Engineers Hull / Armour... I am confsed

Hello,

I just unlocked SELENE JEAN to work my way to Didi Vatermann. I am a bit confused about the Hull/Armour mechanics. They both affect the Bulkheads, correct?
Do I have to decide between Hull or Armour mods? I kinda dont know the difference between the two, probably because English is not my mother tongue. Can you help me out on this? Thx!!!

Cheers CMDR WaterKant
 
One is armor - your ship's outer layers and their composition.

The other is for hull reinforcement, internal space you choose to not use for modules like cargo space or shield generators, but use for additional bracing and reinforcement so your ship will be able to take more punishment.
 
Also, one protects internals more, and one doesn't. Or maybe that's not how it works.

Honestly, it's confusing as hell.
 
The problem i am having with her upgrade is as follows:

You get Modify Your Module, but under that i can only modify armour which i have done.

If you go to browse all you can see the ability to modify hull reinforcements but i only get the option to pin blue prints not to modify the hull.

So i can modify module, i can choose (heavy duty armour) select it and modify but no option under here for the hull.

Is this either one or the other or can you modify both?
 
You need to have fitted a 'hull reinforcement package' in a module slot. This will then show up as modable when you are at Selene's workshop.

edit: to clearify: modding the hull isn't actually modifying the base hull of your ship but an engineering opption for the hull reinforcement modules which are optional internals, which are used to up your armor at the expense oof other internals and more mass.
 
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As I understand it:
Armor (bulkheads)=reduces the damage you take depending on the type (military is a flat 50% to all damage types, mirrored is 75 against thermal, weaker against kinetic, etc)
Hull reinforcement=increase hit points. (this has the same amount of effectiveness regardless of the damage type)
Engineers mess with this a little bit as I think some of the mods can make HRPs that increase resistance to certain damage types (haven't toyed with Selene much), but I may be remembering that incorrectly.

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The problem i am having with her upgrade is as follows:

You get Modify Your Module, but under that i can only modify armour which i have done.

If you go to browse all you can see the ability to modify hull reinforcements but i only get the option to pin blue prints not to modify the hull.

So i can modify module, i can choose (heavy duty armour) select it and modify but no option under here for the hull.

Is this either one or the other or can you modify both?

I believe you can modify both. You can modify the bulkheads or the hull reinforcement package but you'll need to have some HRP fitted to see ithem show up to be modded in the default view of the engineer interface.

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Also, one protects internals more, and one doesn't. Or maybe that's not how it works.

Honestly, it's confusing as hell.

They both play a role in protecting modules. Armor reduces incoming damage so it always protects the modules the same regardless of how healthy your hull is. HRPs increase your hit points so it takes longer for your hull to get to lower percentages, higher hull percent provides more protection to modules.
 
"increase hit points"? What does this mean...

Has anyone measured the effectiveness of increasing the Kinetic resistance of the mirrored or prismatic armor?

I will soon be working on the ships armor and I haven't had the time to research it? Is there a thread that someone has done that discusses the different types of armor upgrades... The descriptions on INHRA don't really tell me anything.
 
"increase hit points"? What does this mean...

Has anyone measured the effectiveness of increasing the Kinetic resistance of the mirrored or prismatic armor?

I will soon be working on the ships armor and I haven't had the time to research it? Is there a thread that someone has done that discusses the different types of armor upgrades... The descriptions on INHRA don't really tell me anything.

It means just what it means, it will take more hits from any damage source to drop your hull %, your ship essentially has more health. Armor reduces the amount of damage you take, hull reinforcements (hit points) increase the amount of damage you can take.

There is a lot of very interesting and useful information here: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...ussion-with-Mark-Allen-on-damage-and-defenses
 
it is a bit confusing. thank you all for the explanations. My Python is pretty well engineerd. Many grade 5. I love it now.
The other day though i was in open and went to a CG station. Bad idea, got killed within seconds. Missile attack. Any effective hull upgrades for that?
 
That would probably be reverberating cascade that destroys the shield module. Missiles also do lots of damage to external modules now so your thrusters go and you are defenceless.

Only counter is ECM or point defence.
 
it is a bit confusing. thank you all for the explanations. My Python is pretty well engineerd. Many grade 5. I love it now.
The other day though i was in open and went to a CG station. Bad idea, got killed within seconds. Missile attack. Any effective hull upgrades for that?

You were possibly taken out by a pack hound missile.

