How Opals have nearly made space great again

[Powderpanic]

Congrats on the new patch. Apart from the PVP mass lock bug and the server stability, it has been a pretty well received.
You guys nearly got it so right… It's nearly there…
For the first time in a while, there is a real buzz about space careers. This hasn’t happened since the early days and if you make a few game redirections soon, you could be onto something great.

Let me explain.

For your sandbox to function, there needs to be a circle of life. *Nants ingonyama bagithi Baba*

In the early days this worked great for 3 of the 5 main roles ( Trader, Criminal, White knight, Explorer, Miner )

Traders made the money.
Pirates stole the money.
Bounty hunters made the money from killing pirates.
Explorers honked and took screen grabs.
Miners wondered why Braben hated them so much.

No one knew about high wake, so this worked well. ( But that is for another thread )
The cost of a ship felt real and for the vast majority, the money making exploits were unknown and even the cash cows involved an amount of work t,o make you appreciate a rebuy.

In essence you had balance

Now this has steadily broken with each patch and each badly tested release to the point that credits for like rain. Sadly, you can literally go from nothing to Elite trader billionaire within a couple of days.

Negativity aside.

The mining Opals has made space great again.

Miners have something to do and are very highly rewarded for their time.
Pirates have really valuable targets to go after, that they do not want to explode because the rewards are worth taking smaller chunks.
White knights now have ships to defend and criminals to chase off.

Very similar to the good old days and for the first the time in a long time, there is a real buzz and some community in Open.

So what needs to be improved? I know you are eager for my insight.

Traders need a way to trade these new found space wealth’s, this brings traders and trade ships back into existing.
The billionaire players needs credit sinks. Simple as that.
This new found circle can only exist as long as all parts have a reason to do so. Otherwise, as examples: once you have a miner with 10billion in assets and every ship under the sun, he/she/zi is pretty much done. Billionaire criminals and even the WhiteKnights will turn to ganking. Toxicity returns.

The early kick starter promises and Braben blog promises have already been ripped to shreds, so now is the time to make the moves to keep the momentum going.

Now is not the time for space legs
( Also please remove engineers )

Powerpanic
The Voice of Griefing

 

[777Driver]

Very similar to the good old days and for the first the time in a long time, there is a real buzz and some community in Open.

How long have you been around for? Don't remember seeing you back in the good old days lol

 

[Bigmaec]

*snip*

I... uh... mostly have to agree to you. Strange
(And that mass-lock bug is still there? Was busy mining and exploring)

 

[Robert Maynard]

Billionaire criminals and even the WhiteKnights will turn to ganking.

A subset of them may - not everyone is prone to that kind of behaviour when they get bored.

Toxicity returns.

Has it ever been eradicated from the game?

 

[Julio Montega]

I... uh... mostly have to agree to you. Strange
(And that mass-lock bug is still there? Was busy mining and exploring)

Mass lock bug is there, FSD reboot time after interdiction sometimes is not applied,
hatchbreakers sporadically do not make the target jettison, although it has cargo,
cargo decays too fast and despawns at 12km and i heard reports of interdicted
targets not spawning in the 'dictors instance.

It is true that the mining rush made piracy interesting and worth the time,
even if you just grab 4 tons of VOPs it is worth the work.

 

[777Driver]

even if you just grab 4 tons of VOPs it is worth the work.

The problem with piracy is that it is completely pointless, has been like that since the game released. The amount of times I was pulled out warp, thinking why doesn't this guy just buy a freighter and earn 100x more than the scraps he is asking for. Same deal with mining, a pirate is better off just buying a cheap ship and doing the mining.

4 tons (around 6 mill) is rubbish for the effort involved.

It is a shame, piracy was going to be my main profession. Devs should really think about giving piracy and trade a big overhaul

 

[Bigmaec]

Mass lock bug is there, FSD reboot time after interdiction sometimes is not applied,
hatchbreakers sporadically do not make the target jettison, although it has cargo,
cargo decays too fast and despawns at 12km and i heard reports of interdicted
targets not spawning in the 'dictors instance.

It is true that the mining rush made piracy interesting and worth the time,
even if you just grab 4 tons of VOPs it is worth the work.

Lol. I noticed the mass lock bug on day one of beta, dunno which CMDR interdicted me that day in Shinrarta. He told me he made a bug report.
Haven't low-waked since then. The hatchbreaker bug I saw in Vins Clip, the rest is not new, isn't it?
Working as intended

edit_ @777 it's not about the profit, it's about the fun. Ah scratch that, it IS all about the profit

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

A subset of them may - not everyone is prone to that kind of behaviour when they get bored.



