How often DO you get a ship destroyed?

[Stealthie]

As per the thread title.

I was just wondering if, perhaps, insurance might be a good way to help reduce ganking, make combat "meaningful" and help reduce exploits.

If the game was set up so that the cost of ship-insurance went up from a base value of 5% to a maximum of, say, 50% depending on how often your ships were destroyed then it might help deter a variety of griefing/exploiting.

Anything up to, say, 1 rebuy per 50 hours of play (or whatever turns out to be "reasonable") would incur no increase from the base value of 5%.
After that, every additional rebuy would incur a 5% increase to the cost of your rebuys which would REMAIN in place for a month.
Once your insurance cost had increased, it'd apply to the rebuy of any ship for a month.

So, if you're station-ramming, or Sideyciding at Quince, the rebuy on your Cr30k ship would gradually increase from Cr1,500 to Cr15,000 (which might not seem like a big deal) but it'd also mean that if your Cr200m Python did get destroyed during that month then it'd cost you Cr100m for the rebuy.

Conversely, if you're a newbie who's just a bit careless, your rebuy cost might go up from 5% to, say, 15% or 20% for a month, which isn't the end of the world.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

As per the thread title.

I was just wondering if, perhaps, insurance might be a good way to help reduce ganking, make combat "meaningful" and help reduce exploits.

If the game was set up so that the cost of ship-insurance went up from a base value of 5% to a maximum of, say, 50% depending on how often your ships were destroyed then it might help deter a variety of griefing/exploiting.

Anything up to, say, 1 rebuy per 50 hours of play (or whatever turns out to be "reasonable") would incur no increase from the base value of 5%.
After that, every additional rebuy would incur a 5% increase to the cost of your rebuys which would REMAIN in place for a month.
Once your insurance cost had increased, it'd apply to the rebuy of any ship for a month.

So, if you're station-ramming, or Sideyciding at Quince, the rebuy on your Cr30k ship would gradually increase from Cr1,500 to Cr15,000 (which might not seem like a big deal) but it'd also mean that if your Cr200m Python did get destroyed during that month then it'd cost you Cr100m for the rebuy.

So if you get ganked a lot, or have fun blowing up and be blown up in combat CGs you actually get punished for that? Doesn't sound right.

 

[Whitehair]

Every second glass of wine.

 

[Stealthie]

So if you get ganked a lot, or have fun blowing up and be blown up in combat CGs you actually get punished for that? Doesn't sound right.

Do you "get ganked a lot"?
I don't.
About half a dozen of my 40 rebuys are the result of "griefing" and, even so, I lose a ship roughly every 80 hours, on average.

As for "punishing people who enjoy combat", I guess that people just need to remember that combat in ED is intended to be "meaningful".
It'd just be up to people to ask themselves whether the combat they ARE doing really is worth a potential increased expenditure.

 

[Herbrand]

When I do PvP, occasionally, or when I do stupid things with newly bought ships.
When I engineered my Cutter I travelled all the way back from Maia to Eravate, and managed to explode in front of everyone against the mailslot grid.

I'm sure the station flight controllers are still laughing.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Do you "get ganked a lot"?
I don't.
About half a dozen of my 40 rebuys are the result of "griefing" and, even so, I lose a ship roughly every 80 hours, on average.

As for "punishing people who enjoy combat", I guess that people just need to remember that combat in ED is intended to be "meaningful".
It'd just be up to people to ask themselves whether the combat they ARE doing really is worth a potential increased expenditure.

And cranking up the rebuy cost for having fun is "meaningful"? Sorry, but I think that "meaningful" phrase is overused. There is nothing meaningful with an upkeep system for gameplay. There is nothing meaningful with the rebuy cost either - it's just an annoying side mechanic in my eyes.

 

[Kingtutuk]

As per the thread title.

I was just wondering if, perhaps, insurance might be a good way to help reduce ganking, make combat "meaningful" and help reduce exploits.

If the game was set up so that the cost of ship-insurance went up from a base value of 5% to a maximum of, say, 50% depending on how often your ships were destroyed then it might help deter a variety of griefing/exploiting.

Anything up to, say, 1 rebuy per 50 hours of play (or whatever turns out to be "reasonable") would incur no increase from the base value of 5%.
After that, every additional rebuy would incur a 5% increase to the cost of your rebuys which would REMAIN in place for a month.
Once your insurance cost had increased, it'd apply to the rebuy of any ship for a month.

So, if you're station-ramming, or Sideyciding at Quince, the rebuy on your Cr30k ship would gradually increase from Cr1,500 to Cr15,000 (which might not seem like a big deal) but it'd also mean that if your Cr200m Python did get destroyed during that month then it'd cost you Cr100m for the rebuy.

Conversely, if you're a newbie who's just a bit careless, your rebuy cost might go up from 5% to, say, 15% or 20% for a month, which isn't the end of the world.

I think you need to re-think your post.
If there was a way of getting the cost of rebuy off the commander who "Ganked" you then yes, a fine to the "Ganker" payable to you would be appropriate. However, implementing that in game would be awkward if not hard as it could adversely affect players genuinely pirating, which most "Gankers" claim they are doing.

 

[Riverside]

I'm in favour of death having more consequence and I like the idea of the players rebuy being affected by the recent claims history but the game is already punishing in this respect so I'd be happier with a no claims bonus where infrequent deaths reward (positive reinforcement) rather than having the rebuy cost increase from it's default position. It's just semantics though & some players will always see the glass half empty.

I think this is well into the realms of the proposed Karma system.

When I have lost hulls it's generally been in clumps, where I'm learning how to do a new thing. I'm not sure an extra concern would help me to learn more quickly, I can think of several pretty common situations where this kind of change would significantly change gameplay (consensual PvP in particular) without offering much or any encouragement to play with others & risk being ganked.