Beta 2.2 (4) Change Log refers to you question and i quote it here in full:

ECM balance tweaks: guided missiles and torpedos hit by an ECM charge will now gain a major drunk effect if they did not already have it, causing them to veer off target most of the time. Technically you can still be struck, but previously ECM'ed torpedos would maintain an almost straight trajectory which for ships unable to dodge would mean they got hit anyway
- Dedicated keybinding for ECM. CM do not have to be in a fire group, holding this down will charge the first ECM module on your ship that is ready to go, and releasing will fire it
- Experimental balance change reworking how heat weapons function, similar to our earlier proposal but adjusted with player feedback. Aim of the changes:
- Thermal diminishing returns cut in much harder, previously they would start at 60% and prevent you going over 190%, whereas they will now start at 65% and prevent you going over 95% (down from 80%/120% in our earlier proposal). This means that heat from external attacks alone can never cause module or hull damage
- The heat effects of Thermal Shock are doubled
- The heat effects of Thermal Cascade are 25% more than they are on live (the previous beta heat nerf is being reversed, and then a small buff), combined with a slight nerf to PackHounds to stop them being so superior to other missiles
The goal here is for heat not to be a primary damage mechanism, but be there to punish your target for doing things that generate heat spikes such as SCBs, boosting or firing the hotter weapons. We also want to make it so that it is never worthwhile to stack a lot of heat weapons together: You will get the new full effect from a smaller number of weapons than before, but it can never get anywhere near as deadly and stacking more weapons beyond that point is counterproductive
- Drop the damage of packhound missiles slightly, from 9 per missile to 7.5. They're doing slightly more damage than we wanted given their relative immunity to point defences, and dwarfing normal missile launchers
 
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With the engineers these factors have become quite meaningless, since so many mechanics just bypass their effects. I wouldn't put too much resources into it. I have an armoured FAS - all it does is increasing the TTK you while you try to reboot your thrusters / FSD / systems. GG engineers.
 
Okay, here we go:

There's another benefit to having more hull points, and it's armor state. See that percentage of your hull? It doesn't only display your remaining health, it also displays the state of your armor. At 100% hull, your armor protects internals well. If your hull drops lower, your armor is damaged and it's easier to penetrate it, thus making more module damage.

Internal modules are protected by armor. Resistance applies here, I think.

External modules are not. The only way to protect your external modules (guns, utilities, engines and cockpit) is to angle your ship well, to use point defence/ecm/chaff/stealth or to install armor mods (sturdy weapons, armored powerplant, streghtened drives).

B-rated modules have more base armor than A-rated. On the Anaconda, I try to get B-rated powerplant if possible even on non-hulltank builds because it's positioned in front and is very exposed.


Now, selene jean and her mods:

First, basic bulkhead upgrades.

Each ship has default amount of hull, default armor hardness and default resistances.

Every hull is weaker against kinetic weaponry but well protected against thermal. Lasers also have very bad armor penetration.
Cannons have the best armor penetration and are overall the best weapons for sniping specific modules of large ships.

Lightweight hulls are the basic thing.
Military increases the base hull amount and resistance against all damage.
Reactive increases hull amount aswell, and adds even more kinetic protection, however thermal protection is worse. Mirrored does the opposite to your resistances.

Now, Selene Jean's mods for bulkheads can increase the bulkhead armor and resistances.
Hull reinforcement upgrades can increase the hull bonus of each HRP separately, their resistance bonuses, but there's also a chance that they will increase your armor hardness.

Those all stack together. Armor and resistances of bulkheads are combined together with hull reinforcements. My Anaconda has total of around 60% resistance against all types of damage, as well as hull boosted from 3000 to 5000. I tried turning my shield off and attacking Deadly/Elite Anacondas, they usually do 4-6% hull damage and 2-5% powerplant damage before they die.

Bulkheads themselves are not that important, it's just one module. Stacking resistances is the best rhing you can do - so, put heavy duty mods on hull reinforcements and bulkheads. Make sure to get the best overall resistances (you can't go over 75%, and going over 60% is harder because dimishing returns apply).


TL;DR: if you want to make your hull really powerful, install military bulkheads and several hull reinforcements (4-5 is good), and put heavy duty G5 mod on everything. Add some point defence for module protection (2 for big ships, 1 for smaller), make sure they're covering the same zone as your weapons (for example, Corvette's huge hardpoints are on top, and you need to keep your enemy slightly above, so put your point defence turrets on upper slots). Chaff helps a lot, stealth doesn't work in PVE at all.

If you spot a mistake in my post, alert me.
 
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