How to improve Planet Zoo - by the BroNation community

[Carnotaur]

Hi there,

the BroNation community is a hang-out of some of the most prolific content creators and streamers the Planet games have to offer. If you watch a PZ video on youtube or download items from the workshop I am sure you are familiar with some of the names involved in this document.
We love the game, but we do have some gripes and issues. We know the game has an immense potential and can be improved. Instead of sitting in our little echo-chamber and yelling at clouds, the days after the anniversary led to a realization that we have to communicate our concerns more clearly, in a realistic way, with the actual people responsible and created this open letter as a community effort. Thus, we want to share this document with the fine people of Frontier and the official Frontier Forum community.

Here's hoping it leads to an open discussion with all of you.

Carnotaur (Drac)

How to Improve Planet Zoo

How to Improve Planet Zoo By the BroNation Community Dear Chanté and everyone else at Frontier making this wonderful game, We are a bunch of enthusiasts, geeks and nerds from all corners of the world, but we all share one thing: we are passionate (some would say crazy) about designing wonder...

docs.google.com

 

[marcnesiumHH]

Your paper adressed a good bunch of fields to improve, greatly appreciated. I doubt that you will ever get specific answers (when comparing to similar open letters like for Elite) but maybe it helps to improve some things in the near feature. From my POV it could have adressed some more issues with Franchise mode and animal behaviour/ appearance. Esp. the former is essential to bring many people back to the game imo and to give the game a better long-term perspective. But seeing the list of contributors it seems quite natural because most of you are the creative/ builder type of gamers.

 

[tigris115]

My take on exhibits aka. the Goldilocks proposal

So I was looking at PZ's animal exhibits (the terrariums) and IMO, while they're the perfect size for some animals, others are too big or small for the 1 size we have. Lemme lay it down with some pictures The human model I made is 1.8 meters tall, the green block represents the size of a green...

forums.frontier.co.uk

This would be how I do exhibits.

 

[Moonfox]

Amazing paper, guys! I would love to see every single note implemented in game, these are wonderful suggestions and I hope the Planet Zoo team find it helpful.

• I strongly agree with more useful guest feedback. I think we could really use a guest viewpoint map too, similar to the sight line grid we had in Zoo Tycoon 2.
• Educators and custom signage are very much needed! I love your ideas for them. The vista point education areas would be fantastic too.
• Yes to the new search options in the animal market! I would particularly like to be able to search by biome or continent, or type a keyword like "lion" or "crocodile".
• Different exhibits are a must: particularly rectangular shapes, then smaller and larger models for both square and rectangular exhibits.
• Ability to toggle the relative/world axis would be super useful.
• Strongly wishing for clearer glass panels in the game: the glass barriers are currently too "murky" as you put it. It would be nice to have clearer water too, when it is clean.
• Can I add in the option to remove maximum plant needs in Sandbox, for animals and guest recognition. It really limits creativity currently.

 

[tigris115]

I have suggestions here too. Feel free to add these

What can be improved in Planet Zoo

So yeah, Planet Zoo. Pretty good game if I do say so myself. As someone who played Zoo Tycoon 2 religiously for the better part of 15 years, it’s really nice to have a modern, up-to-date version of the game that also has the limitless building potential of Planet Coaster. However, despite the gam...

docs.google.com

 

[ElectricMonk]

Overall great suggestions - Many that I'd love to see, some I'm not hugely fussed about, but none I disagree with... Additionally, unlike a lot of lists that ask for / suggest things that are impractical to implement, these ones should be relatively easily doable. I'll add further thoughts (and one or two other suggestions later on when I have time but, in the meantime, I just want to register my support for the BroNation list.

 

[tigris115]

I'd also like to see space needs more consistent among all the animals, especially with things like the polar bear and the hippopotamus. AZA and EAZA manuals exist and would be great references for minimal space needs.

 

[Wyzer]

Thank you Carnotaur for taking the lead on this one. Happy to see it up here.

 

[DrAkula87]

That's a very well put together document with lots of valid points. Good job, everyone!

Regarding the tegidcam issue:
We have a player avatar. Would it not be cool if we could just drop it in anywhere anytime like google maps and start walking around with it? (With more reasonable movement speeds/controls, of course.) And just drop back out in the same way. The tegidcam is so awkward and really feels like a cheat they just left in the game because it's better than nothing.

To habitats, I would like to add the option of having multiple entrances. This would allow more efficient building of large and complex enclosures.

 

[GnorthernGnome]

We have a player avatar. Would it not be cool if we could just drop it in anywhere anytime like google maps and start walking around with it? (With more reasonable movement speeds/controls, of course.) And just drop back out in the same way. The tegidcam is so awkward and really feels like a cheat they just left in the game because it's better than nothing.

Really love this idea, particularly because it makes the avatar feel a little more involved with the actual gameplay. Would be fun to have a "selfie" type photo mode where your avatar poses in shot as well (though realise that's a more ridiculous suggestion in terms of actual dev time and complexity, still might be fun to share on socials etc.).

Otherwise, really love these suggestions. Lots of great, well thought through QOL improvements that would help take the game up a level or two. I lurk on the BroNation discord so have seen some of the discussion, but still really impressed with what you've all put together here

Some particular standouts for me:

• Editable education signs, particularly if they could be easily shared via Steam Workshop. I know Frontier prefers to prevent modding, but having specific "customisable" elements like signs and education boards would open up creativity in the game a lot, and if they could be shared then everyone benefits (rather than just those with the time/skills/software to make it work).
• Habitat zones! I like the idea of themes impacting education, but this makes even more sense and feels like a really clever additional mechanic.
• Windowless exhibits would be amazing; boxless would be next level. Being able to add iguanas or even frogs to tropical houses, even if they're effectively just animation loops, would really increase the realism. I guess there may be some issues with free-roaming animals like peacocks in that situation, but I'd be happy if the exhibit hitbox just stayed the same (though also agree with resizeable/combinable exhibits).
• Better control over guest viewpoints would be great; the ability to set the null fence to windowed/opaque (as you point out, like existing fences) feels like such a simple fix for the majority of those issues.
• Flexicolor groups and keyboard shortcut would be such a huge time saver!
• Ditto the material selection. Imagine that's a bigger ask, but I've often built something and then realised a different texture would be better. To expand on that as well, being able to set texture differently for each "side" of a wall would be great. I rarely want the inside of my building to look the same as the outside, but doubling up wall pieces (or sinking plaster everywhere) bloats piece count and sometimes doesn't work that well.
  • It occurs that an alternative would be a group replace option, particularly with grid items like walls. It would be great if you could multiselect a bunch of objects in a group, then select one from the building panel and have them all swap out. Imagine that might be too taxing on system resources though...
• Null everything! Particularly shops though, boxless shops would be such a huge benefit Even just a generic "counter" that could be added and then toggled to what it sells would be great, because then you can quickly change your building's purpose without having to re-fight pathing systems or scrolling through the building menu
• Smaller/different alphabet items. I know you stuck it at the end, and Rycie's packs are brilliant, but wow the piece count impact of getting more creative signs is huge right now

And one of my own that would make paths a lot less painful:

• Toggle off kerbs on raised paths. I make a two-storey building and then have to float a custom floor above kerb height, meaning that peeps constantly clip through it. Always a shame As mentioned, a null path fixes this too (and allows way more creativity), but even just a slight settings tweak would solve a lot of my frustrations.

 

[Chante Goodman]

Hey all! The devs wanted me to say thank you for the enormous effort of working together to write this to us! We find it really incredible and heart-warming that you are passionate enough about Planet Zoo that you would do this, and we really value your input. The team had a look through it today, and will continue to refer back to it too. Thanks, truly, for doing this ♥ ♥ ♥

 

[Bearcat9948]

Hey all! The devs wanted me to say thank you for the enormous effort of working together to write this to us! We find it really incredible and heart-warming that you are passionate enough about Planet Zoo that you would do this, and we really value your input. The team had a look through it today, and will continue to refer back to it too. Thanks, truly, for doing this ♥ ♥ ♥

This makes me quite happy! I know they look at stuff on their own time occasionally and you might also forward them some individual stuff, but to send them this list, which I really do think are a lot of smaller game changes that would go a long way into helping this game excel, is very exciting

 

[Chante Goodman]

This makes me quite happy! I know they look at stuff on their own time occasionally and you might also forward them some individual stuff, but to send them this list, which I really do think are a lot of smaller game changes that would go a long way into helping this game excel, is very exciting

Ah, there's no 'might' or 'occasionally' about it. Myself and the devs have a 'forum day' once a week where we look through the threads together, which is usually why I batch respond to things in one go as they can help me respond to the more technical questions (this isn't to say I/we are not active on the forums outside of this day, we're active every day, but we set time aside to do it together too - that way we can knock out speedy responses)! We also share some of the top/busiest forum threads with them once a week, so they know what some of the hottest discussions in the community are. They're always having a look through the forums, same as the CM team are always passing along things too! There's no reason why we wouldn't pass something like this along, or they wouldn't read it. They want everyone to enjoy the game, and are always asking for feedback on how to improve it. We really appreciate members of the BroNation server coming together in this way to make something like this! ♥

 

[PeppyPepp]

Ah, there's no 'might' or 'occasionally' about it. Myself and the devs have a 'forum day' once a week where we look through the threads together, which is usually why I batch respond to things in one go as they can help me respond to the more technical questions (this isn't to say I/we are not active on the forums outside of this day, we're active every day, but we set time aside to do it together too - that way we can knock out speedy responses)! We also share some of the top/busiest forum threads with them once a week, so they know what some of the hottest discussions in the community are. They're always having a look through the forums, same as the CM team are always passing along things too! There's no reason why we wouldn't pass something like this along, or they wouldn't read it. They want everyone to enjoy the game, and are always asking for feedback on how to improve it. We really appreciate members of the BroNation server coming together in this way to make something like this! ♥

Thank you, Chante. I just wanted to say that I really enjoyed Q&A on Rudi's stream the other day, it was fun chatting with you! I really appreciate your openness and honesty, and while I know there are some things you can't speak about, it was really interesting to hear you talk about different issues/requests about the game.

P.S. - Psssst. Please tell the devs we need more cats. As a fellow cat lady, I'm sure you understand.

 

[Bearcat9948]

Ah, there's no 'might' or 'occasionally' about it. Myself and the devs have a 'forum day' once a week where we look through the threads together, which is usually why I batch respond to things in one go as they can help me respond to the more technical questions (this isn't to say I/we are not active on the forums outside of this day, we're active every day, but we set time aside to do it together too - that way we can knock out speedy responses)! We also share some of the top/busiest forum threads with them once a week, so they know what some of the hottest discussions in the community are. They're always having a look through the forums, same as the CM team are always passing along things too! There's no reason why we wouldn't pass something like this along, or they wouldn't read it. They want everyone to enjoy the game, and are always asking for feedback on how to improve it. We really appreciate members of the BroNation server coming together in this way to make something like this! ♥

I should have clarified my point better, that's my bad. I knew you and the CMs have a weekly meeting with the dev team, which I think is awesome! What I was really trying to say was that normally, what you might discuss with them would be one or two of the ideas listed in the document, just on it's own in a dedicated thread just to discuss that topic. So for me, it's exciting that you have discussed this full list, which includes a lot of great ideas in one place, as it's own discussion, it that makes any sense. I did not mean to insinuate that you guys don't listen to a lot of the feedback or discussions we post here or elsewhere, if it came off that way I apologize

 

[Chante Goodman]

I should have clarified my point better, that's my bad. I knew you and the CMs have a weekly meeting with the dev team, which I think is awesome! What I was really trying to say was that normally, what you might discuss with them would be one or two of the ideas listed in the document, just on it's own in a dedicated thread just to discuss that topic. So for me, it's exciting that you have discussed this full list, which includes a lot of great ideas in one place, as it's own discussion, it that makes any sense. I did not mean to insinuate that you guys don't listen to a lot of the feedback or discussions we post here or elsewhere, if it came off that way I apologize

No need to apologise, at all! I misunderstood you too, so I’m glad we cleared it up either way!

 

[Carnotaur]

@magnesiumHH
Of course our input is from the more creative kinds/sandbox players. The BroNation attracts these kind of players, so it's natural that their opinion reflects their playstyle. However, I want to point out that as players we act as a kind of free marketing tool. YT Videos attract customers. More workshop items help those who have not the free time, abbility or interest in creating intricate objects themselves.

Speaking strictly of me, the Franchise feels lackluster, because Conservation is nothing more than a currency, that leads to "Exotic Animal Puppy Mills".And don't get me wrong, I love creative business sims in the vein of RCT and Parkitect. But it's far too late already to change that. The points we were raising are all not too far fetched, thought to be implementable with the current game build. Changing the core mechanism of the business seems to be more far fetched. I would love to see it improved, though, but personally I see it as less realistic.

Regarding animal behaviour, the game improved that aspect so much from the Beta. Yeah, I have some issues, tree dwellers don't tree dwell and any animal seem to jump into a body of water the moment it's put in place. But I have seen worse, and the animals, for my taste, looks fantastic. They do their job What I am missing is a greater variety. But our concerns were not supposed to be a wishlist. You can't get over a quarter-hundred of voices from some of the finest players around, if we would do that. It's a little list of improvable things we all could agree on would help the game.

@Moonfox & @ElectricMonk
100% agree. Thanks

@DrAkula87

Yep, having the player avatar be the tegidcam/virtual zoo directer placeable like google maps was how I originally phrased the point. In the revisions it was removed by other members to fit the structure of the rest of the document (My English skills sucks, and I know that). Glad to see, I am not the only one who feels that way.

@GnorthernGnome
Oh yeah, placing the iguanas and snakes as placeable objects into a tropical house as a cheat would be so freaking great for me.
And yes, reducing piece count by having actual more universal usable/smaller scaled Alphabet pieces was/is super important to me. I really really hope this is something that can be included.

@Wyzer

I feel in a way, as the instigator and initiator of the whole debate that lead to the document. So it's only natural that I finish what, in some sense, I started. I still long for the realistic Zoo game I never had. It's still isn't there, but PZ is sooooooo close to become it. So, instead of whining, I try my unrealistic shot at getting my concerns heard.

@Chante Goodman
Thank you for sharing the list with the devs.

 

[NZFanatic]

I like this list. It really feels like you've covered all the 'major' aspects of the forum through it. Many of your ideas have come up here many times, so it's nice to see them compiled so concisely. Great work!

 

[ElectricMonk]

OK, as promised, a few more detailed thoughts:

1.1 Visitors:
I agree with all of this... I feel like the devs put a medium amount of effort into guest thoughts.

1.2 Education:
As a former zoo & aquarium educator, interpretations officer, a teacher and a current university lecturer (biology), this one is especially important to me (note, most zoos, at least in Australia but also in other English speaking countries would term public education like what's in the game (signage, speakers) as well as public talks etc. as "interpretation" - education is school groups etc. That's just nit-picking though, so I'll keep calling it education). The limited education items limit possibilities, especially since one of these (the speakers) is something I hate IRL, so i almost never use them.

... 1.3.1 Signage:
Smaller and more varied signage would be great (including more designs and topics for conservation boards) - both the options suggested would work well (and are not mutually exclusive). Other types of signs might be good to include too - education about the different biomes themselves, for instance.

... 1.3.1 Staff:
I would love to see education staff included - mechanically, they could easily be implemented as (sort of) mobile speakers, although timed presentations would be even better.

1.3 Other features:
Better TegidCam would be great - linking it to the player avatar would be awesome.

... 1.3.2 Water Cleanliness:
Yes please

2 Animals
... 2.1 Animal market:
Filters for biome and continent and a search bar would be great.

... 2.2 Control of animal variants:
Would be nice but doesn't worry me too much.

... 2.2 Exhibits:
I've been saying since the beta that more shapes and sizes would be great but being able to disable windows would be cool, as would being able to remove the whole box.

3 Habitats:
... 3.1 Visibility and barriers:
Yep - agree

... 3.2 Gates:
Lower gates would help a LOT. (as would multiple gates, but I guess that there are issues with how staff are programmed that would make this difficult.

... 3.3 More freedom in animal welfare settings in sandbox:
I'd be happy with the ability to globally alter some features (e.g., remove foliage requirements, reduce space requirements) but by-habitat would be even better.

4 Building:
4.1 Options to improve building

All good, but especially:

* Other textures for staff paths and rides (also, please allow narrower (2,3 m) staff paths!
* Boxless shops (as noted, 4m is too high for a lot of realistic buildings and it'd be great to be able to create counters (while we're at it, more zoo-relevant items for sale would be good - most zoos don't sell balloons (for animal welfare and environmental reasons) but I've literally never been to a zoo that doesn't sell soft toys). Also, it'd be super nice if either: a) staff facilities were smaller, or at least b) the icon didn't show through flat roofs placed on top of them.
* Rides without tracks (especially boats and cars) - I'd also love a chairlift to be added at some point (though that's a different topic).
* Maps with terrain - another one I've been asking for since the beta - This is one of the main reasons I rarely play franchise. - Option B would be my strong preference

Also, more fonts for editable signs would help heaps!

 

[DrStephenMeyer]

CORE MECHANICS

I will say for a deeper experience the animals behavior need to be updated constantly so you can have more things to do with them from the zoo keeper to the guess. Everything from how they bond to how they interact. This goes with every other things related in the game.