CQC How do I get better at CQC?

[CMDR Runcible Shaw]

So, I like CQC, but I'm terrible at it. I've been playing long enough that I'm level 32, but I have a total of 2 wins in deathmatch and k/d ratio of .6. I've watched some youtube videos with tips on CQC, but they don't seem to do me any good. I've tried using flight assist off, but it just ends up sending me all over the place and losing my target. I use boost and vertical thrusters when trying to get behind an opponent but I always seem to get outmaneuvered. Meanwhile, even if I sneak up behind someone and unload on them for a good 30 seconds (doesn't seem to matter the weapon) some other guy comes up behind me and kills me in 10 seconds and I don't get my kill.

So, how do you rack up kills in CQC? What flying techniques and general strategies seem to work for you? What loadouts are the best? Imagine I don't have an in depth technical knowledge of space dogfighting or thrusters physics please.

Edit: I lied, I have exactly one win in deathmatch.

 

[kossack]

Just keep trying. You'll get better even without any help.
To speed up the process - concentrate on power-ups. Learn how to locate them quickly (either by remembering arena layout or learning to target from the right menu).
Another important thing is to use chaff/heat sinks properly (to break the weapons lock) Wait for your shields to go down before using chaff (heat sinks can be used a bit earlier).

It would also help if you show us a video of your fight so we can point out your mistakes...

 

[Artysu]

or watch my live streams...

 

[CMDR Runcible Shaw]

or watch my live streams...

Live streams aren't really helpful unless they're heavily annotated with what exactly you're doing. I mean, I can see other players doing 180 flips and murdering me in 10 seconds, I just don't know how.

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Just keep trying. You'll get better even without any help.
To speed up the process - concentrate on power-ups. Learn how to locate them quickly (either by remembering arena layout or learning to target from the right menu).
Another important thing is to use chaff/heat sinks properly (to break the weapons lock) Wait for your shields to go down before using chaff (heat sinks can be used a bit earlier).

It would also help if you show us a video of your fight so we can point out your mistakes...

My system can't run the game and a recorder at the same time. I'm getting a new system this week, so maybe I'll do that later on. Fun fact, I know there are different CQC maps, but I could not tell you how the layouts differ or where the powerups are. I would need an actual map that I could study. While I'm in the game there's not enough of a reference point for me to get my bearings.

I've been playing CQC since it came out. Enough so to be level (rank?) 32 while usually getting 0-2 kills per match. So I'm not sure more time will help. I think I must be missing something important. Also, waiting for shields to go down before deploying chaff seems like a bad idea. When I do that what happens is I die immediately. (In fact, I just tried this. Computer says "shields offline", hit release chaff button, immediately explode.)

 

[kossack]

Record in 320i (no need for high-res)

And yes, slow CPU clock gives you notable disadvantage. Overclocking even a slow CPU would immediately improve your performance - give it a try if you have this capability.

Overall CQC is a combination of Skills and hardware (other things being equal, improving either one will make your game better)

But to re-iterate, the most important thing is to keep trying.

PS: for those who wonders.. I am trying SC atm (and totally new joystick). Ouch! So many buttons (required to learn to control the ship) But I love the flight dynamics. No more "atmospheric behavior in 'space'"..

 

[CMDR Runcible Shaw]

Record in 320i (no need for high-res)

And yes, slow CPU clock gives you notable disadvantage. Overclocking even a slow CPU would immediately improve your performance - give it a try if you have this capability.

Overall CQC is a combination of Skills and hardware (other things being equal, improving either one will make your game better)

But to re-iterate, the most important thing is to keep trying.

I appreciate it, but I'm really looking for concrete specific examples of what other people do to be successful in CQC. The power up thing is a good example. Although so far when I do that someone else gets it first or I get murdered on the way.

 

[Zeeman]

In the heat of an 8 way deathmatch (or even a team deathmatch) is not the place to be learning FA-OFF.

Instead of playing CQC - spend a few days devoting that time to playing the the tutorials (the ones without combat, but in asteroid fields) and just learn to fly that sidey with FA off.

Once you get the hang of it, then spend some time in the docking tutorial, and instead of docking, head to the corners of the Coriolis station - you'll find that you can fly deep into the station externally, with towers, and trenches covering it's surface, once you can skillfully pilot your way around the station - you're good to get back into combat.

It may seem like it's wasting time, but it's gaining skill, and will mean you level up faster, and improve your K/D ratio because you are now harder to hit, and also you'll be better at keeping your guns on target.

