How To Build A PvP Capable Ship

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ryan_m

Banned
As many saw my post yesterday, I threw together a PvE combat outfitting guide over the weekend. With some additional help, I also put together a beginner PvP guide that will hopefully make Open more accessible to people that are interested.
What is in the guide?


  • How to survive in Open
  • Situational awareness
  • Survival outfitting
  • Evasion
  • PvP-focused builds
  • PvP ship tier list
  • Engineer effect guide
  • PvP hotspot list
Just like with the guide posted yesterday, this is meant to be a very high-level view of this information and is in no way comprehensive. There are generalizations, and if you plan on really learning PvP, go out there and join some servers. A LOT of the knowledge you need is very, very specific depending on what you're planning on flying, so ask questions and get fighting.
 
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Most of that I knew but the meta builds are appreciated! For pvp what are your thoughts on subbing challenger with your chieftain build?
 

ryan_m

Banned
Most of that I knew but the meta builds are appreciated! For pvp what are your thoughts on subbing challenger with your chieftain build?

It could be viable. Chief has it beat with agility, so it might be suboptimal. Fly what you like, though!
 

Philip Coutts

Volunteer Moderator
Very nice guide that will hopefully reduce the "fear" of playing in open. Be interesting to see how the Mamba comes into play (depending on how they balance the heat issues)
 

ryan_m

Banned
Very nice guide that will hopefully reduce the "fear" of playing in open. Be interesting to see how the Mamba comes into play (depending on how they balance the heat issues)

If heat gets fixed a bit the mamba will be a top 5 ship for PvP because of the speed alone. It's basically a huge viper, so there's no way it wouldn't be at least decent.
 
As many saw my post yesterday, I threw together a PvE combat outfitting guide over the weekend. With some additional help, I also put together a beginner PvP guide that will hopefully make Open more accessible to people that are interested.
What is in the guide?


  • How to survive in Open
  • Situational awareness
  • Survival outfitting
  • Evasion
  • PvP-focused builds
  • PvP ship tier list
  • Engineer effect guide
  • PvP hotspot list
Just like with the guide posted yesterday, this is meant to be a very high-level view of this information and is in no way comprehensive. There are generalizations, and if you plan on really learning PvP, go out there and join some servers. A LOT of the knowledge you need is very, very specific depending on what you're planning on flying, so ask questions and get fighting.

Nice guide! Definitely gleaned a couple of tips re defence!
 
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Great guide CMDR and some really useful tips.

Great to know that none Prismatic shields are totally viable for a T7!
 
Nice +1

Especially liked "Torpedo pylon: Only really viable on meme ships."

So just for you:


EuLOyR1.png
 
Nice +1

Especially liked "Torpedo pylon: Only really viable on meme ships."

So just for you:



I was winged up with a guy in the CG a couple of weeks ago (the one where the haz res was a 20 min SC trip) who installed torps on his chieftian, just waiting for the inevitable griefer to show up. Which he did in about 10 mins after we got there. Torps for the win!
 
Good effort, but this doc repeats the same inconsistency I see everywhere that open vs solo is discussed:

guide doc said:
Why should I go into Open in the first place?
Open is the only mode where you can actually be in danger after a certain point. NPCs are pretty much brain dead and no threat once youÂ’re in a Vulture or larger. They can be safely ignored in even shieldless ships if you know how to win interdictions, something that cannot be said for other players. Every hollow icon you encounter could be a friend or foe and that adds to the excitement of the game. You have a very real chance of losing unless you get your together.

But isn't open a wasteland of gankers?
No. Outside of some very populated systems, it's pretty much just like solo/PG. YouÂ’ll see a random player here and there but most PvPers sit in specific systems looking for fights, and these are almost entirely predictable.

In other words:
  • You should play in open, because other people make the game more interesting. Don't worry about getting ganked by those people though, because
  • The game in general is mostly empty of other people, so it's easy to avoid them and be by yourself.

The whole point of solo is to avoid other people and be by yourself. If you're going to take the above advice, there's no point in leaving that mode.

And then there is this, which is not your fault but the reason why PVP is such a mess in Elite:

guide doc said:
As you jump into a system, the first thing you should be doing is checking your friends panel which will show other player-controlled ships in your instance. Quick quiz: what do you do if you see the following in your instance and you’re in a shieldless T6?
Fer-de-Lance
Fer-de-Lance
Fer-de-Lance
Federal Assault Ship
Federal Gunship
Alliance Chieftain
Alliance Chieftain

Leave. Leave is the answer here. This is pretty much the most danger you could possibly be in while playing Elite. This means there are at least 2 wings worth of players in combat fit ships currently sitting in supercruise. If you’re not prepared to tank the damage these ships can put out, you have to avoid that damage in the first place by not being there. You cannot win every fight. In Elite, you are not the hero, you’re a cog in a machine. You’re not fighting the good fight by throwing yourselves at these guys, you’re just wasting cash.

Looking at those ships, I bet the lot of them combined have 0t of cargo space for loot - it's all going to be shield cells and HRPs. As long as the above remains true, there is no reason at all for the T6 pilot to want to play in open. He's not going to be able to reason with the players in the other ships, because they don't care about his cargo - they want his scalp. NPCs may be dumb, but if you can't fight they will leave you alone if you drop some loot. And as long as that happens, there's nothing for pirates to loot, and in consequence nothing for bounty hunters to hunt. So the game has no "ecology" where you have carrots, rabbits and wolves. All you have is a bunch of rabid dingos in one carrot patch, and all the smart rabbits are on the other hill.
 
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Great solid guide you have made for the Community OP.

Everyone who is new to the game or Open could really learn from this to become a better and safer CMDR. Even the more experienced players benefit from keeping this guide around as a refresher/referral.
 
In other words:
  • You should play in open, because other people make the game more interesting. Don't worry about getting ganked by those people though, because
  • The game in general is mostly empty of other people, so it's easy to avoid them and be by yourself.

The whole point of solo is to avoid other people and be by yourself. If you're going to take the above advice, there's no point in leaving that mode.
There's a fair number of middle-ground systems (maybe 500 or so?) where it's rarely exciting enough for PvPers but there's enough traffic that you'll see plenty of other players just going about their business - most of whom will at least return a hello. Ones with a traffic report in the 100-1000 range, basically. Even some of the less popular engineers count in this range.

The system-wide chat might help those systems a lot too.

NPCs may be dumb, but if you can't fight they will leave you alone if you drop some loot.
There are both assassin and terrorist NPC archetypes that also just want you dead. The terrorists are unlikely to show up unless you go looking for them in places the game strongly hints you shouldn't go in a non-combat ship, but the assassins can show up on a lot of non-cargo missions. They're still just as easy as the pirate NPCs to run away from, but they're not interested in your cargo and they won't give you ten seconds to drop it before they start firing.
 
Greetings,

TL;DR...ryan_m's post is a positive way to interest players in PvP. If not players will have an awesome combat ship.

OK, I'm impressed. PvP rebuild from a PvE Fer de Lance version. Here's my initial PVP build updated 23/11/18 per thread suggestions. With 4A long range sensors it uses 0.13mw more power than available. But since only one SCB and heat sink bank is active in combat it works OK.

I dusted off my FDL I thought was pretty good with NPCs, ripped out the gear and rebuilt it per his meta FDL design. Then off to the engineers (grand fathering some of the old core modules) per his specs. It's about 90 percent complete less the optional internals which for now a fuel scoop, fuel tank and Guardian FSD booster gets me around to complete the build. I'll fly an Asp Explorer to engineer the optionals with SCBs, HRMs etc then have them transported home. I will also have to redo the overcharged power plant to armoured. That wasn't wise but I also didn't realize that armoured also adds additional power which covers his basic build. Probably doesn't matter if all your enemies are NPCs.

I went G5 charge enhanced distributor which drops 5% capacity but adds 45% recharge. Then I went with cluster capacitors which adds 8% capacity and drops 2% recharge. The end result from stock is all in the blue with 42.1% recharge and 2.6% additional capacity. Seems like the right way to go. UPDATE: Replies recommend Super Conduits but haven't tried it out yet. The numbers would go to 50% recharge but lose 10% overall capacity.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________

Combat Test with NPCs

Heading home I hit a USS threat level 1. Well, why not. It's a viper. Three plasmas on fire 1 and two rails on fire 2. One plasma volley and the viper disappears. Another USS threat level 1 with an anaconda. Target the power plant, three plasma volleys and it disappears. Heat only went to 55% then quickly cooled off while the weps pips recharged in 3 seconds. Fire again. No additional heat.

Oh, a USS threat level 5. I'm getting a big head now. With a fast moving FDL and am pretty good with fixed weapons (but never engineered them correctly) I take out the smaller ships and then concentrate on the hard one. It's an Asp Explorer that knows a lot more about shields and SCBs than I do at the moment. Still while I am manuevering and firing it's weapons never hit me and had problems turning around. Maybe effects work on NPCs. Back at a local station collecting my bounties I found replenishing my ammo for a few hits cost 15,000 credits. Don't miss a lot!

The only hits were with multiple ships attacking and I wasn't engaging them. With the meta design and moving fast the shields only lost one ring and recharged almost immediately. I probably should have brought the long range rails online but it is a brand new ship to relearn.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________

Reality

Note, I'm not anywhere close to engaging in PvP combat with any competent pilot who has been doing it for years and probably has several ships past the FDL specifically designed to take my build out. But as a starter meta FDL I have a great training build. Now it is up to me to take advantage of it and practice, practice and practice until I dial it all in without thinking. Maybe it will or will not happen. Like anything in the game dedication and persistence often yields positive results.

Thanks to ryan_m posting a positive thread with a few answers for those who might be interested in PvP (or not) if they had some knowledge to start with. ryan_m provided that. Nor was it about his promoting PvP at times or even his ship builds. ryan_m provided ship builds and the equipment to engineer and install. The major difference was he told you WHY you were installing every component in your ship and what it does and does not do in the overall design for a specific PvP encounter. That is so much more important than any specific ship build getting the player to understand their builds and how they work. Thus I came up with my distributor cluster capacitors effect.

That is a positive PvP moment we need more of versus other posts that want to make current aspects of the game as Open mode only for a quick solution. Find a solution that interest other players taking a look at PvP then invite them to it. Never force them into it. UPDATE: Replies recommended Super Conduits but haven't tried it out yet.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________

A best seller book?

ryan_m said he could do 30 pages on PvP combat. Maybe he should write a book inviting other expert players to add chapters to it. But it cannot be an actual hardcopy book. Who knows the direction Frontier will take Elite Dangerous with the next update and a hardcopy could be obsolete plus expensive with all the pretty pictures! Make it an online yearly subscription at a very low cost. Don't get an EGO! Of course per my EGO I'll only take 1% of your profits on the second year after suggesting it. :)

ryan_m did it the right way. We need more posts like this.

Regards to All

184806x1580.jpg
 
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Greetings,

TL;DR...ryan_m's post is a positive way to interest players in PvP. If not players will have an awesome PvE ship.

OK, I'm impressed. PvP rebuild from a PvE Fer de Lance version. Here's my initial PvP rebuild and it will constantly change.

I dusted off my FDL I thought was pretty good with NPCs, ripped out the gear and rebuilt it per his meta FDL design. Then off to the engineers (grand fathering some of the old core modules) per his specs. It's about 90 percent complete less the optional internals which for now a fuel scoop, fuel tank and Guardian FSD booster gets me around to complete the build. I'll fly an Asp Explorer to engineer the optionals with SCBs, HRMs etc then have them transported home. I will also have to redo the overcharged power plant to armoured. That wasn't wise but I also didn't realize that armoured also adds additional power which covers his basic build. Probably doesn't matter if all your enemies are NPCs.

I went G5 charge enhanced distributor which drops 5% capacity but adds 45% recharge. Then I went with cluster capacitors which adds 8% capacity and drops 2% recharge. The end result from stock is all in the blue with 42.1% recharge and 2.6% additional capacity. Seems like the right way to go.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________

Combat Test with NPCs

Heading home I hit a USS threat level 1. Well, why not. It's a viper. Three plasmas on fire 1 and two rails on fire 2. One plasma volley and the viper disappears. Another USS threat level 1 with an anaconda. Target the power plant, three plasma volleys and it disappears. Heat only went to 55% then quickly cooled off while the weps pips recharged in 3 seconds. Fire again. No additional heat.

