns, and grom was supposed to be most "potent".

I can safely say, that this "1 second" too late, might only apply to newer cmdrs and them only, who havent yet got double-engineered SCO FSD's with 2 sec reboot, and when using ships like T9 or PCII, often with no enginnering at all, or inadequate bulids at all, like running no shields no PD's, on such big targets with no defences. Average random PVE cmdr will unlock these 2 sec FSD's sooner or later, cuz its also way to max jump range and I cant image an Cmdr who playing atleast for some time, and not getting these.

It also kinda imply that every cmdr who uses such missiles is that MUCH good at it, well... many arent, most of them are decent at very least, with very only few who knows how to use it right. I can count on ONE hand, really skilled grom users... The ones, who will nail your FSD charge at very last moment, to maximize the time on thier target, before it has chance to wake away. There is not THAT many of them.

2 sec reboot FSD's, can be interupted only once by "FSD reset" effect, thus allowing both high and low wake, before said effect can work again, after 29 sec cooldown.
Groms can only delay 2 sec FSD's only once due of that, and cannot "Jumplock" at all.



Even if attacker who uses any kind of missiles that do "FSD reset", timing required to get it right, its kind of insane(especially with dumbfires), also requires "noob" target as well, without any counter-measuers, and big ship as well, wich need be also, poorly handled. Grom will work against such... but against a prepared cmdr... its wasted hardpoint imo.

 

[Martind Forlon]

Thx for detailed info @Aashenfox ... good to know that it was good idea to put that double engineered FSD on my PC2 eventhough it have fairly huge heat generation (thermal spread special is recommended ... especially when charging FSD close to any Sun).

The ones, who will nail your FSD charge at very last moment, to maximize the time on thier target, before it has chance to wake away. There is not THAT many of them.

CGs in Open have solid chance to arrange unexpected unwelcome encounter with PvPers which are using these missiles ... And on the defender's side it is a question if use one of utility slots for PD or for next heavy duty SB. For me so far worked well to have both (fast reboot FSD and PD) to offer maximum advantage to flee quickly and with minimum damage.

 

[Aashenfox]

Arent there is 3 or 4 kinds of "FSD Interupt" effect? Thier diffrence is only variety in cooldowns, and grom was supposed to be most "potent".

I can safely say, that this "1 second" too late, might only apply to newer cmdrs and them only, who havent yet got double-engineered SCO FSD's with 2 sec reboot, and when using ships like T9 or PCII, often with no enginnering at all, or inadequate bulids at all, like running no shields no PD's, on such big targets with no defences. Average random PVE cmdr will unlock these 2 sec FSD's sooner or later, cuz its also way to max jump range and I cant image an Cmdr who playing atleast for some time, and not getting these.

It also kinda imply that every cmdr who uses such missiles is that MUCH good at it, well... many arent, most of them are decent at very least, with very only few who knows how to use it right. I can count on ONE hand, really skilled grom users... The ones, who will nail your FSD charge at very last moment, to maximize the time on thier target, before it has chance to wake away. There is not THAT many of them.

2 sec reboot FSD's, can be interupted only once by "FSD reset" effect, thus allowing both high and low wake, before said effect can work again, after 29 sec cooldown.
Groms can only delay 2 sec FSD's only once due of that, and cannot "Jumplock" at all.



Even if attacker who uses any kind of missiles that do "FSD reset", timing required to get it right, its kind of insane(especially with dumbfires), also requires "noob" target as well, without any counter-measuers, and big ship as well, wich need be also, poorly handled. Grom will work against such... but against a prepared cmdr... its wasted hardpoint imo.

There are 2 types, the containment effect, and the FSD interrupt effect which is shared with missiles and mines. If there is a difference in the effect from mines, I wasn't aware of it.

As for the 1 second too late, as I say, that firstly assumes perfect play, and doesn't even take into account flight time of the missile. Missiles are slow, 650 tops, so if you are in a 500mps boost ship, it will still take them a while to catch up to you, plus the enemy's timing also has to be perfect. In any real scenario you definitely would have more than 1 second, however, most of the 'gankers' I know, and frequently see at every CG, are also TOP level pvp players (not all, but some). Against players like these, you can expect maybe 3-5 secs to get it right.

