How do jump range limitations make the game better? Anaconda's unrealistic hull mass.

[ManRightChea]

I have had this discussion numerous times with my alliance/wing. How does limiting the jump range of combat ships make the game better? Really..

The Anaconda has a hull mass of 400 tons, despite being only slightly smaller than the Corvette and Cutter. It has the same hull mass as a Clipper, despite being the fourth or fifth largest ship in the game. It has a better DPS than the Corvette, more maneuverability than the Cutter and because of its unreasonably low hull mass, can achieve better jump ranges than both. It is the ship that we all pretty much have to purchase.. and owning a couple does not change how I feel about it. People should be able to enjoy their Corvettes and Cutters more, and visit remote locations in the galaxy without having to pull their hair out.

The Anaconda is the one ship allowed to be unbalanced. Which brings me to another point, how does limiting the jump ranges of combat oriented ships specifically make the game better? Where does the combat bias come from? If a person wants to fly a Corvette everywhere because it is their favorite ship, why must the game be more tedious for that person? Really there is no benefit to the stinginess of jump range that combat ships are targeted with. It basically limits fun factor for no real reason.

Especially the likes of the FDL and Vulture. Combat ships are either given unrealistically heavy hull mass, poor fuel tank volume, under-sized FSD or a combination of multiple. I have never understood the bias that allows multi-purpose ships to have superior DPS AND ease of mobility.

I do not feel that stifling jump range makes the game better. I think people should be able to fly any ship they want pretty much anywhere. It should not take somebody that has a favorite ship that happens to be combat oriented hundreds or thousands of more jumps to reach the same areas that some ships can reach far easier.

I know that Frontier has collectively turned a blind eye towards the Anaconda but why not buff others? Every combat ship should be buffed by no less than 10 to 15 light years in my opinion.

 

[bicarbon8]

I have had this discussion numerous times with my alliance/wing. How does limiting the jump range of combat ships make the game better? Really..

The Anaconda has a hull mass of 400 tons, despite being only slightly smaller than the Corvette and Cutter. It has the same hull mass as a Clipper, despite being the fourth or fifth largest ship in the game. It has a better DPS than the Corvette, more maneuverability than the Cutter and because of its unreasonably low hull mass, can achieve better jump ranges than both. It is the ship that we all pretty much have to purchase.. and owning a couple does not change how I feel about it. People should be able to enjoy their Corvettes and Cutters more, and visit remote locations in the galaxy without having to pull their hair out.

The Anaconda is the one ship allowed to be unbalanced. Which brings me to another point, how does limiting the jump ranges of combat oriented ships specifically make the game better? Where does the combat bias come from? If a person wants to fly a Corvette everywhere because it is their favorite ship, why must the game be more tedious for that person? Really there is no benefit to the stinginess of jump range that combat ships are targeted with. It basically limits fun factor for no real reason.

Especially the likes of the FDL and Vulture. Combat ships are either given unrealistically heavy hull mass, poor fuel tank volume, under-sized FSD or a combination of multiple. I have never understood the bias that allows multi-purpose ships to have superior DPS AND ease of mobility.

I do not feel that stifling jump range makes the game better. I think people should be able to fly any ship they want pretty much anywhere. It should not take somebody that has a favorite ship that happens to be combat oriented hundreds or thousands of more jumps to reach the same areas that some ships can reach far easier.

I know that Frontier has collectively turned a blind eye towards the Anaconda but why not buff others? Every combat ship should be buffed by no less than 10 to 15 light years in my opinion.

If FDev were to equalise the jump ranges of all ships it would at least bring plausibility to the NPC's flying a FDL that can somehow keep up with your DBX when trying to interdict you for "all that tasty cargo"

 

[stumblingdrunk]

I completely agree with you on this and would be happy with even a minor buff to bring the vette in line with the cutter/conda, unfortunately Sandro didnt agree when he answered it in a livestream so I think we are stuck with it. Apparently part of FDs thinking is that if the ship is popular then it doesn't require a buff, whilst carefully ignoring that the vette (and cutter) takes so long to unlock you almost feel compelled to fly it!

 

[Enrogue]

Guess it's a matter of contextual style as well. They are the essence of the game, the ships and the differences in all aspects of them.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Don't worry guys, I got this.

There's a group of fun hating players in this game. Frontier does everything this fun hating group wants. This group likes nothing more than depriving other people of fun. Including limiting FSD range of combat ships.

You think I'm talking rubbish? Wait till this thread reaches page 10

 

[Shinji Ikari]

Don't worry guys, I got this.

There's a group of fun hating players in this game. Frontier does everything this fun hating group wants. This group likes nothing more than depriving other people of fun. Including limiting FSD range of combat ships.

You think I'm talking rubbish? Wait till this thread reaches page 10

Real question. Does jump range equates to fun? If so then I don't get why that's not my case.

 

[Majic-12]

Combat ships have a shorter jump range because guns are bad, mmmkay?

 

[Mengy]

The Anaconda is just broken overpowered, plain and simple. If you compare every other ship in the game to each other while ignoring the Anaconda then ship balance actually looks pretty solid overall. Maybe cargo ships when empty should jump a tad more, possibly, but everything else seems to balance out pretty good. It’s only when you throw the Anaconda into the mix with it’s magically low hull mass that ship balance seems out of whack.