Oh, a USS threat level 5. I'm getting a big head now. With a fast moving FDL and am pretty good with fixed weapons (but never engineered them correctly) I take out the smaller ships and then concentrate on the hard one. It's an Asp Explorer that knows a lot more about shields and SCBs than I do at the moment. Still while I am manuevering and firing it's weapons never hit me and had problems turning around. Maybe effects work on NPCs. Back at a local station collecting my bounties I found replenishing my ammo for a few hits cost 15,000 credits. Don't miss a lot!

The only hits were with multiple ships attacking and I wasn't engaging them. With the meta design and moving fast the shields only lost one ring and recharged almost immediately. I probably should have brought the long range rails online but it is a brand new ship to relearn.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________

Reality

Note, I'm not anywhere close to engaging in PvP combat with any competent pilot who has been doing it for years and probably has several ships past the FDL specifically designed to take my build out. But as a starter meta FDL I have a great training build. Now it is up to me to take advantage of it and practice, practice and practice until I dial it all in without thinking. Maybe it will or will not happen. Like anything in the game dedication and persistence often yields positive results.

Thanks to ryan_m posting a positive thread with a few answers for those who might be interested in PvP (or not) if they had some knowledge to start with. ryan_m provided that. Nor was it about his promoting PvP at times or even his ship builds. ryan_m provided ship builds and the equipment to engineer and install. The major difference was he told you WHY you were installing every component in your ship and what it does and does not do in the overall design for a specific PvP encounter. That is so much more important than any specific ship build getting the player to understand their builds and how they work. Thus I came up with my distributor cluster capacitors effect.

That is a positive PvP moment we need more of versus other posts that want to make current aspects of the game as Open mode only for a quick solution. Find a solution that interest other players taking a look at PvP then invite them to it. Never force them into it.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________

A best seller book?

ryan_m said he could do 30 pages on PvP combat. Maybe he should write a book inviting other expert players to add chapters to it. But it cannot be an actual hardcopy book. Who knows the direction Frontier will take Elite Dangerous with the next update and a hardcopy could be obsolete plus expensive with all the pretty pictures! Make it an online yearly subscription at a very low cost. Don't get an EGO! Of course per my EGO I'll only take 1% of your profits on the second year after suggesting it. :)

ryan_m did it the right way. We need more posts like this.

Regards to All


Your core modules need some work.
 
The basic premise for avoiding negative interaction with other players is that the process constitutes "fun" for the player under threat.

From an RP perspective, if the ganking players were pirates, blockading, or active participants in a BGS conflict a target player would expect attack.

HOWEVER, these are not the authentic reasons that the FDLs FAS FGS Chieftain wings are floating about in SC in most cases.

So from the perspective of a player playing the game within an RP context, going through the tremendous build and playstyle gymnastics to "survive" the encounter with players of this type is simply not "fun" and not worth the effort.

The content in the guide is awesome. It's a shame that there can't be dedicated PVP and PVE megaservers.
 
Your core modules need some work.

I updated the build. Would you care to elaborate helping others with your game experience? Or not.

...The content in the guide is awesome. It's a shame that there can't be dedicated PVP and PVE megaservers.

Frontier went with engineers to add the ultimate combat challenge in Open mode while others in Solo or Group didn't have to invest that time and expense having fun with the game. It was a good decision on their part satisfying the needs of many diverse players. The weakness was new players coming into the game, going to Open to make friends and getting creamed per that hard earned ship they don't have the rebuys for in populated systems where players looking for live kills are waiting.

How do we fix that? Education and information. Might not be easy as how many players do not know that Frontier has an Elite Dangerous Forum? For every solution there is always a negative. This game is often to scary as to how real life works out.

Regards
 
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I updated the build. Would you care to elaborate helping others with your game experience? Or not.

I'm going to channel Bob... Reactive Armour, HD, deep plating; Armoured PP; Drag Drives; 4D sensors... = better hull, stronger PP, faster boost...
 
Great job Ryan! I hope more people get into Open....

I don't see the Clipper mentioned though, My Interceptor Frag Clipper is offended Lol:x
 
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