How do I fly?

jangove

J
No, seriously. This is a flight model I'm not familiar with, and am having a hard time getting my head around; it seems to be driven by roll and pitch - sort of like an aircraft but mostly not?

That is: in an a fixed wing aircraft, if I wished to execute (say) a 30-second, 180 degree turn to port (thus turning around quite sharply; and this may be completely beyond the bounds of realism. I flew helicopters and have maybe 20 hours in fixed wing --I'm not terribly up on the language) I would move the stick hard to the port. At the same time I would pull gently back on the stick, so as to keep my nose up while applying some degree of right rudder to achieve the same end. IE, I would bank to the left.

To a greater or lesser extent, all space sims I have ever played (Except I-war, which was a different beast entirely) have mimicked this control logic.

This does not at all seem to be what is happening here, and I am having a terrible time getting my head around it. There must be a document somewhere describing basically how-to-fly, but damn if I can find it.

Help, Please?
 

Pappy55uk

Pappy55uk
Roll first then pull back or forward. so say you wanted to turn right.. roll 90 degrees to the right.. then pull back to turn to new required heading.
 

Cody

Cody
Hello - I don't have the game yet, so I can't tell you how to fly.
There is a Sidewinder Owner's Manual here that may help a little though.
 

JughedJones

JughedJones
It's really not as difficult as you've made it seem in your head.

Instead of pitching the craft and assuming it will turn.. it won't .. the 'pull' is going to do all of your turning. (Except that which is done with yaw or your lateral thrusters.)

There's no atmosphere to give you drag, there's only thrust. Now.. the flight assist makes this a lot easier to wrap your head around, basically fly by wire, but the idea is the same.

You have to pull/push/or yaw for the craft to turn, and there are (at this point anyway) no g-force penalties, so give it hell.

One thing, keep an eye on your power gauge (to the left of your 'radar') you will see a blue bar that increases or decreases depending on how fast your going. This will show you where the most optimal setting is for the fastest/tightest turns... this is crucial in a dogfight and you WILL die if you don't pay attention to it!
 

Grav

Grav
You will keep rolling for as long as your stick is pointing left. Once you're rolled 90 degrees counterclockwise, you can just pitch up 180 degrees by pulling back. If your orientation is important to you once your turn is complete, just roll 90 degrees clockwise again at the end.
 

Envisage

E
Some basic understandings required for this.

Flight assist on will level you out, when you stop thrusting left, right, up, down, it will stop the momentum. Flight assist off will not counter it and you will drift.

I recommend that you learn to pilot with flight assist off as soon as you can. It sounds like you like DEFINITE rules in your head so here's the FA off idea.

Momentum. Momentum will carry indefinitely. spin one way and you will spin until you correct your spin.

Gravity. It doesn't really exist here. You're not fighting any forces, you apply the force for the desired effect and deal with that force in motion until you correct/alter it.

Pitch Vs Yaw. Pitching up and down happens at speed, Yawing happens at the rate of a slow yawn. In order to manuver a fast angle, you need to roll to engage the direction into your pitch axis. get it on the vertical on your screen. THEN, pitch into position to face it. This can include many 180 degree up or down maneuvers :) Fun right?

Thrust.


Please do not attempt to land a craft with Flight Assist off. There is no advantage, only greater risk.

Flight assist off in PvP and PvE however will make you pwn noobs and grow your girth by a factor of awesome.

I am yet to engage in FA OFF due to lack of a flight stick. Can't Wait though!.

GL!
 

jangove

J
Envisage said:
Some basic understandings required for this.

Flight assist on will level you out, when you stop thrusting left, right, up, down, it will stop the momentum. Flight assist off will not counter it and you will drift.

I recommend that you learn to pilot with flight assist off as soon as you can. It sounds like you like DEFINITE rules in your head so here's the FA off idea.
Click to expand...

I think part of the problem is that I fly, or at least flew; I flew helicopters for the (US) Army for several years. Learning to fly indoctrinates you to certain very definite ways of approaching both aircraft and flight. It is very difficult to get past that need for a really clear understanding of the principles of flight.

Momentum. Momentum will carry indefinitely. spin one way and you will spin until you correct your spin.
Click to expand...

This may be where I am going wrong. I have felt like I'm over controlling massively at every point.

Gravity. It doesn't really exist here. You're not fighting any forces, you apply the force for the desired effect and deal with that force in motion until you correct/alter it.
Click to expand...

May also be a problem. I have a really hard time not thinking in terms of "up" and "down"; in most space sims this isn't a actually much of a problem, for whatever reason.

It is funny, actually. As much as anything it is games like Elite and X-wing and Wing Commander that led me to want to fly (other things led to the Army) and ironically those things may have made it harder to play Elite.

This amuses me.

Thanks for all the help (everyone). I'm going to go try and apply what I have been told and then come back and complain/provide further details when it doesn't work.
 

Suul Vellumcore

Suul Vellumcore
jangove said:
That is: in an a fixed wing aircraft, if I wished to execute (say) a 30-second, 180 degree turn to port... ...I would move the stick hard to the port. At the same time I would pull gently back on the stick, so as to keep my nose up while applying some degree of right rudder to achieve the same end. IE, I would bank to the left.

This does not at all seem to be what is happening here, and I am having a terrible time getting my head around it. There must be a document somewhere describing basically how-to-fly, but damn if I can find it.

Help, Please?
Click to expand...

I don't understand. You have a good understanding of basic flight dynamics, as you explained above. The thing is, what you explained for making a 180 to port is basically exactly what you'd do in ED. I don't see how this can be eluding you, unless you're unwittingly trying to fly with flight assist off... which is a whole diffrent ball game. Are you actually having difficulty, despite your current understanding of flight, with flight assist on?
 

Skizomeuh

Skizomeuh
There's an option that could emulate the behavior you're used to : "Yaw Into Roll" modes in the control configs will apply a slight yaw when you perform a roll. There are two settings for this, "On Initial Roll" and "On Low Roll", try both to see if one fits your needs.

I had to turn it off as it was more disturbing than helpful to me in terms of precision. And a real pain in the asteroid during landing phase.
 

SnowGhost

S
You also have to forget :
-Any thought of 'up' or 'down'. The concept doesn't exist.
-Pitching heavily in a plane is a bad thing. Down means you hit something hard, pitching up means you stall, then pitch down, and hit something hard. Neither pitch direction in space has any such consequence.
 

doctoxic

D
Grav said:
You will keep rolling for as long as your stick is pointing left. Once you're rolled 90 degrees counterclockwise, you can just pitch up 180 degrees by pulling back. If your orientation is important to you once your turn is complete, just roll 90 degrees clockwise again at the end.
Click to expand...

am new to space (or flight) sims so this thread is actually very useful for me and deserves a bump for any new players

currently i suck big time as a pilot and can't even complete the 3rd single player mission :mad:

regarding the quote above i think i am doing this wrong in that i keep on rolling - i think what you are saying is roll 90 degrees and then put the stick back to neutral roll (and FA keeps you in this position), and then pull pack on the stick and that will do your turn?

do you use yaw or thrusters at the same time?

whats the best way to get on someones tail when you are approaching eash other head on?

Cheers

Doc
 
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