The solution is to nerf the Anaconda by adding a few hundred tons to it’s hull. That will never happen though because so many people fly the ship (due to it being broken). So either all other ships can be rebalanced (buffed) to sit well alongside the Anaconda, or the ship balance can just remain the way it is and the Anaconda will always for the rest of the game’s lifetime be an overpowered unbalanced supership.

Either way, people will be upset. There is no easy solution anymore, it’s gone on for too long now.

 

[Shadowdancer]

How would big long jump ranges for everyone make the game better? I've yet to hear a convincing argument that would justify sacrificing the little remaining sense of scale.

A little napkin maths would, by the way, indicate that the Anaconda may well float in Earth's atmosphere if you pumped it down to a vacuum.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

The Anaconda is just broken overpowered, plain and simple. If you compare every other ship in the game to each other while ignoring the Anaconda then ship balance actually looks pretty solid overall. Maybe cargo ships when empty should jump a tad more, possibly, but everything else seems to balance out pretty good. It’s only when you throw the Anaconda into the mix with it’s magically low hull mass that ship balance seems out of whack.

The solution is to nerf the Anaconda by adding a few hundred tons to it’s hull. That will never happen though because so many people fly the ship (due to it being broken). So either all other ships can be rebalanced (buffed) to sit well alongside the Anaconda, or the ship balance can just remain the way it is and the Anaconda will always for the rest of the game’s lifetime be an overpowered unbalanced supership.

Either way, people will be upset. There is no easy solution anymore, it’s gone on for too long now.

This are the consequences of bad desing. Maybe nerfing its combat capabilities would be an alternative but no real solution will come without a huge uproar.

 

[Mohrgan]

If people can't see the value of making decisions based on jump range, and keeping a real sense of scale in Elite, then I don't expect anyone posting for either side to make a difference to those of the opposition. It comes down to a fundamental view on what they are looking for in the game. I find the limitations part of managing your Commander in the vastness of the Milky Way. But, I don;t expect to make an impression on those that don't.

I can only hope that FD keeps the perspective I have enjoyed, and keep Jump Range and it's mechanics as they are. There are a number of ways to increase jump ranges built into the game already. But, as we can see, it is never enough.

 

[Stealthie]

Seems like a no-brainer to me.

If combat ships had the same jump-range as other ships, everybody would travel everywhere in combat ships and all the other ships would be redundant.

 

[Good Death]

Don't worry guys, I got this.

There's a group of fun hating players in this game. Frontier does everything this fun hating group wants. This group likes nothing more than depriving other people of fun. Including limiting FSD range of combat ships.

You think I'm talking rubbish? Wait till this thread reaches page 10

Well page 10 page 1. Typo right?

 

[Denneb]

I have had this discussion numerous times with my alliance/wing. How does limiting the jump range of combat ships make the game better? Really..

The Anaconda has a hull mass of 400 tons, despite being only slightly smaller than the Corvette and Cutter. It has the same hull mass as a Clipper, despite being the fourth or fifth largest ship in the game. It has a better DPS than the Corvette, more maneuverability than the Cutter and because of its unreasonably low hull mass, can achieve better jump ranges than both. It is the ship that we all pretty much have to purchase.. and owning a couple does not change how I feel about it. People should be able to enjoy their Corvettes and Cutters more, and visit remote locations in the galaxy without having to pull their hair out.

The Anaconda is the one ship allowed to be unbalanced. Which brings me to another point, how does limiting the jump ranges of combat oriented ships specifically make the game better? Where does the combat bias come from? If a person wants to fly a Corvette everywhere because it is their favorite ship, why must the game be more tedious for that person? Really there is no benefit to the stinginess of jump range that combat ships are targeted with. It basically limits fun factor for no real reason.

Especially the likes of the FDL and Vulture. Combat ships are either given unrealistically heavy hull mass, poor fuel tank volume, under-sized FSD or a combination of multiple. I have never understood the bias that allows multi-purpose ships to have superior DPS AND ease of mobility.

I do not feel that stifling jump range makes the game better. I think people should be able to fly any ship they want pretty much anywhere. It should not take somebody that has a favorite ship that happens to be combat oriented hundreds or thousands of more jumps to reach the same areas that some ships can reach far easier.

I know that Frontier has collectively turned a blind eye towards the Anaconda but why not buff others? Every combat ship should be buffed by no less than 10 to 15 light years in my opinion.

You know what? I've been having the same question for quite a few years now, along with some friends who consider ourselves sane and reasonable. Didn't ever bother to ask it in the forums because I've seen numerous times exactly what Ziggy Stardust described a few posts above...
If there is ever a discussion/poll about it, know that I will support this idea with all my heart. But frankly, I dont see it happening in this, otherwise fabulous game

 

[GG7]

I've been screaming for a Corvette jump range buff since the damned thing came out! -- Even before engineers arrived on the scene, the Vette was hobbled by one of the lowest jump ranges in the game.

