How to stop PP Fifth Columnists?

[fergal]

ALD is getting some horrible systems prepped.
One in particular right now is worth negative CC and will be number 1 for us soon. It has only one system within its 15 ly exploitation radius.

I can only see one way to combat players who join a Power for the express purpose of selecting new systems that are worth negative CC to weaken the Power.

You can't expel the member from the group, and who would even make such a derision?

You can't stop preparation directly, and they are in the same Power as you so reversing your own preparation isn't possible.

If this is happening to 1 system, you need to increase all of the preparation of all your other 10 systems to above it to keep it out of the expansion list.
That means you need to put in at least 10 times the preparation to combat this, which is a massive waste of resources, even if it is possible. Instead of fighting the other Powers you are fighting your own preparation values.

What can you do?
The only solution I see is to defect to another Power and then also prep the same system. You don't need to provide 10 times the prep to combat this way, only slightly more so it is more efficient.

The system is probably right next to your existing systems (thus the negative CC) so its harder for you in your new Power to deliver as much reports because of the increased distance.

The only other alternative is to not directly stop it, but to do the same. Join the faction you suspect these players are representing, and do the same to them. Prep useless systems for them.

Is this really the solution using the game mechanics?

 

[Black Ops]

If you have solid evidence(not sure what that would be) that certain people are purposely engaging in sabotage...

Shoot them in the face.

/thread

 

[lefty1117]

It's a widespread problem. We're seeing it in Hudson too. Maybe there's a chance that there's some weird calculation going on at the beginning of the new cycle, and this isn't representative of the reality, but if it really is being done purposefully by double agents there should be something done about it by FD. Not because I don't think it's a clever idea, but because there isn't really a way in-game to identify the perps and deal with them. It's a one way mechanic.

If it's because they are just trying to grind rewards and don't care, then to me it's just more strength for an argument that I've been making, which is the rewards should be decoupled from the ranking system; only voting power should be based on rank; all other rewards should be based on length of service or some other metric.

 

[Alex Brentnall]

If you have solid evidence(not sure what that would be) that certain people are purposely engaging in sabotage...

Shoot them in the face.

/thread

Theres pretty much a reddit for each faction trying to sabotage them with groups that play solo/private and open. Stopping them as the game stands currently is impossible because judging by the comments many do it just to annoy the other players playing properly. Its not a plot for example by Hudson supporters against a rival faction, its simply to cause problems for X faction with no ulterior motive.
Yes it needs fixing with a proper new gameplay mechanic or behind the scenes game calculation to allow the best prepared prospects to be selected instead of the negative CC ones that the saboteurs prepared. Make their efforts worthless in the long run and they will no longer do it.

 

[Malfahri]

As has been suggested elsewhere, there needs to be some sanity to the prep process to prevent this. I really don't think the power leaders would sign off on these obviously bad investments.

 

[lefty1117]

Targets for preparation should be something that has to be voted on in-game. Make it so that people who are most invested in their Powers (by ranking up) have the most influence over what can be prepared. Also has the effect of narrowing focus and organizing the playerbase.

 

[stealthsultn]

I just think its too easy to change powerplay factions. Maybe if there was a way to force people to stay with a faction.

Another option is to tie the amount of prepping an individual can do to a system to their rank: That way you can't just roll in and start massively prepping bad systems right off the bat.

 

[Crash1099]

It should be done by a vote.

 

[Flavourless]

Targets for preparation should be something that has to be voted on in-game. Make it so that people who are most invested in their Powers (by ranking up) have the most influence over what can be prepared. Also has the effect of narrowing focus and organizing the playerbase.

No. They should be decided by the power NPC in a way that is consistent with their ideals, and commensurate with the powers survival/expansion. No way players should have any say.
But too many ED players want too much to be player-driven rather than intelligent.

 

[Rankaze]

As it stands, there really isn't anything you can do. In this regard, PP is utterly broken.

My first suggestion would be that preparing a system with a negative CC value should not give merits. But that alone probably is not enough.

 

[Malfahri]

No. They should be decided by the power NPC in a way that is consistent with their ideals, and commensurate with the powers survival/expansion. No way players should have any say.
But too many ED players want too much to be player-driven rather than intelligent.

Exactly. I have pledged to Patreus and as a member of one of the smaller powers I will absolutely not waste my time flipping systems if the mechanics are inherently flawed. I like being the underdog, but I'm not Sisyphus.

 

[I and I Redeye]

This is one of the reasons I won't do PP.

I'm not against it per se but I can't see how PP can progress with the current mechanics.

Basically, the more players you have the more you will win.

The more spare players you have to go underground and perform this tasks the more you can win.

It's just a numbers game dressed up.

