Engineers How to figure out if it's worth it?

Navigare Necesse Est

Navigare Necesse Est
Example:

I have Viper. Viper wants to go fast. Like real fast. Viper also wants to fire all the missiles - but that needs to wait, because I'm in the middle of some calibrations.

Now there is engineer. Engineer say she can improve thruster. Somehow. Engineer says things like optimized mass. I have no idea how fast Viper will go by optimizing mass - maybe 10% increase better mass optimum is 10% more speed - maybe it is not.
Engineer also tells about thermal load. Thermal load can be bad, but how much can Viper load on thermal until everything breaks down? And what can be done to increase better load capacity?

Look, with all the hassle on top to figure out what is needed for an upgrade I don't even know whether it makes the ship worse or better. I'd like to see some meaningful info about what happens when I do an upgrade.
 

Chris Simon

Chris Simon
It's always a compromise. You are trading something for something all the time.
Try enhanced thrusters first - they only cost money.
Then you can decide between the dirty or clean drives. Clean add a bit of speed and is quite friendly to power plant. Dirty improves a speed a lot, but is really power hungry and overheats your ship. It has also lower mass tolerance (as you add mass to the ship, the speed drops faster than with normal drives.

But to answer your initial question - well, experiment is always the best way of finding out about things.
But also I am sure there will be a third-party tool for this, soon enough.
 

CMDR Redcrest

C
Yeah think I might be a bit thick too. I just want to know how fast my ship goes after the upgrade and how much heat gain my ship gets.
I'd also like to know how much better the turn rate is if I upgrade engine/thrusters. A nice simple visual representation for 2.1!
Should we start a poll about it..? 😉
 

Chris Simon

Chris Simon
The problem is, depending on your other modules and setup, the results vary so much, that you simply will have to experiment, even if the game gave you the "nice visual representation"
 

CMDR Redcrest

C
Yeah but a nice simple visual representation of what the mod is doing to your ship. Current manouverabilty: 4
After mod manouverabilty: 5 thermal load increased by x
When you buy the ship there's a spec sheet, number of hard points, utility mounts, how many internal optional slots etc etc.
So if I take my freshly bought DBE to an engineer why can't I see what's changed relative to that original spec sheet and pertinent data added as it deviates from the original? Add to the new sheet any info re changes to thermal load etc.
 

Comrade Napoleon

Comrade Napoleon
CMDR Redcrest said:
Yeah but a nice simple visual representation of what the mod is doing to your ship. Current manouverabilty: 4
After mod manouverabilty: 5 thermal load increased by x
When you buy the ship there's a spec sheet, number of hard points, utility mounts, how many internal optional slots etc etc.
So if I take my freshly bought DBE to an engineer why can't I see what's changed relative to that original spec sheet and pertinent data added as it deviates from the original? Add to the new sheet any info re changes to thermal load etc.
Click to expand...

Actually it is because they are not really Engineers.
They are in reality more like Wizards, they do a thing and they really cant be 100 % sure of outcome, only it is in that direction, sort off.
As an Engineer myself (phd) i am deeply ashamed by this abject nonsense FD has introduced, Engineers use science to predict what they do.
This expansion should be named Wizards or Gandalf (tm)

Cheers Cmdr's
 

Codger

Codger
I upgraded my FSD and it changed the powerdraw upwards. I could not figure out a way to tell if the change would result in overloading the powerplant, or not, from the screens. I kinda agree with the OP that the information is poorly presented, and many of the terms are bewildering.
 

Bod

Bod
artigan99 said:
I upgraded my FSD and it changed the powerdraw upwards. I could not figure out a way to tell if the change would result in overloading the powerplant, or not, from the screens. I kinda agree with the OP that the information is poorly presented, and many of the terms are bewildering.
Click to expand...

As a rough guide, what I do is look at the power requirement of a module in outfitting first, then on the blueprint to see what the largest power requirement increase might be, ie 10%, work out what the extra is and check outfitting to see if that extra power is available. This works fine most of the time, unless you're near max and you get a bad side effect of increased power draw. Damn you rng...
 

Navigare Necesse Est

Navigare Necesse Est
Another examples:

Faster FSD Boot Sequence

Does it mean:

a) System restarts faster after being shutdown / reset

b) Spool up time before jump is reduced

c) CD after jump / drop is reduced


Integrity:

How much more damage can the module take? Or is it damage resistance? Is it one railgun shot or 20 shots more resistant?
 

Derath

D
Navigare Necesse Est said:
Another examples:

Faster FSD Boot Sequence

Does it mean:

a) System restarts faster after being shutdown / reset

b) Spool up time before jump is reduced

c) CD after jump / drop is reduced


Integrity:

How much more damage can the module take? Or is it damage resistance? Is it one railgun shot or 20 shots more resistant?
Click to expand...

I've been told that its system restart after shutdown/reset.

As to the OP's original question you should treat optimal mass as a multiplier to your ships maneuverability basically, so 25% bonus optimum mass multiplier will give you 25% more top speed, acceleration, pitch etc. It isn't quite that simple but it really isn't far off, i'd really recommend modding engines its the most noticeable difference i've modded so far.
 

Navigare Necesse Est

Navigare Necesse Est
Derath said:
I've been told that its system restart after shutdown/reset.

As to the OP's original question you should treat optimal mass as a multiplier to your ships maneuverability basically, so 25% bonus optimum mass multiplier will give you 25% more top speed, acceleration, pitch etc. It isn't quite that simple but it really isn't far off, i'd really recommend modding engines its the most noticeable difference i've modded so far.
Click to expand...

