How to use the spiteful creativity of 'gankers' for the improvement of the game

[saab]

I've spent a few hours running bootleg whiskey from Eranin to Epsilon Indi for the community goal - it has been both fun and profitable, and I highly recommend it for anyone kicking around in a small ship. Four or five hours of entertaining play has me in the top 25%, with a reward of around 8 million credits. Not bad!

I recognise that it isn't for everyone, but I found the experience was enriched by commanders attempting to interdict me near Mansfield Orbital. Really! It has given an otherwise repetitive experience a real edge. Every time I arrived in Barnard's Star, pointed my prow at Epsilon Indi and engaged my FSD, my heart skipped a beat and I had to focus hard to evade the enemy.

My point:

Community goals like this should have a formal 'opposition' role. Combined with a proper crime and punishment system that cracks down on wanton murder, this would funnel the spiteful creativity of 'griefers' and 'gankers', who are here to stay, bless them, into something that fits the Elite universe and makes fun and danger for all.

Take the example of this CG. Commanders should be able to sign up for a counter-smuggling CG at the same station as the smuggling CG. They would receive a unit of contribution towards their CG for every unit of illegal cargo that they successfully cargo-scan. This would have to be done in the system but over 10km from the station (which is already protected by federal security forces). That smuggler's illegal cargo would be converted into 'hot goods' that cannot be sold for the community goal.

What do you think?

 

[Alexander the Grape]

Or... we could just make piracy viable so that ganky types would be encouraged into a RP-fitting, interesting and content generating career rather than killing people out of convenience and boredom

 

[GluttonyFang]

Or... we could just make piracy viable so that ganky types would be encouraged into a RP-fitting, interesting and content generating career rather than killing people out of convenience and boredom

I am in agreement, "psycho Cmdrs" need real punishment while piracy needs improvement. Hopefully that gets addressed at least partially in the upcoming update.

 

[Tarm Wallunga]

This idea has merits. A counter-CG if you will. However I'm not so sure the implementation of such counter activities would help the overall situation. In my experience I have yet to encounter these maligned griefers and gankers, tho I play in open exclusively for the potential interaction. Frankly, in my opinion it's just too easy to get away from an interdiction or even a firefight. Boost boost jump and head to another system. Maybe I see things differently, I don't know.

I was tagged and shot down last night and thankfully I wasn't hauling anything but the simple fact I had respawned in another system two or three jumps away resolved that issue quickly. Any other time the option to go somewhere else is just too prevalent to allow these gankers that much of a chance to get their kicks off on me. i just don't know how effective this funneling option would truly be if put into place. As I said it has merits, but like always: haters gonna hate, gankers gonna gank, griefers gonna grief, there's always a bigger fish, there's too many ways to escape the local area.

 

[Space]

I am in agreement, "psycho Cmdrs" need real punishment while piracy needs improvement. Hopefully that gets addressed at least partially in the upcoming update.

They need enforce punishment. I am against magically punishing them through nonsense game rules, it makes the game too easy. (I am from the beta days, back when the game was as hard as a rock) There need to be a proper system security system that can dispatch forces, whose power is scaled with system wealth. Players should be able to join security fleets for payment when they attack criminals. This would be full-on space police rather than independent bounty hunting.

 

[Bill Clement]

Saab, I take your point, but I think you're missing what, or rather why, griefers do. It's not about 'PvP', or piracy or whatever other excuse they come up with- it's about causing genuine upset in their fellow players. 'Collecting salt' as one particularly immature little boys club put it. Griefers may get their jollies out of ganking and seal clubbing now, but when crime and punishment buffs make that difficult for them they'll move on to other activities to spoil everyone elses enjoyment. Pad blocking, scanning smugglers inside stations, crashing pre damaged sideys into clean pilots to get them a kill penalty are all things they're already doing- I'm sure there are many more things they can do to hack off the community. Even buffing piracy is likely to generate fresh griefing opportunities- while I wish GF luck in their chosen trade, the shine might come off that when their allies and even some of their fellow CODE members figure out how to annoy nine Hells out of genuine pirates! Put another way, I'd love to see pirate missions, 'official' opposition etc as well, but the players drawn to it won't be the disruptive attention seekers you're trying to bring back into the fold. Those clowns would probably try to find a way to grief the opposition forces...