A fully engineered maxed out A rated FSD still can't get you into the low 30s with any decent weapons loadout. I have yet to read a convincing argument for why this makes sense. Not when all the other ships in the game are taken into account.

It makes no sense, and no amount of apologizing over the current spec is going to change that for the majority of Corvette pilots out there.

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

surely if low hull mass anaconda should be wildly vulnerable to damage both internally and externally compared to cutters and corvettes? low hull mass should equal low integrity - unless the manufacturer has discovered and patented a secret alloy.

 

[GG7]

If people can't see the value of making decisions based on jump range, and keeping a real sense of scale in Elite, then I don't expect anyone posting for either side to make a difference to those of the opposition. It comes down to a fundamental view on what they are looking for in the game. I find the limitations part of managing your Commander in the vastness of the Milky Way. But, I don;t expect to make an impression on those that don't.

I can only hope that FD keeps the perspective I have enjoyed, and keep Jump Range and it's mechanics as they are. There are a number of ways to increase jump ranges built into the game already. But, as we can see, it is never enough.

You could quadruple the current jump ranges in the game, and it would still take an eternity to reach many points in the galaxy. The entire premise of limiting jump ranges is absurd and myopic.

Not all of us have unlimited time to spend jumping and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping.

Its ridiculous to claim that increasing the jump ranges of some of the currently hobbled ships by 50% would have any significant effect on anything. Other than vastly improving the ED experience for thousands of players who don't consider jumping 200-300 times to get somewhere new a fun past time.

If you and your pals don't like those improvements, then you have a very simple choice... DON'T USE THEM! Use B grade modules and other heavy junk bolted onto your ship to keep your jump ranges in the "I can't take this anymore!" range.

Any changes made to improve jump ranges always provide those opposed with a choice not to take advantage of those increases. The same can not be said for those who are currently stuck with a status quo they don't agree with.

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

You could quadruple the current jump ranges in the game, and it would still take an eternity to reach many points in the galaxy. Your entire premise is absurd and myopic.

Not all of us have unlimited time to spend jumping and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping.

Its ridiculous to claim that increasing the jump ranges of some of the currently hobbled ships by 50% would have any significant effect on anything.

If you and your pals don't like those improvements, then you have a very simple choice... DON'T USE THEM! Use B grade modules and other heavy junk bolted onto your ship to keep your jump ranges in the "I can't take this anymore" range.

But forcing the rest of us to abide by such a narrow minded view of the game is hardly going to make you many friends around here.

disagree because your logic leads to no place in the bubble being more than one jump away in the end. people will always push if they get an increase.

also i am sure the armed forces of the superpowers have much mor erange in their ships - the reason civs are allowed to buy ex military craft is because obsolete, and because cant match up to current military vessels.

 

[Straha Yeagar]

You could quadruple the current jump ranges in the game, and it would still take an eternity to reach many points in the galaxy. The entire premise of limiting jump ranges is absurd and myopic.

Not all of us have unlimited time to spend jumping and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping, and jumping.

Its ridiculous to claim that increasing the jump ranges of some of the currently hobbled ships by 50% would have any significant effect on anything. Other than vastly improving the ED experience for thousands of players who don't consider jumping a fun past time.

If you and your pals don't like those improvements, then you have a very simple choice... DON'T USE THEM! Use B grade modules and other heavy junk bolted onto your ship to keep your jump ranges in the "I can't take this anymore" range.

But forcing the rest of us to abide by such a narrow minded view of the game is hardly going to make you many friends around here.

Just like I think there should be guns that allow one shot kills because not all of us have time to spend going around shooting and shooting, and etc for a lot of shootings. And those who don't like fast combat, they can just use pulse lasers for the full effect...

 

[57thStIncident]

I think players should have to make choices, sort of like choosing a pickup truck vs. sports car, and I think this does contribute to gameplay and balance in general. I don't think it's any surprise that most CMDR's wish their ships of choice were even better.

Combat ships throughout the game already have big advantages in terms of DPS and shield/armor strength .. so if they aren't as jumpy or can't carry as much cargo then that seems fair.

Combat ships are also gifted higher mass lock factors that help them be predators rather than prey. When flying trade ships, I hate that a 1000T Type 9 is mass-locked by a 300T multirole Python or a 'large' Type 7 is mass-locked by a 'small' Vulture with ~1/2 the weight.

Anaconda is an outlier though. It was pretty much explicitly gifted by FDev ridiculously low weight (= jump range, and also the ability to run a smaller shield for increased capacity) for its capabilities whether for combat or hauling.

What would be fair is nerfing the Anaconda a bit but I'm sure that idea is pretty much a non-starter.

The Cutter and Corvette do have better shields than the Anaconda so at least there's that. And the new T9 buff at least helps give bulk traders a reason to fly something other than an Anaconda or Cutter. I wonder if the Corvette perhaps should have slightly better DPS capabilities.

The Anaconda isn't alone. Multirole ships seem to be a bit abnormally blessed in some other cases too -- Python is also certainly an outlier and has no real peer among medium ships and even 'small' large ships (T7, Clipper, Orca, etc.). Among small ships the Cobra III seems to have "magical" speed and capacity.