Just quietly, I think the best players are the ones who have truly mastered FA off - but know how to toggle FA-on/off at just the right moment to throw people off.

Z...

 

[CMDR Runcible Shaw]

Int he heat of an 8 way deathmatch (or even a team deathmatch) is not the place to be learning FA-OFF.

Instead of playing CQC - spend a few days devoting that time to playing the the tutorials (the ones without combat, but in steroid fields) and just learn to fly that sidey with FA off.

Once you get the hang of it, then spend some time in the docking tutorial, and instead of docking, head tot he corners of the Coriolis station - you'll find that you can fly deep into the station externally, with towers, and trenches covering it's surface, once you can skillfully pilot your way around the station - you're good to get back into combat.

It may seem like it's wasting time, but it's gaining skill, and will mean you level up faster, and improve your K/D ratio because you are now harder to hit, and also you'll be better at keeping your guns on target.

Just quietly, I think the best players are the once who have truly mastered FA off - but know how to toggleFA-on/off at just the right moment tothrow people off.

Z...

Okay. I'm willing to put in some work to get better, and being able to hug terrain I agree is a good skill to have.

Edit: I don't see how this helps me with actual 1 on 1 dogfighting though.

 

[PhoenicianSon]

I know that the main game does not have same ships as CQC, and the ships in CQC are smaller and quite more maneuverable; however, CQC is dogfighting, and if you want to hone in your skills, try purchasing the smaller more maneuverable ships in the main game and shoot out to a CZ in an Eagle, or try an RES with a lot of asteroids, and then start dogfighting NPCs. I know that there is always going to be a difference, and that the players will fly differently than an NPC and as I mentioned, the smaller ships will handle and be more agile in CQC, but it sounds to me that you need to hone in on your dogfighting skills. If you have the financial means to lose a few Eagles spec'ed out to Grade A in the main game, perhaps start there and then graduate back to CQC.

I focus my gameplay in the main game in combat, and have reached Elite about five months or so ago after starting the game in March or April. The skill that I developed in the main game really translated well into CQC.

I know that this may sound a little goofy, but amazingly enough it also works. In the main game, if you purchase a larger ship with poor maneuverability and become proficient in dogfighting with that ship, it will also translate to better skills with smaller, more agile ships. I realize that sounds backwards, but after purchasing the Anaconda and learning how to chase ships down in that monster with FA-OFF tooling around asteroid fields the majority of the time in boost while staying behind the enemy ship not allowing them to get away from me or turn around to attack me from behind, particularly smaller ships, and after going back into my FDL it increased my dogfighting skills leaps and bounds over and above what they were prior to purchasing and spending a great deal of time in that Anaconda perfecting my flight skills. Thereafter, when purchasing smaller ships I became even more proficient with handling those ships as well. I think part of the tactic and strategy is being able to push that little ship to the brink of its control and still not losing that control, which amazingly enough, teaching yourself to dogfight and maneuver large ships seemingly increases your skill with smaller ships.

 

[CMDR Runcible Shaw]

I know that the main game does not have same ships as CQC, and the ships in CQC are smaller and quite more maneuverable; however, CQC is dogfighting, and if you want to hone in your skills, try purchasing the smaller more maneuverable ships in the main game and shoot out to a CZ in an Eagle, or try an RES with a lot of asteroids, and then start dogfighting NPCs. I know that there is always going to be a difference, and that the players will fly differently than an NPC and as I mentioned, the smaller ships will handle and be more agile in CQC, but it sounds to me that you need to hone in on your dogfighting skills. If you have the financial means to lose a few Eagles spec'ed out to Grade A in the main game, perhaps start there and then graduate back to CQC.

I focus my gameplay in the main game in combat, and have reached Elite about five months or so ago after starting the game in March or April. The skill that I developed in the main game really translated well into CQC.

I know that this may sound a little goofy, but amazingly enough it also works. In the main game, if you purchase a larger ship with poor maneuverability and become proficient in dogfighting with that ship, it will also translate to better skills with smaller, more agile ships. I realize that sounds backwards, but after purchasing the Anaconda and learning how to chase ships down in that monster with FA-OFF tooling around asteroid fields the majority of the time in boost while staying behind the enemy ship not allowing them to get away from me or turn around to attack me from behind, particularly smaller ships, and after going back into my FDL it increased my dogfighting skills leaps and bounds over and above what they were prior to purchasing and spending a great deal of time in that Anaconda perfecting my flight skills. Thereafter, when purchasing smaller ships I became even more proficient with handling those ships as well. I think part of the tactic and strategy is being able to push that little ship to the brink of its control and still not losing that control, which amazingly enough, teaching yourself to dogfight and maneuver large ships seemingly increases your skill with smaller ships.