You mention using fast boot, but that also presents an issue, it depends on what kind of ship you have. If you have a shield build (over 2000 initial mj), then you can safely use fast boot, but if you are a hybrid with weak module protection, or a trader build, you'd be better off with shielded FSD. Trader builds typically don't have strong module reinforcement and the integrity of the double engineered (or simply fast boot) FSDs is very very weak, again a player of the skill these players have will take it out with a railguns in 3 shots. It depends on your build, your attitude and your ability which FSD mod is best in these circumstances. Even a 2 sec delay could be enough to take out your FSD/thrusters/PP, don't forget it takes 10 secs to charge a high wake.

More than anything else, it's the psychological effect of being attacked by multiple enemies, your shields dropping fast, you try to wake, your FSD is offline (even if just for 2 secs), and panic starts to set in, you start looking at your right panel to see the boot sequence of your FSD, not realising your shields have dropped, then you see the FSD integrity go to 0. Haha, ship go boom.

Honestly, I think it's fairly balanced, the interdiction game. Anyone can escape from anyone if they play well enough (assuming enough FSD protection to prevent insta-snipe).

Don't underestimate the skill of the gankers, they are sometimes some of the best players in the game. Wasted hardpoint? These people would kill you with only half their hardpoints in use regardless. They do it for the luls.

 

[imski]

I'm confused, once in SC, why not just high wake from there? There's no need to drop to normal space to jump way is there?

 

[Aashenfox]

I'm confused, once in SC, why not just high wake from there? There's no need to drop to normal space to jump way is there?

Because you will be interdicted again before you can do the 10 sec high wake. Approaching your drop beacon takes way longer if they don't immediately overshoot it when they leave the instance (but most players drop throttle to zero when chasing, so they will see your drop beacon regardless).

 

[Rat Catcher]

you should low wake at the earliest opportunity, as soon as you are in SC, drop to normal space again and initiate a high wake to the nearest system

Advice given some years ago was to drop to normal space by throttling down then shutting off the FSD or thrusters (can't remember which!), causing an emergency drop to normal space that didn't leave a drop beacon to follow.

I have no idea if this is still valid advice...

 

[Aashenfox]

Advice given some years ago was to drop to normal space by throttling down then shutting off the FSD or thrusters (can't remember which!), causing an emergency drop to normal space that didn't leave a drop beacon to follow.

I have no idea if this is still valid advice...

Interesting, if you come across source, that sounds op.

 

[Rat Catcher]

Interesting, if you come across source, that sounds op.

That was from my Carcosa days, but I'm almost sure it was also mentioned on this forum. (but only almost)
I'll have to try it out with one of my friends, then come back and let you know the result!

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

Interesting, if you come across source, that sounds op.

Not a reliable source by any margin, but that is what 've been taught by word of mouth too.

 

[Screemonster]

Advice given some years ago was to drop to normal space by throttling down then shutting off the FSD or thrusters (can't remember which!), causing an emergency drop to normal space that didn't leave a drop beacon to follow.

I have no idea if this is still valid advice...

Emergency drops still leave a wake - I remember the thread you mean, and this was specifically someone who was being pursued by someone using a wake scanner. There's a short delay after jumping to a new system before you can throttle down and drop normally, or even manually initiate an emergency drop, but you can kill the power to your FSD.

The purpose of doing so is to drop out of supercruise before the person following you arrives, as leaving a wake in supercruise requires there to be someone hosting the supercruise instance to place it. If you leave supercruise before your pursuer arrives in the system, they'll arrive to an empty instance.

 

[Rat Catcher]

The purpose of doing so is to drop out of supercruise before the person following you arrives, as leaving a wake in supercruise requires there to be someone hosting the supercruise instance to place it. If you leave supercruise before your pursuer arrives in the system, they'll arrive to an empty instance.

Very nice to learn something new!
I remembered the bones, but that was all.