About those (probably mythical) pirates. A 'real' pirate has to bring a particular build to the party- their ship needs cargo space, would benefit from various limpets, ought to have persistent weapons with large ammo supplies or no need for ammo, a powerful interdictor, a suite of scanners and enough jump range to bring their ill gotten gains to a suitable market. Watch a few 'pirate' streams, count how many have any pirating equipment at all. Many griefers are using a very poorly balanced profession in this game as a shield to justify behaving like complete tools. A few days back the leader of a well known little boys club was caught combat logging because his 'pirate ship' didn't have enough jump range to high wake to nearby systems. The look of relief when he escaped from the fate he constantly inflicts on others was equal parts hilarious and pathetic. Regardless of popular opinion on that- see reddit for the ongoing justification/mockery handbags- he sure as heck wasn't flying a pirate vessel! [haha]

If you want to experience griefing pop down Eravate in a noobwinder. Clubbers abound. Anti-AA PvPers do, too. I've had fun going up against combat rigged ships in various builds of mine there. I suspect my commander name is a little too close to my forum one, I may have made it onto some KOS lists! The former is griefing, the latter, not so much. Go looking for a fight in a fighter or warship and you can't really complain when you find one! I've yet to meet a pirate there, though, in spite of running an unarmed Type 6 and a slow, vulnerable Type 7 in open for weeks now. While I wouldn't expect an experienced trader to interest seal clubbers or PvPers, if there were any pirates around the lure of a couple of hundred tons of high value cargo being hauled by an unescorted merchant really ought to bring all the boys to the yard...

 

[Gédéon_Lecanard]

Yep, the problem is not piracy, it's quite fun, done right. Making it more coherent for pirates would be good, especially if it allows for more RP. More income, authorities getting serious about chasing them, maybe specific tools to fit their ships, you name it.

But yet again, folks pulling you out of SC just to pew pew you without a word or a hello, meh... Meh meh meh. I sincerely find npc interaction far more insteresting. It happened to me again at Epsilon Indi. In my Cobra I got pulled out by another one. Instead of boosting away, I awaited for, well, some sort of social interaction. The guy just waited for his friend to join us and the whole pack started shooting. Same old, same old. I got away, but what a waste of time. Kuddos to them, though. They manage to be less competent at providing content than npcs. That's a feat!

 

[Limoncello Lizard]

Take the example of this CG. Commanders should be able to sign up for a counter-smuggling CG at the same station as the smuggling CG. They would receive a unit of contribution towards their CG for every unit of illegal cargo that they successfully cargo-scan. This would have to be done in the system but over 10km from the station (which is already protected by federal security forces). That smuggler's illegal cargo would be converted into 'hot goods' that cannot be sold for the community goal.

That's a really good idea.
Mrjupp and I wrote the concept for this CG. We are working on a similar one for a later date, and had asked FD to include a bountyhunting CG in direct opposition to the CG. I like your idea better than the bountyhunting one, as most bountyhunters would just go to a nearby RES - which has no relevance to a smuggling CG. I'll mention your idea to Mrjupp and to FD and see if we can come up with something that will work for everyone.
.
We did consider piracy for this CG and tried to encourage it by having the CG faction ask for stolen alcohol to be delivered. It certainly counts, as several "T-baggers" have confirmed it.

 

[Cosmos]

I find it odd that the OP claims to have a more interesting and rewarding experience being attacked yet goes on to discuss those doing so in a scornful and patronising manner. Thanks for adding much needed jeopardy to what would have otherwise been a dull and repetative experience but I'm still going to talk down to you and refer to you in perjorative terms.

I have a few words that come to mind too but the forum rules don't allow me to post them.

 

[Limoncello Lizard]

Not sure what you are reading into the OP's comments Cosmos. I think he puts a clear distinction between players who are improving everyone's experience by pirating CGs and those who just want to spoil someone's day. He's trying to offer some incentive for the latter type of players to rob rather than kill.

 

[Tarm Wallunga]

Not sure what you are reading into the OP's comments Cosmos. I think he puts a clear distinction between players who are improving everyone's experience by pirating CGs and those who just want to spoil someone's day. He's trying to offer some incentive for the latter type of players to rob rather than kill.

Agreed. He is offering a "legitimate" option for opposing CG's. The problem however and as been stated in this thread (and what I was trying to allude to as well) is that those that interfere with others playing for the purpose of being a nuisance will simply find another way to be a nuisance.

 

[GluttonyFang]

About those (probably mythical) pirates. A 'real' pirate has to bring a particular build to the party- their ship needs cargo space, would benefit from various limpets, ought to have persistent weapons with large ammo supplies or no need for ammo, a powerful interdictor, a suite of scanners and enough jump range to bring their ill gotten gains to a suitable market.

...

I guess I'm a myth o.o?

Been flying around my Cutter since I got it with the following outfit...

http://coriolis.io/outfit/imperial_...6g.AwRj4yvUVZhA.Aw18ZZA=?bn=Gluttony's Cutter

I sacrificed combat capabilities just to make convincing RP/versatility, too >_>

 

[saab]

Agreed. He is offering a "legitimate" option for opposing CG's. The problem however and as been stated in this thread (and what I was trying to allude to as well) is that those that interfere with others playing for the purpose of being a nuisance will simply find another way to be a nuisance.

Saab, I take your point, but I think you're missing what, or rather why, griefers do. It's not about 'PvP', or piracy or whatever other excuse they come up with- it's about causing genuine upset in their fellow players. 'Collecting salt' as one particularly immature little boys club put it.
...

Yes, and that's exactly what I mean - a subset of players just want to irritate others, so let's give them something to do that genuinely upsets other players, but that also fits within the gameplay and the universe. I'm confident that interdicting a smuggler, cargo scanning them, ruining their smuggling run, and then gloating at them would provide that satisfaction to those players. On top of that, they would compete with each other to score highly in their CG. It would give smugglers a real challenge!

Or... we could just make piracy viable so that ganky types would be encouraged into a RP-fitting, interesting and content generating career rather than killing people out of convenience and boredom

Hi there Alexander the Grape, nice to see your name pop up. We winged up a few times during the Lugh conflict, attacking convoys carrying military intelligence near Lugh 6 while under heavy attack from Fed commanders (Operation Dullahan). Thanks for reminding me of that, it's a nice example of what I'm talking about - there was something for everyone to do in that campaign, including pirates and griefers.

That's a really good idea.
Mrjupp and I wrote the concept for this CG. We are working on a similar one for a later date, and had asked FD to include a bountyhunting CG in direct opposition to the CG. I like your idea better than the bountyhunting one, as most bountyhunters would just go to a nearby RES - which has no relevance to a smuggling CG. I'll mention your idea to Mrjupp and to FD and see if we can come up with something that will work for everyone.
.
We did consider piracy for this CG and tried to encourage it by having the CG faction ask for stolen alcohol to be delivered. It certainly counts, as several "T-baggers" have confirmed it.

I'm glad you like the idea. Thanks for setting up this CG, I've been having a blast, and I really look forward to the next one!

 

[flyauburn41]

Or... we could just make piracy viable so that ganky types would be encouraged into a RP-fitting, interesting and content generating career rather than killing people out of convenience and boredom

Absolutely this.

The question is, how? What do you think would make it more viable?