 

[duckofdeath]

Never! \o/

On a more serious note, inflating overall rebuy cost is definitely counter-productive against gankers. That would literally be a griefing-incentive.

 

[Vasco Sapien]

Death by game mechanics is extremely rare.

Most of my deaths have been during PvP encounters out by pleiades, but i always hedge my bets when i visit that area of space.

Rebuys are not a penalty for death as far as im concerned, If you play smart its only really random events that get you and a single rebuy in this games Credit soup isnt a big deal.

 

[UnhappyDev]

Not very often. But I'm a complete coward, and flee at the first sign of trouble.

Anyone want to wing up

 

[Han Brannigan]

have some +rep TS (sorry seems I can't rep you atm ) - however do understand that ppl would get even more mad at percieved ganking. I'd exclude deaths caused by players from the progression of rebuy costs - if they fire the first shot.
For PvP there shopuld be a possibility to engage in a concious PvP mode/are whatever where rebuy cost progression would also not go up.

 

[Morbad]

Not counting clear bugs, or SRV losses before those stopped counting as insurance claims, I see the rebuy screen about once every four-hundred hours of play.

I'm an Open-only player, and my CMDR is frequently engaged in hostilities with other CMDRs. I never cheat (willfully disconnect) or cheese (log out of a dangerous situation) my way out of ship destruction, but I do try to portray a character who only relies on the ejection seat as a last resort, so I don't willfully sacrifice my vessels, except in extreme situations. My CMDR has no compunctions about making a run for it if things turn against him.

Anyway, I'm highly in favor or a system that would deincentivize repeatedly losing ships. Jumpgate, for example, had an insurance rating that went down every time you lost a vessel, meaning that less and less of the value of the ship was returned to you. This rating would gradually normalize if you stopped losing ships.

There is nothing meaningful with an upkeep system for gameplay. There is nothing meaningful with the rebuy cost either - it's just an annoying side mechanic in my eyes.

Anything that increases plausibility is meaningful in my eyes, and there are few things less plausible than CMDRs being habitually reckless with their lives and livelihoods.

 

[Han Brannigan]

Anything that increases plausibility is meaningful in my eyes, and there are few things less plausible than CMDRs being habitually reckless with their lives and livelihoods.

Exactly!

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Not counting clear bugs, or SRV losses before those stopped counting as insurance claims, I see the rebuy screen about once every four-hundred hours of play.

I'm an Open-only player, and my CMDR is frequently engaged in hostilities with other CMDRs. I never cheat (willfully disconnect) or cheese (log out of a dangerous situation) my way out of ship destruction, but I do try to portray a character who only relies on the ejection seat as a last resort, so I don't willfully sacrifice my vessels, except in extreme situations. My CMDR has no compunctions about making a run for it if things turn against him.

Anyway, I'm highly in favor or a system that would deincentivize repeatedly losing ships. Jumpgate, for example, had an insurance rating that went down every time you lost a vessel, meaning that less and less of the value of the ship was returned to you. This rating would gradually normalize if you stopped losing ships.



Anything that increases plausibility is meaningful in my eyes, and there are few things less plausible than CMDRs being habitually reckless with their lives and livelihoods.

Plausibility is already out the window when you respawn in your ship. Plausibility took a nap when the engineer mods are retained on respawn.
Unless you tie respawn cost to a percentage of cash held / total assets owned any rebuy tweaking will remain meaningless for long time players, cash exploiters and only affect new players and filthy casuls.

 

[Stealthie]

FWIW, I'd certainly be happy to modify the original concept to create exceptions for, perhaps, losses that occur in anarchies and losses that occur when all ships involved in a loss have "report crimes" turned off.
That might create a nice incentive for PvP to occur in anarchies, thus making them more dangerous too.

Just occurred to me that it might be a good way to deter people from frivolously getting ships destroyed.

 

[Han Brannigan]

FWIW, I'd certainly be happy to modify the original concept to create exceptions for, perhaps, losses that occur in anarchies and losses that occur when all ships involved in a loss have "report crimes" turned off.

Just occurred to me that it might be a good way to deter people from frivolously getting ships destroyed.

Good Idea and now I should be able to rep you again.. pff how much rep do I have to spread b4 I can rep you again? Stop making sense is what IO am saying...

 

[Karlos Ploryman]

Hello OP,

with all respect to your idea, I do not agree with it. Rebuy cost is imho quite fine the way it is now.

I loose a ship usually due to my own errors (especially if I fly drunk or intoxicated) :-D It happens not too often - maybe every 50-100 hours of gameplay.

These days, I have a healthy bank account balance, so rebuys do not threaten me much, but in the beginning every rebuy was a serious hit to my advancement towards my goals...

Karlos

 

[[VR] Frank_G]

17 times in 3 years.

4 of them due to the AI superweapon madness bug in 2.1 and 3 times on day one, when people in their beta Anacondas found it funny to crash a first time players Sidewinder on first take off.

So 10 actual deaths that were my fault, or could have been avoided by skill.
Among them 3 Vipers in RESites while flying backwards during combat and crashing into asteroids
The other 7 were lost in PvE and PvP, mostly stealth ship combat.

Best tip to avoid the rebuy screen: Fight until it is time to run.

 

[Han Brannigan]

These days, I have a healthy bank account balance, so rebuys do not threaten me much, but in the beginning every rebuy was a serious hit to my advancement towards my goals...

Thing is in the early days 1.x making money ( aside from exploits ) was much more difficult so buybacks where relatively more substantial. I used to make 1 million per hour in a T6 through total grinding now I can make 10 millions / hr in the same ship while fooling around...