Has it ever been eradicated from the game?

Is it a behavior?

Or just playing the god forsaken game.

This is not a psychological evaluation.

Its a video game.

There is a credit sink in the game. But that means people would have to learn to lose in a video game.

Its called rebuys.

 

[Powderpanic]

The problem with piracy is that it is completely pointless, has been like that since the game released. The amount of times I was pulled out warp, thinking why not just buy yourself a freighter and earn 50x more than asking for a few scraps. Same deal with mining, a pirate is better off just buying a cheap ship and doing the mining.

4 tons (around 6 mill)m is rubbish for the effort involved.

It is a shame, piracy was going to be my main profession.

You get 10-15 Opals.. At 1.4mil a pop, totally worth its time, as that is just one interdiction and my Krait can hold 64 tonnes.

Criminals do it for the fun of crime and relative ease of making money.
Back when the rare routes were a thing and a million was a decent amount of money. Grabbing 15 tonnes from someone was totally worth its time, since the whole Leesti cluster was fully of traders.

The credit balance vs risk/reward is the games biggest issue.

The worst thing that EVER happened to the game was the insertion of smuggling.

You could suddenly make 50million a trip, which would take around 30-40mins and would always result in different end locations. Making piracy impossible.

The good old days of the slave runs in Chemise ( if that is how it was spelt ) and the high value paladium runs dried up overnight.

Powderpanic
The Voice of Griefing

 

[Robert Maynard]

The problem with piracy is that it is completely pointless, has been like that since the game released.

A problem with PvP piracy is that it needs willing targets - and players choose who they play among on a session by session basis and what role they undertake. If piracy sees a significant increase in practitioners it's entirely possible that the preferred targets may be targeted too often (for their long term profitability) and choose to play in a different mode. The fundamental question is: who is going to play as the pirate's prey?

 

[Brrokk]

A problem with PvP piracy is that it needs willing targets - and players choose who they play among on a session by session basis and what role they undertake. If piracy sees a significant increase in practitioners it's entirely possible that the preferred targets may be targeted too often (for their long term profitability) and choose to play in a different mode. The fundamental question is: who is going to play as the pirate's prey?

It is. And the obvious answer is that the pirates should be willing to take turns playing as pirate victims. I'm still waiting to see the PG for this get set up; I might even apply to join.

 

[Julio Montega]

The problem with piracy is that it is completely pointless, has been like that since the game released. The amount of times I was pulled out warp, thinking why doesn't this guy just buy a freighter and earn 100x more than the scraps he is asking for. Same deal with mining, a pirate is better off just buying a cheap ship and doing the mining.

4 tons (around 6 mill) is rubbish for the effort involved.

It is a shame, piracy was going to be my main profession. Devs should really think about giving piracy and trade a big overhaul

That very much is a problem, and that is because of how BGS handled the stolen goods.
I don't know if that still is the case, but the assault on a ship was logged and the selling of the
stolen fortune, nothing else besides that in case of non-lethal approaches.

It wasn't tracked, that a ship had been robbed of 32 tons of X produced in economy Y in system Z by faction A, which
then sees a tradeloss and is impacted by the deed itself.

PvP wise, we can now pledge to minor factions via squadrons, that needs
to work as proposed years ago with the "shadow affiliation" where a player
acts to the BGS as a VIP regarding interactions he does and he is the victim of.
So PvP piracy needs a bigger impact on the BGS by tracking each ton lost
and so forth.

A problem with PvP piracy is that it needs willing targets - and players choose who they play among on a session by session basis and what role they undertake. If piracy sees a significant increase in practitioners it's entirely possible that the preferred targets may be targeted too often (for their long term profitability) and choose to play in a different mode. The fundamental question is: who is going to play as the pirate's prey?

That is a thing to consider, agreed, but if we would have the necessary tools,
then bounty hunters would "keep the pirate population in check".
Sadly we have nothing to track players actively, that applies to
bounty targets or players in normal space instances, who entered those
prior to you seeing them drop by low wake.

 

[Vandaahl]

The billionaire players needs credit sinks. Simple as that.
This new found circle can only exist as long as all parts have a reason to do so. Otherwise, as examples: once you have a miner with 10billion in assets and every ship under the sun, he/she/zi is pretty much done. Billionaire criminals and even the WhiteKnights will turn to ganking. Toxicity returns.