My hope is that with the Engineers I can combine the Cytoscrambler with something new like "EMP limpets" to disable CMDRs properly without causing damage. Even better: grappling hook.

Also, the cargo exploding while I'm in the middle of trying to pick it up has got to go, AND stolen cargo should fetch slightly more on the Black Market for my trouble.

What ideas do you have to improve pirating?

 

[saab]

Absolutely this.

The question is, how? What do you think would make it more viable?

My hope is that with the Engineers I can combine the Cytoscrambler with something new like "EMP limpets" to disable CMDRs properly without causing damage. Even better: grappling hook.

Also, the cargo exploding while I'm in the middle of trying to pick it up has got to go, AND stolen cargo should fetch slightly more on the Black Market for my trouble.

What ideas do you have to improve pirating?

With respect, this has been covered extensively in other threads (check out this thread by Lateralus, for example).

Here's a question for you instead: how would you make a community goal that encourages fun interaction between traders/smugglers and pirates, while also channeling the energies of players who just like peeing off other players into something productive? If we could figure this out, I think a lot of people who have previously avoided confrontational gameplay would be attracted to Open Play, and would be pleasantly surprised.

 

[Derath]

All threads like this need a sticky at the top with the proper descriptions of people

Pirate - Wants your Cargo
Griefer - Wants your Tears
Psycho - Wants to Boom

Don't bother describing how you met a pirate in an FDL with zero cargo space, they aren't a pirate. In the same way that if i have zero cargo space i'm not a trader

Like Bill I saw the video you are talking about with that extremely lame bosmer but he is not a pirate, don't lump people who aren't pirates in with the pirates its hard enough for people to realize the difference as it is . The legitimate pirates do genuinely fly pirate ships and they do take a hit in the combat department for that, chances are they won't have SCB's or HRP, they probably have a broader weapon set to try and get cargo. For example my Python looks like this http://coriolis.io/outfit/python/07...r0b0404040505054a5i32C0C06b.Iw18eQ==.Aw18eQ== it really isn't like the build i'd use for PvP or even farming bounties.

 

[Deadspin]

...

I guess I'm a myth o.o?

Been flying around my Cutter since I got it with the following outfit...

http://coriolis.io/outfit/imperial_...6g.AwRj4yvUVZhA.Aw18ZZA=?bn=Gluttony's Cutter

I sacrificed combat capabilities just to make convincing RP/versatility, too >_>

A real pirate doesn't fit their in their world view without them having to rearrange their beliefs. It's okay, I noticed you.

If you ever need a hug, hit me up.

 

[Lateralus]

I know they've got a lot on their plate right now with the looming 2.1 release, but it's a shame FD never seem to want to discuss piracy's obvious short-comings and potential future in these (now numerous) improvement request threads.

Maybe they've got something in the pipeline so don't feel the need to talk about it. That's the hope anyway...

 

[graeme.firth]

...

I guess I'm a myth o.o?

Been flying around my Cutter since I got it with the following outfit...

http://coriolis.io/outfit/imperial_...6g.AwRj4yvUVZhA.Aw18ZZA=?bn=Gluttony's Cutter

I sacrificed combat capabilities just to make convincing RP/versatility, too >_>

Nice rig, and I respectfully salute your principles.

In your expieriance (I've never really pirated - love to blockade run) would the whole piracy thing not be whole lot more challenging and hence more fun if you did it something a little less immortally protected and equiped? That rig won't catch me but something smaller/faster may be more entertaining for both parties.

This is not a taunt - just a geniune question of interest to me.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

...

I guess I'm a myth o.o?

Been flying around my Cutter since I got it with the following outfit...

A Cutter? You're imperial royalty?

What kind of pirate is imperial royalty? Is this another one of those "During the day, he's a Something or Other in the Imperial Navy, but at night, he turns into a ruthless pirate. Day or night, he's always furry though"

Madness.