How our brains determine how good/bad we can be in games

[Cmdr Aeries Hunter]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLlsIxOBF64

An interesting look at why some people are not as good as others in computer games. How only a small fraction of a second can multiply over time to become a real disadvantage for some people. Just thought it might help some people understand why not everyone is as good as they are and that practice alone might not be enough.

 

[Thomas Marik]

Interesting but this mostly applies to reflexive play. If be interested to see how younger players fare in a low speed or even turn based environment.

 

[GraXXoR]

I'd imagine that at some point sheer cognitive reasoning, patience and strategic nous come into play, getting more and more like chess and go as the time allowed for each move increases.

 

[the100thmonkey]

E|D isn't particularly competitive. It's certainly got nothing on Starcraft. It's a much more chess-like game, especially for the BGS-focused folk and Powerplayers.

The presenter raised an important point right at the end - experience. I still play Battlefield 3 regularly, and have gotten pretty good at the game. I'm not the fastest out there by any stretch of the imagination, but I know where people are going to spawn, I know the chokepoints, I know the routes players commonly take between flags and I know the likely loadout they're going to be packing just by looking at their avatar. All that information makes adopting an effective counter easy - the assault class usually pack an M16A3, so take a highly-accurate ranged weapon, an AN-94 with a mid-range scope, for example, and pop some skulls.

E|D made that learning process a hell of a lot easier for us by giving us rather easily predictable NPCs for the first year of the game, and broken ones for six months. Once the dust has settled on the latest update and the NPCs stop murdering players in less than 30 seconds, the NPCs will start to become easier - it's a lot easier to kill an NPC when you can predict what they're going to do.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

Just thought it might help some people understand why not everyone is as good as they are and that practice alone might not be enough.

That is true, but only for certain games that are twitch based.

ED doesn't require split second reasoning, thankfully, or many of us would really be lost beyond hope!

 

[WR3ND]

I've flown "3D" hobby aircraft in real life, and it is much more practice and twitch skill based than what is needed in Elite to get by just fine.

Honestly, maybe it's a hobby some people should take up if they're finding the new AI difficult.

Here are some examples of what I mean to help put things in perspective...

Spoiler

[video=youtube;l5FqYiZb_5s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5FqYiZb_5s[/video]

Spoiler

[video=youtube;jiFxMHBvJ0c]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiFxMHBvJ0c[/video]

 

[the100thmonkey]

I think flying an aircraft from a stationary 3rd person perspective is a lot more difficult due to the extra spatial reasoning you have to do. I'm not sure it will make anyone a better pilot. VR drone racing though...

 

[WR3ND]

Well, at least it has kind of a similar theme going, I suppose.

But also, the point was kind of to illustrate what actual twitch skill and practice can accomplish. What's needed for EDH is nowhere near that and I think the vast majority of people who are having difficulty with the new AI are more than capable of overcoming the challenge, if they want to.

 

[the100thmonkey]

Well, at least it has kind of a similar theme going, I suppose.

But also, the point was kind of to illustrate what actual twitch skill and practice can accomplish. What's needed for EDH is nowhere near that and I think the vast majority of people who are having difficult with the new AI are more than capable of overcoming the challenge, if they want to.

I wholeheartedly agree!

When I really want to see what I'm doing wrong, I record the combat session and watch it back. It's amazing how many many mistakes you make that you're not even aware of at the time.

 

[GluttonyFang]

There is always an excuse for not being able to do something/do something as well as someone else, those that dwell on those excuses either are indolent or have given up themselves, those that attempt to surpass their current limitation by any means possible are those that have strong ambition or desire.

Those that become frustrated at others for being better and refuse to look for solution are just as unproductive as those that look down at others for simply being less competent at a specific subject currently.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

What's needed for EDH is nowhere near that

Comparing RL to a video game doesn't really work well.

In RL you have real physics / gravity at play .. in ED it's all Fake / Fudges and bugs

 

[WR3ND]

Comparing RL to a video game doesn't really work well.

In RL you have real physics / gravity at play .. in ED it's all Fake / Fudges and bugs

No worries, they make very accurate and aesthetically pleasing RC hobby model aircraft simulators these days too, which do help people become better RC pilots in real life. I prefer RealFlight, but there are others too.

But yeah, bugs are bugs, and the more troublesome and impeding ones get the shoe first. Thankfully Frontier will be addressing many of the new NPC ones soon.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

No worries, they make very accurate and aesthetically pleasing RC hobby model aircraft simulators these days too, which do help people become better RC pilots in real life.

I prefer RealFlight, but there are others too.

It does look fun though ... a friend at work is well into RC planes .. It's not my cup of tea but I appreciate the brain power that goes on in the background.

 

[Cynaqq]

Another thing to get concerned about is this:

What happens when a company takes that edge out of the game?

I agree that saying 'git gud' (forgive me) is rude and dismissive to people having real issues playing and that's detrimental to the discussion and the quality of the community. I really agree. However, I don't agree the solution is to dumb the game down or keep the skill ceiling low. Games have a balance where everything is just right. The learning curve and the skill ceiling should be adjusted meticulously for a game to be fun and satisfying at the same time. Imagine a perfect balance of difficulty. A little on the easier side makes the game boring for anyone who wants to invest a little in the game. It makes a perfect 'passtime' game where you can just jump in for however minutes you have and relax. It isn't a good balance for people who like to get lost in the game world a little though. They master it quickly and it becomes tedium. A little on the harder side of the perfect balance, the game will be perfect for adolescents to young adults who have more time than responsibilities, especially if they have a somewhat competitive nature.

Elite is not a game you can boot up for half an hour, get your mind off of your troubles and shut down. It is meant to be engaging and it should reward time investment. I'll make a very poor analogy, allow me this lack of imagination. I like watching football match highlights. I enjoy watching a well constructed attack end up in a goal. I like watching a well executed corner kick miraculously saved by a very competent goalkeeper. I hate watching a full game though and I have no interest in the individual players or all the other jazz concerning the sport itself. In a way, I hate football. I'd be an avid (amateur) football player and observer if the field was a quarter of what it is now, the goal was a little bit larger, offside wasn't a thing and the matches lasted a half hour.