That's nice to know. I will give it a try. I've looked at the performance thrusters in coriolis.io, but they didn't seem to be a performance upgrade with Viper. I've yet to see any in game.
 

Altair8800

A
Comrade Napoleon said:
Actually it is because they are not really Engineers.
They are in reality more like Wizards, they do a thing and they really cant be 100 % sure of outcome, only it is in that direction, sort off.
As an Engineer myself (phd) i am deeply ashamed by this abject nonsense FD has introduced, Engineers use science to predict what they do.
This expansion should be named Wizards or Gandalf (tm)

Cheers Cmdr's
Click to expand...

Whatever mechanical part I created, regardless of hand manufactured or machine manufactured, it has tolerances in all 3 dimmensions and no two parts are exactely the same.

Whatever chemical reaction I did, the outcome has tolerances, I can't even weight stuff together two times exactely the same, because any scales have tolerances.

Any electronics parts have tolerances, sometimes I use stuff out of the spec too. If the highest possible clock frequency of a CPU is below the spec it is not crap, it still can be used fine in systems not running at the highest possible frequency.

For all and any parts you'll likely be able to find cheaper surplus that is out of some tolerance, but still can be used in some applications.

So, IMHO, what they did with the modified modules is correct. A FSD with better jump range is, well better than a stock one, but not necessarily one with the largest possible jump range. As in the real world there won't be two FSD's exactely the same, good stuff.

But this special effects, now that is total crap and belongs to some universe where magic works. And it is 90th Diablo like cubing stuff, where you would try to get some magical effect on some weapon or armor. Totally implausible in the ED SciFi universe.
 

Comrade Napoleon

Comrade Napoleon
Altair8800 said:
Whatever mechanical part I created, regardless of hand manufactured or machine manufactured, it has tolerances in all 3 dimmensions and no two parts are exactely the same.

Whatever chemical reaction I did, the outcome has tolerances, I can't even weight stuff together two times exactely the same, because any scales have tolerances.

Any electronics parts have tolerances, sometimes I use stuff out of the spec too. If the highest possible clock frequency of a CPU is below the spec it is not crap, it still can be used fine in systems not running at the highest possible frequency.

For all and any parts you'll likely be able to find cheaper surplus that is out of some tolerance, but still can be used in some applications.

So, IMHO, what they did with the modified modules is correct. A FSD with better jump range is, well better than a stock one, but not necessarily one with the largest possible jump range. As in the real world there won't be two FSD's exactely the same, good stuff.

But this special effects, now that is total crap and belongs to some universe where magic works. And it is 90th Diablo like cubing stuff, where you would try to get some magical effect on some weapon or armor. Totally implausible in the ED SciFi universe.
Click to expand...

I laugh[haha] in you general direction as the other option will get me banned:) even if it is Monty Python.

Do not talk to me about Enginering and tolerances and weights and other semi studied stuff!!
The computer you use has been designed as is, everyone knowing some CPU's will come out better and some worse! The better ones, Is where 97 % of billions of the transistors work, the worst where 75 % of them work, Its a known fallout!
Tolerances Hahahaha, we can lazer etch today to 14 nm, hmm ok ?
When a mechanic takes apart my Mercedes benz's motor its almost in a "clean" room, tolerances anyone ?
When I measure Flowrates of water in what I do the tolerance is Litres a minute measured at 1000 's of cubic meter an hour, tolerances ?

And remember this game is 1000 years in the future! We have all grown ignorant apparently and rely on Wizardry to progress!
"wizardry is inseparable from science to the uninitiated" cnt remember who said it , but it is true.
This Engineers thing is completely and utterly unbelievable from a thinking perspective... IMO
Cheers Cmdr's
 

Altair8800

A
Comrade Napoleon said:
Do not talk to me about Enginering and tolerances and weights and other semi studied stuff!!
The computer you use has been designed as is, everyone knowing some CPU's will come out better and some worse! The better ones, Is where 97 % of billions of the transistors work, the worst where 75 % of them work, Its a known fallout!
Tolerances Hahahaha, we can lazer etch today to 14 nm, hmm ok ?
When a mechanic takes apart my Mercedes benz's motor its almost in a "clean" room, tolerances anyone ?
When I measure Flowrates of water in what I do the tolerance is Litres a minute measured at 1000 's of cubic meter an hour, tolerances ?

And remember this game is 1000 years in the future! We have all grown ignorant apparently and rely on Wizardry to progress!
"wizardry is inseparable from science to the uninitiated" cnt remember who said it , but it is true.
This Engineers thing is completely and utterly unbelievable from a thinking perspective... IMO
Cheers Cmdr's
Click to expand...

Nonsense, a CPU with 75% only working transistrors can't execute every instruction anymore, you have to disable 20% of the instruction set. A transistor might not switch realiabel at 1GHz anymore, which it should, but doesn't matter if the circuit is clocked with 0,5GHz.

Oh, you really can laser at 14nm accurate? Cool, give me 2 parts within 14nm accuracy and they have to be off from that in all 3 dimmesions by 0.00nm. You know, I always wante exactely the same part, tee hee.

You will not find two exately the same instruments for meassuring flow rates, one fill find 1000.0001 l/h the other will find 999.998 l/h, same as with all and everything. Might be good enough for your needs tho.
 

Altair8800

A
You will get parts with the shown tolerances from the enineers, and no two parts are the same. This is how it works.

The magical stuff is added by random.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom