General Huge balance proposal

[Fitz0uille]

Hello guys,

Just a though about Pip system.
When you have 4 pip

• In system : Shield increase
• In engine : Maneuverability increase
• In weapons : Nothing happens

That's not logical.
You have two possibility :

• Weapons pip should influence damage but in this case you nerf to the ground hull tank meta...
• Pip should have no influence at all except recharge the distributor

In this second scenario you would have a perfect balance between Hull and Shield
Pip would only serve to :
- Increase regeneration rate

Wep to fire more often
Eng to boost more often (but no draw back on maneuverability)
Sys to recharge the system (Heat sink, Chaff and help to compensate the draw of the shield regeneration but not increase shield strength)

ex : https://coriolis.io/outfit/adder
Shield 0 pip : 78
Shield 4 pip : 195

Hull : wait there is not PIP !

Eng 0 pip : yaw : 6°/S / Pitch : 45°/s / Roll : 17°/S
Eng 4 pip : yaw : 14°/S / Pitch : 100°/s / Roll : 38°/S

Wep : Doesn't change anything. (Nothing on Rof, nothing on damage unlike Eng or Sys...) HELP recharge faster and prevent heat !


The goal is to balance Hull and Shield ship.
Diversity will never hurt a game !

A lot of people here want to keep the current statut about pip managment => Ok

Another proposal : Modification for the hull
- SYS Pip will help you hull to be stronger (nanotech if you want for the lore ^^) [Only without shield or with a broken shield so you will not destroy phasing]
0 pip : *1 (Current value)
2 pip : *2 ?
4 pip : *3 ?
May need some tweak on the value

Add in game some HCB (Hull patch like SCB but for Hull) Nano bot who can heal your hull (Nano tech again)
Passive or active. [Passive all time but small amount active : burst of heal but few charges]

You can even imagine some specifique hull : self heal but less tanky, etc.... (same patern as biweave and prisma)

Now we can take a fresh start about the balance with another proposition

 

[Tetra Trash]

With 4 pips to weapons the capacitor charges more quickly and you can in fact fire your weapons more often, no?

 

[Fitz0uille]

It's just a faster charges of your capacitor you can't fire more often cause you are limited by the ROF of your weapons...
If you have 1 pip and the charge rate of your wep >= your EPS you will fire as much as if you have 4 pip in wep !

You can't test that with any ship and frag / MC. if you have 1 pip you will be able to fire as you want but you WILL not fire more if you put 4 pip in wep !

ex : https://coriolis.io/outfit/adder
Shield 0 pip : 78
Shield 4 pip : 195

Eng 0 pip : yaw : 6°/S / Pitch : 45°/s / Roll : 17°/S
Eng 4 pip : yaw : 14°/S / Pitch : 100°/s / Roll : 38°/S

Wep : Doesn't change anything. (Nothing on Rof, nothing on damage unlike Eng or Sys...)

You can add than all Hull ship can't use pip to increase their hull (That why Shield meta is always above Hull meta).

 

[Stellar Shepherd]

You gain less heat the more pips you have in WEP, IE your weapons have better heat efficiency.

 

[RellTyr]

To be completely frank, you're right.

You gain less heat the more pips you have in WEP, IE your weapons have better heat efficiency.

I have pulse lasers and seekers that have barely any thermal load on them, weapons pips does only seem to recharge quicker and deplete slower (but this could be buffed) SYS and ENG are fine.

 

[CMDR Cknarf]

Yeah, let’s not fiddle with the core mechanics that actually work lol

 

[elfrager]

it's a wonderful suggest. Actually a lot of cmdr use FDL because of the hudge shield, but with this the FDL will be egal to FAS, Chieftain, clipper…
One of the best suggest i have read for an easiest work to Frontier Dev
congratulation

 

[elfrager]

You gain less heat the more pips you have in WEP, IE your weapons have better heat efficiency.

no , pip weapon have no effect on heat efficiency. The heat weapon is hottest when your weapon distibutor is in the last 30% of capacity. If you are in 30% left you can use 1 , 2 , 3 ou 4 pip the heat increase will be the same

 

[Fitz0uille]

Yeah, let’s not fiddle with the core mechanics that actually work lol

Hmmm since you will just remove modification it will not broke everything. it will just add balance to the game

 

[Douglas Reynholm]

no , pip weapon have no effect on heat efficiency. The heat weapon is hottest when your weapon distibutor is in the last 30% of capacity. If you are in 30% left you can use 1 , 2 , 3 ou 4 pip the heat increase will be the same

Pips to weapons increases weapon cooling capability allowing it to fire for longer and not overheat. I think that is what the guy was on about.

 

[Douglas Reynholm]

It's just a faster charges of your capacitor you can't fire more often cause you are limited by the ROF of your weapons...
If you have 1 pip and the charge rate of your wep >= your EPS you will fire as much as if you have 4 pip in wep !

I see you haven't gotten onto the large ships yet. Weapons recharge is extremely important in combat, especially when using 2 huge, long range, thermal vent, beam lasers. My lasers overheat fairly quickly when firing everything at 4 pips to weapons. If you had a ship that could fire beams for 5 seconds with 1 pip and like a minute at 4 pips, your rate of fire will be higher as you aren't waiting for weapons to cool (or partially firing weapons).

The system works fine as it is.

 

[Fitz0uille]

I see you haven't gotten onto the large ships yet. Weapons recharge is extremely important in combat, especially when using 2 huge, long range, thermal vent, beam lasers. My lasers overheat fairly quickly when firing everything at 4 pips to weapons. If you had a ship that could fire beams for 5 seconds with 1 pip and like a minute at 4 pips, your rate of fire will be higher as you aren't waiting for weapons to cool (or partially firing weapons).

The system works fine as it is.

I didn't say that it's not important I saided that is not balance when you compare the effect vs SYS or ENG !
And NO your ROF will not change with pip it's a fix variable !!

You don't have to wait weapons cooling if you manage heat well...

And i guess you are not a PvP player so this ajustement will change nothing for you...

 

[Ian Doncaster]

I quite like the way it is with each capacitor responding differently
SYS: significant passive benefit from pips, but in most circumstances the recharge rate of the capacitor isn't all that relevant (giant biweaves aside), current fullness only indirectly important so long as you have some
ENG: some passive benefit from pips (significant in some ships, moderate in others), fairly important recharge rate, used in large blocks so current fullness matters
WEP: no passive benefit from pips, recharge rate extremely important, current fullness has side-effects on heat generation

What does need rebalancing as a result, however, is the respective power distributor engineering modifications - even if its downsides were completely removed, System Focused would still be incredibly niche. Having equally-numbered System/Engine/Weapon Focused blueprints doesn't account for the different behaviours. (And Charge Enhanced is just massively out-of-line with the rest, of course)

 

[Douglas Reynholm]

I didn't say that it's not important I saided that is not balance when you compare the effect vs SYS or ENG !
And NO your ROF will not change with pip it's a fix variable !!

You don't have to wait weapons cooling if you manage heat well...

And i guess you are not a PvP player so this ajustement will change nothing for you...

As I said in my example, firing weapons with 0 pips can drain the capacitor causing weapons to overheat and stop firing. Keeping the capacitor active with placing pips on weapons will mean your ROF will be in line with that of the fixed variable you mentioned. If it's drained, the ROF over all of your weapons decreases (as some lasers may stop firing, or you have to wait for them to recharge). If the capacitor isn't recharged (i.e no pips to WEP and capacitor completely drained) the weapons will not fire causing your ROF to reach 0.

 

[RamirezKurita]

I see you haven't gotten onto the large ships yet. Weapons recharge is extremely important in combat, especially when using 2 huge, long range, thermal vent, beam lasers. My lasers overheat fairly quickly when firing everything at 4 pips to weapons. If you had a ship that could fire beams for 5 seconds with 1 pip and like a minute at 4 pips, your rate of fire will be higher as you aren't waiting for weapons to cool (or partially firing weapons).

The system works fine as it is.

Except that in practice, a significant amount of high-end builds just use full efficient weapons or kinetics so that they never have to take any pips out of their shields. A basic setup of OC multicannons on the C3/4 hardpoints and efficient pulses on the C1/C2 hardpoints can pretty much maintain fire for as long as the target is in sights with just 2 pips to weapons on most ships.

Plus, if you compare an efficient build (whether efficient mods, or simply using kinetics) using a 4/2 split between shields and weapons against a high-consumption build using a 2/4 split between shields and weapons, then the efficient one would win handily in a slugging match simply due to the massive defensive boost it receives compared to the extra firepower the 4 weapon pip build has.

 

[Fitz0uille]

Don't forget this will impact only PVP player not PVE players !

 

[TEBORI]

You can't test that with any ship and frag / MC. if you have 1 pip you will be able to fire as you want but you WILL not fire more if you put 4 pip in wep !

you will
cause the heat part kicks fully in here.

the value how much the wep distributor is loaded decides directly how many heat your ship is generating per shot.
so the pips in weps not only load the energy for the next shot but also decide if you overheat or not.
this is important for all ToT weapons
you can use heatsinks to load your wep distributor about 30% also related to this.

we have more or less a good balance atm in all contexts of pvp imho except a very few broken things like TC
so i would personally suggest keep the mechanics as they are in the actuel state.

 

[elfrager]

you will
cause the heat part kicks fully in here.

the value how much the wep distributor is loaded decides directly how many heat your ship is generating per shot.
so the pips in weps not only load the energy for the next shot but also decide if you overheat or not.
this is important for all ToT weapons
you can use heatsinks to load your wep distributor about 30% also related to this.

we have more or less a good balance atm in all contexts of pvp imho except a very few broken things like TC
so i would personally suggest keep the mechanics as they are in the actuel state.

a good balance atm… seriously akuma ? 95% of the pvp ship are fdl or mamba on wing fights !
with this suggest fdl with 3000 mj shield is egal to fas with 3000 mj hull because pip do not power up the shield value.
With this suggest all the ship will be balance (clipper also lol)

 

[Danieros]

Builds that generate a lot of heat do feel the wep pips effect.

 

[TEBORI]

a good balance atm… seriously akuma ? 95% of the pvp ship are fdl or mamba on wing fights !
with this suggest fdl with 3000 mj shield is egal to fas with 3000 mj hull because pip do not power up the shield value.
With this suggest all the ship will be balance (clipper also lol)

wait so you suggest to change the effect of sys distributor that the shield multiplier is dropped?

it would be so easy to bring the fdl and mamba in balance, just allow 4 of 6 util slots where shield boosters can be mounted.