Now is not the time for space legs

You suggest space-marriage in Q1 and space-divorce in Q2?

 

[Robert Maynard]

Is it a behavior?

Or just playing the god forsaken game.

This is not a psychological evaluation.

Its a video game.

There is a credit sink in the game. But that means people would have to learn to lose in a video game.

Its called rebuys.

It's a choice - and not all players are prone to choosing that course of action. Many things are possible in the game - not all players engage in all of them (as there's no requirement to).

Rebuys - meaningless after a certain point (and some care with respect to which ship is flown when likely to encounter a hostile player). Combat is not inevitable - possible, certainly, but not inevitable.

 

[Powderpanic]

A problem with PvP piracy is that it needs willing targets - and players choose who they play among on a session by session basis and what role they undertake. If piracy sees a significant increase in practitioners it's entirely possible that the preferred targets may be targeted too often (for their long term profitability) and choose to play in a different mode. The fundamental question is: who is going to play as the pirate's prey?

Piracy doesnt need willing targets, its just needs targets.

This point will never ever make sense to you and that is fine. I wont put alot of effort into beating your horse.

You give traders, miners a reason to risk the rewards and they will do it.
This risk, as shown will result in defenders popping up for credit rewards to defend the traders.

The only WILLING needed, is for FDEV to put more reason into the game for Traders/miners to play in the one true mode of Open.

Instancing, Modes and blocking are just easy goto excuses as to why this doesnt happen, not why it shouldnt happen

Powerpanic
The Voice of Griefing.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

It's a choice - and not all players are prone to choosing that course of action. Many things are possible in the game - not all players engage in all of them (as there's no requirement to).

Rebuys - meaningless after a certain point (and some care with respect to which ship is flown when likely to encounter a hostile player). Combat is not inevitable - possible, certainly, but not inevitable.

Time to set some requirements then.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Piracy doesnt need willing targets, its just needs targets.

This point will never ever make sense to you and that is fine. I wont put alot of effort into beating your horse.

You give traders, miners a reason to risk the rewards and they will do it.
This risk, as shown will result in defenders popping up for credit rewards to defend the traders.

The only WILLING needed, is for FDEV to put more reason into the game for Traders/miners to play in the one true mode of Open.

Instancing, Modes and blocking are just easy goto excuses as to why this doesnt happen, not why it shouldnt happen

Powerpanic
The Voice of Griefing.

While some player pirates obviously don't care whether the player target actually has any "fun" in the encounter, there's a sustainability issue that cannot be ignored: if it's not "fun" to play among players who don't care if you have fun or not then there's no need to play among them.

.... and an Open play bonus was only ever seriously considered for Powerplay.

 

[captainchubb]

You get 10-15 Opals.. At 1.4mil a pop, totally worth its time, as that is just one interdiction and my Krait can hold 64 tonnes.


The worst thing that EVER happened to the game was the insertion of smuggling.



Powderpanic
The Voice of Griefing

I respectfully disagree. The old smuggling missions where you had, like, 20 NPCs on your case after every jump were great fun and high risk for the high reward.

 

[Powderpanic]

While some player pirates obviously don't care whether the player target actually has any "fun" in the encounter, there's a sustainability issue that cannot be ignored: if it's not "fun" to play among players who don't care if you have fun or not then there's no need to play among them.

.... and an Open play bonus was only ever seriously considered for Powerplay.

Anytime anyone mentions an Open bonus, the same people screech about why it shouldn't happen. There is literally an entire subforum for them to circle about it.

I am not sure who enjoys being robbed? Sadists mainly?

This is a space game and if you play in a Sandbox, it should be part and parcel of the risk. WHICH IS BALANCED OUT BY THE REWARD.

You make the risk reward work and then it becomes part of the game.

If people continue to be so precious over their space pixels that the risk is not worth it, they can stay in private.

They cannot and shouldnt have both. Full Open with No risk of tears.

The reception to a PP Open only bonus was greatly recieved, I think most of the fear from your group is that if it succeeded ( which it would have ) the natural progression would have moved to all facets of the game.

Powerpanic
The Voice of Griefing

 

[Ozram]

A problem with PvP piracy is that it needs willing targets - and players choose who they play among on a session by session basis and what role they undertake. If piracy sees a significant increase in practitioners it's entirely possible that the preferred targets may be targeted too often (for their long term profitability) and choose to play in a different mode. The fundamental question is: who is going to play as the pirate's prey?

I have in the past and it was great fun. Code on a few occasions highway robbed me and it was fun.