Hull mass / armour strength balance

Vedmo

Vedmo
I know you engineer hull to improve armor, and different hulls have different armor values (military, etc.). The two are definitely related. In general, increases to armor increase hull mass, and it just doesn't make sense for 400 t hull armor values to vary so much between ships.

I've seen in game where shields, thrusters, FSD(?) & thrusters have a stated correlation to hull mass, is there anything game-wise that actually presents armor being proportional to hull mass though?
 
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El-bizor

El-bizor
the Gist is that the Anaconda should be a heavyweight ship, it is in every way apart from its official weight. Everything about it; the way it handles, its drift, its speed with 7a thrusters, its huge amount of armour- says it should be 800-1,000t.
But it magically only weighs 400t giving it a jumps range of 70ly
more than specialist explorer ships!
 

popuptoaster

P
Elbizor said:
more than specialist explorer ships!
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Huge jump range is not a prerequisite of exploration vessels, you need endurance not speed if you want to explore so that comparison means nothing. The 'Condas huge jump range has pushed the frontier of systems we can reach out a bit further than it otherwise would be but mostly it's used by players impatient to get places.

It's terrible for actual exploration, it's slow and ponderous to manoeuvre within a system or down near a planetary body, the view out of the cockpit is rubbish, it has to many large compartments that you end up wasting so any player that wants to put up with all that is probably entitled to use it's jump capabilities without people moaning it's unfair.
 

Mengy

Mengy
popuptoaster said:
Huge jump range is not a prerequisite of exploration vessels, you need endurance not speed if you want to explore so that comparison means nothing. The 'Condas huge jump range has pushed the frontier of systems we can reach out a bit further than it otherwise would be but mostly it's used by players impatient to get places.

It's terrible for actual exploration, it's slow and ponderous to manoeuvre within a system or down near a planetary body, the view out of the cockpit is rubbish, it has to many large compartments that you end up wasting so any player that wants to put up with all that is probably entitled to use it's jump capabilities without people moaning it's unfair.
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Yep, explorers agree too. Oh, wait, the DWE2 roster...

ALNxSGY.jpg


It would seem like explorers love to fly "terrible ships" while out exploring. I'm sure it's not because the Anaconda has the best jump range in the entire game though...
 

El-bizor

El-bizor
popuptoaster said:
Huge jump range is not a prerequisite of exploration vessels, you need endurance not speed if you want to explore so that comparison means nothing. The 'Condas huge jump range has pushed the frontier of systems we can reach out a bit further than it otherwise would be but mostly it's used by players impatient to get places.

It's terrible for actual exploration, it's slow and ponderous to manoeuvre within a system or down near a planetary body, the view out of the cockpit is rubbish, it has to many large compartments that you end up wasting so any player that wants to put up with all that is probably entitled to use it's jump capabilities without people moaning it's unfair.
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Yeah, you can see from that list just how unpopular the anaconda is with explorers
 

RamirezKurita

R
Mengy said:
Yep, explorers agree too. Oh, wait, the DWE2 roster...

https://i.imgur.com/ALNxSGY.jpg

It would seem like explorers love to fly "terrible ships" while out exploring. I'm sure it's not because the Anaconda has the best jump range in the entire game though...
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To be fair, that's is the Deep Worlds Expedition. It's a big exploration trip to a far off place where large jump ranges are required to get there in any reasonable time. Now, if there were to be a large exploration trip organised off to Barnards Loop or the Coal Sack, then you would see a much larger range of ships represented, as the bulk of the trip would be about scanning stuff rather than simply getting to the destination.
 

bm01

B
Mengy said:
I doubt Frontier will ever fix it though, the ship is too popular. Which is of course due to how broken it is...
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Or maybe because it's the only large multipurpose ship that's easy to get and that doesn't have any annoying drawback, such has a relatively short jump range or ~7.5 seconds 360° "pitch turn".
Even if the Anaconda was 200t heavier with 200 less armor it would still be extremely popular.
 