It's interesting the PP but it's a pve grind, so more grinders=more win.

 

[Rysterical]

I thought preparation nominations will be used just for that - voting for the systems. NOT to be just extra supplies for preparation. The current system is really cumbersome to change it easily, unfortunately.

 

[Zylark]

I think most powers by now have seen concerted attempts by groups of players acting as 5th columnists within their power trying to push negative income systems for prep and expansion. Which speaks volumes of an inherent design flaw in the current mechanic of PP. Some kind of measure need be in place to prevent 5th columnists, or at least have a player organized mechanic of discovering those working against them, and vote them out of the power.

 

[lefty1117]

No. They should be decided by the power NPC in a way that is consistent with their ideals, and commensurate with the powers survival/expansion. No way players should have any say.
But too many ED players want too much to be player-driven rather than intelligent.

What?

The entire selling point of PP is to involve players, to invest them into the politics of each power, and there's already a voting mechanic in the game to select expansion targets. I have the opposite opinion that you do - I don't think voting power and player influence should be suppressed, I think it should be focused and strengthened. Have there be a limit of how many systems can be prepped per cycle. Have players submit votes. Those with higher ranks will have more votes (or nominations, whatever the in-game terminology is). Those with higher ranks should in theory be those are who more invested and spend more time supporting the power, so should be more aware of the ideal targets and willing/able to spend the time researching.

Let's be honest, Powerplay is the first time players get a direct and measureable say in how the galaxy unfolds. The previous system flipping mechanics have proven to be buggy at best, opaque and inoperable at worst. For the "NPC power" to decide the course of action would be highly disappointing.

 

[CATPAIN KIRK]

I thought preparation nominations will be used just for that - voting for the systems. NOT to be just extra supplies for preparation. The current system is really cumbersome to change it easily, unfortunately.

Well - the nominations could be used by fifth columnists as well...

I'm not opposed to fifth columnists although my own power currently seems to suffer from them (however it could also be due to sheer stupidity/laziness), but one could wonder why a power would bother sending an agent to a loss-making system in the first place.

 

[Aegis I]

Aisling's power suffers from the same issue as well. What tends to drive this behaviour is really that the crappy system actually provides decent trading profit on the way back to the HQ/controlled system. At this point in time, there is really no counter to this, but you can expect this to slow down once the profitable commodity is bled dry.

However, say if collectively, the power manages to outrank the crappy system by investing heavily in the other systems that they want. Come the next cycle, the power will have the same problem over again, just that this time around, it is competing with a new set of list.

 

[Malfahri]

What?

The entire selling point of PP is to involve players, to invest them into the politics of each power, and there's already a voting mechanic in the game to select expansion targets. I have the opposite opinion that you do - I don't think voting power and player influence should be suppressed, I think it should be focused and strengthened. Have there be a limit of how many systems can be prepped per cycle. Have players submit votes. Those with higher ranks will have more votes (or nominations, whatever the in-game terminology is). Those with higher ranks should in theory be those are who more invested and spend more time supporting the power, so should be more aware of the ideal targets and willing/able to spend the time researching.

Let's be honest, Powerplay is the first time players get a direct and measureable say in how the galaxy unfolds. The previous system flipping mechanics have proven to be buggy at best, opaque and inoperable at worst. For the "NPC power" to decide the course of action would be highly disappointing.

First of all the voting mechanic seems to be a joke with one vote equalling one prep cargo. Second, having rank/time investments won't stop 5th column assaults. Third, having a nonplayer affected mechanic to prevent the type of 5th column tactics we are seeing is logical from a role play perspective since the is a single person who is in charge of each power.

 

[lefty1117]

First of all the voting mechanic seems to be a joke with one vote equalling one prep cargo. Second, having rank/time investments won't stop 5th column assaults. Third, having a nonplayer affected mechanic to prevent the type of 5th column tactics we are seeing is logical from a role play perspective since the is a single person who is in charge of each power.

And it would go entirely against everything that Powerplay was supposed to be. If they take player choice out of it, then what's the point?

Also, not sure where you're getting "one prep cargo equals one vote" - I'm talking about using the pledge nomination system to vote on actual preparation targets, instead of just expansion targets.

 

[Tar Stone]

This has actually put me right off Powerplay until it's sorted out.

Players joining a Power just to undermine it from the inside? No thanks, what a load of rubbish. I'll await the twenty thousand page thread arguing about it, maybe there'll be a fix by xmas.

Just discovered tonight that all the old bugs in the vanilla game are still there, I thought all that stuff had been fixed. STILL getting bounties for shooting wanted ships. Branching missions STILL bugged. Mission text STILL corrupted. Someone drop me a PM when Elite Dangerous is out of early access for real this time.

Cheers commanders.