How to combat reverse fliers

[Dynamo]

Hey all,

Just got beat fairly honestly by an anaconda. I ditched mine, as I prefer the Viper.

My tactics when against larger ships is to get on their six, then use lateral boosters to stick to their six. Their turns I can slide around so as not to end up in their sights.


However, just came up against a guy who slammed in reverse, and just turned after me.

I boosted away, and tried again, but same thing. He constantly was able to keep weapons on me for > 60% of the flight. After withdrawing a further time, the 3 engagement finished me off, as I was seeing how I could remain out of his sights.

But if all his weapons are pointing backwards - just chasing wont work. getting in front is unpredictable as can just change direction, which leaves you outside the turn.

Can try it against AI, slamming into reverse puts you at a massive advantage.


Anyone got any tactics when they come up against this tactic?

 

[Defacto]

I do a lot of reversing in my Cobra when fighting Fed fighters.
I haven't tried this myself, but if you are in a faster, you can try to reverse aswell! Fly past them, do a 180, and keep reversing while using your laterals. Now the situation should be same as in a non-reverse fight, only with inverted controls... (it does sound complicated, I haven't tried this out myself)

 

[Commander Dave]

Yes.
Get better.
Very flippant I know.
The point is really that you're adversary is a human being who can think on the fly and if they're clever they'll come up with ways to even the odds between the most seemingly mismatched of opponents.
Are there tactics to be developed against every conceivable adversary's tactic ?
Possibly.
But you, the player, are the one who will have to develop them.
As with most things it's an evolution, a process of edge over edge, advantage over advantage. A war where any advantage you may have is swiftly negated by an improved tactic from your opponent.

In your situation you had a tactic that served you well against all comers. Until your adversary developed a tactic to neutralise your advantage.
Now it's your job to develop a strategy to give you a tactical advantage.
None of us can tell you what that may be.
It's up to you.
It's up to me.
It's up to all of us to develop and survive as best as our intellect has equipped us.

Fly and learn.

 

[Clifford]

If they fly in reverse, shooting at you: you are at a disadvantage to pursue them.
You are basically "marching into machine-gun fire" when you do this, so don't.

Options are:
1) take the hits and try to overtake them (if you are significantly faster) <- this is ill-advised and usually suicidal
2) boost at an angle to them and maybe meet-up to re-engage later
3) break-off the pursuit and go do something else

Right now in the game, there is no good way to force someone to stay and fight for destruction. Usually people fight until their hull is low, then run away.

I boosted away, and tried again, but same thing. He constantly was able to keep weapons on me for > 60% of the flight. After withdrawing a further time, the 3 engagement finished me off, as I was seeing how I could remain out of his sights.

There's no point in continuing a battle when you know you are losing; currently in the game there is no mission that requires you to defend any fixed position, defend another ship, etc.

Edit to add:
There's also a 4th option done by some pilots:
4) Get on the forums and complain about people flying as-if they are in space, and try to get the game changed to make them fly like airplanes.

 

[Thrace Fulton]

Also keep in mind that the reverse method is mostly viable in open space. Flying in packed battle zones or asteroid fields requires a bit more forward flight, since as far as I've seen there are no viewing methods for reverse avoidance.

I think once mine launchers are in use they will also negate a few tactics when used properly.

 

[Rhaedas]

4a) get on forums and suggest that since the main thrusters are in the back, reverse shouldn't be as fast as forward. This has been done in the past, and maybe we'll see some changes there. If someone wants to still use this tactic, they can always use FA off to continue drifting while they 180 around, and fly as in space.

 

[Clifford]

(oops, wrong thread)

 

[Clifford]

4a) get on forums and suggest that since the main thrusters are in the back, reverse shouldn't be as fast as forward.

Ah, that artificial speed-cap again.

 

[blacky75]

Usually people fight until their hull is low, then run away.

No need to wait until Hull get's tackled... I run away as soon as weapons are deployed

 

[Defacto]

4a) get on forums and suggest that since the main thrusters are in the back, reverse shouldn't be as fast as forward. This has been done in the past, and maybe we'll see some changes there. If someone wants to still use this tactic, they can always use FA off to continue drifting while they 180 around, and fly as in space.

I refuse to acknowledge that they are thrusters. They sure don't work like thrusters in any other way... I mean, this whole discussion is silly from a science standpoint, since there is a top speed. I just go with some kind of inertialess rotating disc drive to suspend my disbelief.

I don't think that any mechanics needs to change. Reversing is simply the counter-tactic to turn-fighting (in some situations atleast)

 

[Clifford]

I don't think that any mechanics needs to change. Reversing is simply the counter-tactic to turn-fighting (in some situations atleast)

and this ^^^ is the main reason we still need a viable reverse tactic to add variety to the dogfighting.
Because in my experience, alot of dogfighting right-now, among evenly matched ships, is just seeing who can turn the tightest to get the other ship in their sights.

Side+vertical thrusters and reverse speed are some of the few ways to avoid the endless "Pull up to shoot the other ship" circling..

 

[Thrace Fulton]

4a) get on forums and suggest that since the main thrusters are in the back, reverse shouldn't be as fast as forward. This has been done in the past, and maybe we'll see some changes there. If someone wants to still use this tactic, they can always use FA off to continue drifting while they 180 around, and fly as in space.