Thing is I've already done that. The NPC opponents are laughable compared to human opponents in CQC. I can spend all day in an RES or CZ and be fine. Now, I usually do it in a Vulture, so I could try a Cobra or an Eagle, but I'm 20kly out in the main game right now, so that's going to be a while.

===

I think maybe I wasn't specific enough in the main post. What are people who are successful in CQC doing? How are you outmaneuvering opponents. Like, what specific techniques are you using. What loadouts give you an advantage. I'm asking for specific examples of specific techniques, tricks, strategies, and equipment, NOT advice on how to practice.

 

[SushiCW]

Single most important thing for winning is controlling the powerups, especially Weapon Enhance and Stealth. Learn where they are on the map. Be the one that gets them (keep an eye on your radar for when the right white circle reappears). Weapon enhance means more than double damage, and Stealth means people won't even know you're there until it's too late.

Second most important thing is managing your power distribution. When you have 4 pips in SYS, your shields are 250% as strong as when you have 0 pips in SYS. So whenever taking fire, try to have 4 pips in SYS. When moving around the map, have 4 pips in ENG and boost a lot.

As far as upgrades go: Reverse Resistance shields on the Condor are an excellent choice against the 95% of pilots using lasers. The ENG-based power distributor is great for letting you boost more often (in both the Condor and Imperial Fighter), and helps with both escapes and quickly moving around the map (powerup control). Not everyone uses it, but I swear by it and feel crippled without.

Fight dirty. Avoid head-to-head fights. Shoot people in the back while they're busy with each other.

Remember that when you boost, your turn rate is increased. When you turn FA off, you can maintain a turn in progress without losing turn rate even after the boost expires. So the fastest way to flip your ship 180 degrees is to boost, pitch up/down, and toggle FA off (until your nose is back where you want it).

Sometimes, though, you're better off putting your throttle in full reverse instead, to try to get the guy behind you to overshoot.

 

[suburbanguerilla]

seems i have to spread my rep around before i give Sushi any more . ^^^ What Sushi said , PIPS . POWER UPS , BOOST TURN , DIRTY . with that sorted you can hold your own , the rest is imagination .

oh and just in case
someone pulls cannons , learn to fly the backward spiral . thruster and turn left or right while in reverse .

 

[dutchy2000]

Here is a hint from a nub myself. Don't bother with FA off, it makes reacquiring your target once you have turned around a lot harder. In fact any perceived advantage by this FA off non-sense is lost due to this alone. If you have an input device with enough buttons make sure you have one button to toggle reverse on and off. I have a HOTAS and my pinky finger toggle switch is set to reverse. Now imagine this scenario which is quite common, you just destroyed your umpteenth target, shields are down to 1 and a half rings, and you see on your rader the next enemy barreling down on your position. Here is what I do:

1. Turn towards the target, so you are in a head to head. Once you get into guns range start shooting while at the same time doing a counter clock wise downward barrel roll.
2. While you are at the bottom of the roll, you should be hard for the enemy to see as their dashboard is in the way (good tip always try to manouver below the enemy instead of above them, they can't really see you except on radar). Toggle the reverse and you will slow down immensely, this will cause the enemy to overshoot you, while you are in a great position to turn behind them.
3. When they overshoot release the reverse and boost turn right behind them.
4. Destroy the boogey.

Well 4 is obviously the hardest part, but 1-3 should give you a good advantage in doing so. Also when in a tight turning fight with someone use your reverse it will make it much easier to get your guns on people.

 

[Sir.Tj]

Some great tips here....

One from me.

As said use the powerups and learn the map i.e Asteria Point has some very useful shortcuts and hidey holes for the new player.

Reverse can be very useful, if you have a CMDR on your 6 slamming into revers and using your thrusters can really confuse them if they are not expecting it.

*Scribbles down a few ready for next CQC session*

 

[NeilF]

So, I like CQC, but I'm terrible at it. I've been playing long enough that I'm level 32, but I have a total of 2 wins in deathmatch and k/d ratio of .6. I've watched some youtube videos with tips on CQC, but they don't seem to do me any good. I've tried using flight assist off, but it just ends up sending me all over the place and losing my target. I use boost and vertical thrusters when trying to get behind an opponent but I always seem to get outmaneuvered. Meanwhile, even if I sneak up behind someone and unload on them for a good 30 seconds (doesn't seem to matter the weapon) some other guy comes up behind me and kills me in 10 seconds and I don't get my kill.