Vasious

Vasious
If one was looking at hull health to mass wanting figures that make sense, surely shape structure thickness and angles would have to be factored in rather than just HP per tonne, otherwise you might fix the Anaconda but screw over the small ships.

Your table gives the Hauler 25% of its Current HP, Halves the Sidewinders, and reduces the Adders and Couriers to a third.

Or if you give then the hull to keep the HP they will be very poorly performing due to now undersized engines, shields, and FDSs for their internals
 
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Spandexxx

Spandexxx
Not sure how accurate that roster is given that 3 people were apparently flying the Krait... :)

EDIT: As for the Anaconda and it's magical armour. Sure, it's a bit of an outlier but is it a gamebreaker? I don't think so. It's not like everyone is flying it at the expense of all other ships. Sure it's popular but it's also the only 'big' ship that isn't rank locked so it's going to be popular. I suppose I might be biased as it's my favourite ship (though, it has to be said, not my most flown - Not even in my top 3 at the moment) but I say "Leave our Annie alone!".
 
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Numenor1379

Numenor1379
Spandexxx said:
Not sure how accurate that roster is given that 3 people were apparently flying the Krait... :)

EDIT: As for the Anaconda and it's magical armour. Sure, it's a bit of an outlier but is it a gamebreaker? I don't think so. It's not like everyone is flying it at the expense of all other ships. Sure it's popular but it's also the only 'big' ship that isn't rank locked so it's going to be popular. I suppose I might be biased as it's my favourite ship (though, it has to be said, not my most flown - Not even in my top 3 at the moment) but I say "Leave our Annie alone!".
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The Conda has the best jump range, best passenger capacity, high cargo, top DPS and isn't rank locked. It absolutely is in the top 3 and probably is the best overall ship in the game. The problem with it is it's armor, handling, speed, and mass lock factor are all scaled for a far heavier ship. But it retains the jump range of an overpowered medium ship.

Nothing will ever happen to it because Frontier are spineless when it comes to big nerfs, but it still should be recognized as a mistake in ship design.
 

EvoBeardy

EvoBeardy
Spandexxx said:
Not sure how accurate that roster is given that 3 people were apparently flying the Krait... :)

EDIT: As for the Anaconda and it's magical armour. Sure, it's a bit of an outlier but is it a gamebreaker? I don't think so. It's not like everyone is flying it at the expense of all other ships. Sure it's popular but it's also the only 'big' ship that isn't rank locked so it's going to be popular. I suppose I might be biased as it's my favourite ship (though, it has to be said, not my most flown - Not even in my top 3 at the moment) but I say "Leave our Annie alone!".
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I kinda guessed you owned an Anaconda due to your post. It's natural to have bias.

Although it doesn't stand true for everyone, the likelihood of those that don't think it's overpowered are owners of the Anaconda, or at the very least have someone in their group that favours one and it's semi-essential in some way.

On the outside perspective, it's absolutely overpowered, and it's crazy that it's gone on so long just to pander to players that would somehow be stranded in comparison, neglecting the other long-range Explorer Class ships. No they can't carry everything and the kitchen sink on a journey, but balance is compromise.
Which also holds true when new modules etc are introduced, Devs need to ensure it won't completely kill off certain ships which fit certain roles.

Balance will never happen if ships have to receive buffs to be in par with something so out of whack. Whether or not those ships need buffing should rely purely on something that's so far forward. The same stands for things constantly getting nerfed.
 

Chaparral

Chaparral
Thank you OP for making the evidence so clear. I love my condas. Especially with the new engineered G5DDs.

The DISADVANTAGE if the conda is that it's belly is SO FLIPPIN UGLY. That's game balance for ya.
 

Kamiyoda

Kamiyoda
Commander Danicus said:
Thank you OP for making the evidence so clear. I love my condas. Especially with the new engineered G5DDs.

The DISADVANTAGE if the conda is that it's belly is SO FLIPPIN UGLY. That's game balance for ya.
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Honestly if it didnt have the belly it would be one of my favorite ships aesthically.
 
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