One could argue that since FA is in theory just "auto-newtonian" thrusters to counteract inertial flight, the reverse should have the same top speed limit. The only place this breaks down is in the acceleration in reverse from a stop.

But on the other hand, maxing out forward speed, FA-off, rotate 180, FA-on is simply a faster, more skillful way of doing the same thing... isn't it?

 

[Viajero]

What about going silent + heat sinks to keep heat down while trying to get at their six? Would that negate the Anaconda accuracy there? Probably short lived but maybe worth a shot.

Also, and alternatively, is there any weapons you can load out that can give you a range advantage? Gimballed lasers are now quite ineffective at 1500+ or so against small targets. So... cannons and staying at 2000+? He is bigger than you so fixed energy weapons in general also can be an advantage in general at long range.

 

[Clifford]

But on the other hand, maxing out forward speed, FA-off, rotate 180, FA-on is simply a faster, more skillful way of doing the same thing... isn't it?

Ya know,,., everyone keeps crying that this is too powerful as a "magic win" scenario, but whenever I try it the rotation of 180-degrees in FA-off, it is _painfully_slow_. I keep thinking "I'm spending alot of time presenting the top / bottom of my ship to the enemy while I'm trying to pitch 180-degress, I'll be dead before I finish this rotation".

What about going silent + heat sinks to keep heat down while trying to get at their six? Would that negate the Anaconda accuracy there? Probably short lived but maybe worth a shot.

IMO, silent Running and Heat sinks are only useful if you've made the decision you are trying to run away, hard to engage someone and deal meaningful damage . The problem is, that with Silent Running your sheilds are down, hard to fight when you're already at the disadvantage of having no sheilds. And re-charging shields after silent-running takes a while. I'm not "elite" fighter pilot, but I Just don't see the advantage in it. Then again, I fly a Viper so I have almost no reason to use silent running I am fast enough to just fly away directly.

 

[Zalamander]

Point here is, it shouldent matter what that Anaconda is doing, if you are in a viper you should be able to fly circles around it much faster than it can turn.

 

[Clifford]

Point here is, it shouldent matter what that Anaconda is doing, if you are in a viper you should be able to fly circles around it much faster than it can turn.

In my experience, you can if you stay very close-in, almost in their engine wash. Get far enough away, and you have too much distance you have to cover when Anaconda turns, you can't do it.

 

[Viajero]

IMO, silent Running and Heat sinks are only useful if you've made the decision you are trying to run away, hard to engage someone and deal meaningful damage . The problem is, that with Silent Running your sheilds are down, hard to fight when you're already at the disadvantage of having no sheilds. And re-charging shields after silent-running takes a while. I'm not "elite" fighter pilot, but I Just don't see the advantage in it. Then again, I fly a Viper so I have almost no reason to use silent running I am fast enough to just fly away directly.

Probably true. Edited and added another idea related to weapon range.

 

[Tempered]

I would say that the best tactic would be to have a wing man. He can only turn towards one of you at any given time.

 

[Zenicetus]

What about going silent + heat sinks to keep heat down while trying to get at their six? Would that negate the Anaconda accuracy there? Probably short lived but maybe worth a shot.

Shields off is a bad idea unless you're either A) last-ditch escaping once the shields are already down, or B) skulking in cold mode -- canopy frosted, shields and engines turned off, hardpoints down -- and nobody has spotted you yet.

Ya know,,., everyone keeps crying that this is too powerful as a "magic win" scenario, but whenever I try it the rotation of 180-degrees in FA-off, it is _painfully_slow_. I keep thinking "I'm spending alot of time presenting the top / bottom of my ship to the enemy while I'm trying to pitch 180-degress, I'll be dead before I finish this rotation".

If you're not doing it already, try this: After getting to max speed and FA Off, throttle back down to half (blue band), and have 4 pips in engine power. That should speed up the loop-turn a bit.

As for dealing with reverse fliers.... I haven't encountered one yet, but it seems like this might be a good job for a ship geared up as a missile boat. Especially if he evades, so you can re-position in the meantime. OTOH, if he's a good shot, he might just take out the missiles. So fire lots of them.

 

[firequill]

How did the cylons in battlestar galactica handle these maneuvers from their enemies?
As i recall they just promptly exploded with the vipers evading everything..

Luckily, we aren't following a script.


* Human opponent, humans are prone to overcompensation when faced with threat overload, especially when doing something as funky as newtonian space-flying in reverse..


Reverse flying makes your trajectory predictable, so if i have dumbfire rockets i'll use them liberally.

A simple corkscrew might work in my favour in disorienting you and maybe force you to make a mistake, leaving you floundering at the hands of newtonian physics.

If i can stress you out enough to make overcompensations i might make you lose control and maybe even veer off into the side of an asteroid or something.

If you turn FA on to regain control, i suppose the ship will just slow down and start to reverse direction, giving me a sitting duck for a few seconds.

Other than abusing the human error factor of the maneuver, i can't really see a sure way to beat it.

evasive attack-patterns like corkscrews and the like might do the trick sometimes.
I guess it's up to player skill ultimately.