So, how do you rack up kills in CQC? What flying techniques and general strategies seem to work for you? What loadouts are the best? Imagine I don't have an in depth technical knowledge of space dogfighting or thrusters physics please.

Edit: I lied, I have exactly one win in deathmatch.

Note: I only play(ed) Team Deathmatch...

Learn what works, and what doesn't =- In my case I found a set of tactics that meant I knew what areas to try and keep local too, what to do if I needed to flee, when to attack, how to use/help team mates, and most importantly when not too attack etc (ie: try not to leave yourself out in the open).

Learn what ships work when. Personally I always found speed suited my style, so I went for the faster ships.

Learn where the power ups are and use them.

If you can automate/control power settings that's also useful, such that you can flick between full power to attack, and full power defense (eg: 0-2-4 and 2-4-0). In my case with Voice Attack "flee" sets my engines to full, and shields to 2, and weapons to 0. ie: To get away and recharge ASAP.

I got to a KD ratio of about 10 with this approach, before getting bored...

 

[Zeeman]

Okay. I'm willing to put in some work to get better, and being able to hug terrain I agree is a good skill to have.

Edit: I don't see how this helps me with actual 1 on 1 dogfighting though.

The player who is better able to control their craft, is better able to point their guns at the other guy and blow them up.

Worry about tactics when you really know how to fly.

Z...

 

[Frenotx]

What is your control setup?

 

[Calv45]

Use the installations for cover when fleeing. Apart from flying close, fast and hugging corners ,hide in them. There are so many nooks and crannies you can park your ship in and watch your pursuer fly right by unaware while your shields recover.Keep an eye on your radar.If you can see them they can probably see you.

 

[amigacooke]

Practice, practice, practice.

PS I had my first go about a week ago. I was dreadful

 

[CMDR Runcible Shaw]

Some great tips here....

One from me.

As said use the powerups and learn the map i.e Asteria Point has some very useful shortcuts and hidey holes for the new player.

Reverse can be very useful, if you have a CMDR on your 6 slamming into revers and using your thrusters can really confuse them if they are not expecting it.

*Scribbles down a few ready for next CQC session*

Slamming into reverse is my favorite and only move. I used the exact same technique in Goldeneye. Drove my friends crazy.

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Here is a hint from a nub myself. Don't bother with FA off, it makes reacquiring your target once you have turned around a lot harder. In fact any perceived advantage by this FA off non-sense is lost due to this alone. If you have an input device with enough buttons make sure you have one button to toggle reverse on and off. I have a HOTAS and my pinky finger toggle switch is set to reverse. Now imagine this scenario which is quite common, you just destroyed your umpteenth target, shields are down to 1 and a half rings, and you see on your rader the next enemy barreling down on your position. Here is what I do:

1. Turn towards the target, so you are in a head to head. Once you get into guns range start shooting while at the same time doing a counter clock wise downward barrel roll.
2. While you are at the bottom of the roll, you should be hard for the enemy to see as their dashboard is in the way (good tip always try to manouver below the enemy instead of above them, they can't really see you except on radar). Toggle the reverse and you will slow down immensely, this will cause the enemy to overshoot you, while you are in a great position to turn behind them.
3. When they overshoot release the reverse and boost turn right behind them.
4. Destroy the boogey.

Well 4 is obviously the hardest part, but 1-3 should give you a good advantage in doing so. Also when in a tight turning fight with someone use your reverse it will make it much easier to get your guns on people.

Interesting, but I'm a little confused about your terminology. I thought a barrel roll was rolling the ship along it's long axis (front to back axis). How can you be at the "bottom" of a barrel roll? Second thing, what do you mean by "toggle reverse". This is a thing I'm not familiar with, unless you mean just putting the throttle in reverse. I have a stick and throttle setup (cheap T Flight HOTAS X).

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The player who is better able to control their craft, is better able to point their guns at the other guy and blow them up.

Worry about tactics when you really know how to fly.

Z...

I have no problem navigating terrain. But navigating terrain doesn't necessitate quick turns or outmaneuvering enemies. I can keep my nose pointed at an asteroid while boosting around it but that doesn't seem to translate to dogfighting.

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What is your control setup?

As said above, I have a T Flight HOTAS X. I have voice attack if I need it. I don't use keyboard and mouse because I cannot control my ship with the mouse.