Engineers Hull upgrades.

tclancey

T
Hi there.

As far as I know, with my limited knowledge, there are no engineers for hull upgrades. Or I should say I haven't been introduced to any.

So, is the Guardian hull tech worth having? Most things have a plus and minus column, I don't want to spend materials on a downgrade.

I'm not really interested in fighting the funny leafy things, unless they start to seriously intrude on my flying, which I can't see happening any time soon.

Thanks.
 

Daynen

D
"Sadly?" You mean "luckily." Any more defense stacking and people will have to use plasma accelerators on EVERYTHING just to do any damage at all...

Also, I recommend heavy duty upgrades for standard armor, since the weight penalty is reduced to zero on your 0 weight armor...free resistances and health for no additional weight!
 

Bob Lighthouse

Banned
Bob Lighthouse
GeoDanger said:
https://inara.cz/galaxy-engineer/8/

Well worth the visit. All my hulls and Hull reinforcements are G5. Depending on the ship I go with different types of upgrades but typically have some pure Heavy duty HRPs on all ships I do combat in.
I haven't got the guardian one yet so I'll leave that to others to reply on.
Click to expand...



Same here.
My most common mods are:
HD/deep plating on the stock LW bulkheads
Reactive with HD/deep + 1 small thermal/deep HRP
Reactive with thermal/deep

edit also Reactive LW/deep with one thermal/deep hrp.
 
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Solsticide

Solsticide
The only benefit to Guardian HRPs is the caustic resistance, which is only 5% per module. I don't know how useful that is in practice as I haven't fought a Thargoid yet, but I'd imagine that G5 standard HRPs are lot better. Plus you can't engineer the Guardian stuff. At least, not yet.
 

Aashenfox

Aashenfox
Lightweight mod on lightweight bulkheads is generally better for the balanced armor resists (this relies on having at least 3 HRPs engineered for heavy duty). The only difference between lightweight and heavy duty is about 200 pure armor on a medium ship, which when you're at 3000 (my Chief) is a drop in the ocean, the resist balancing counts for more.

I you go reinforced or military, this continues to be the case, and adds the advantage of increasing speed and jump range by lihtening one of the heaviest parts of the ship.

Only if you go reactive should you go with any other bulkhead mod than lightweight and if you do that, then you'll be going thermal resist and layered plating, with at least 3 heavy duty HRPs with Force block. This should leave you with 43% armor resist to all. The lightweight on lightweight with 4 heavy duty force block HRPs gives you 30% explosive resist, 39% kinetic resist and 40% therm resist.

I'm happy to provide coriolis builds to explain all this if anyone is curious. The math is undeniable.
 

Bob Lighthouse

Banned
Bob Lighthouse
Aashenfox said:
Lightweight mod on lightweight bulkheads is generally better for the balanced armor resists (this relies on having at least 3 HRPs engineered for heavy duty). The only difference between lightweight and heavy duty is about 200 pure armor on a medium ship, which when you're at 3000 (my Chief) is a drop in the ocean, the resist balancing counts for more.

I you go reinforced or military, this continues to be the case, and adds the advantage of increasing speed and jump range by lihtening one of the heaviest parts of the ship.

Only if you go reactive should you go with any other bulkhead mod than lightweight and if you do that, then you'll be going thermal resist and layered plating, with at least 3 heavy duty HRPs with Force block. This should leave you with 43% armor resist to all. The lightweight on lightweight with 4 heavy duty force block HRPs gives you 30% explosive resist, 39% kinetic resist and 40% therm resist.

I'm happy to provide coriolis builds to explain all this if anyone is curious. The math is undeniable.
Click to expand...


Force block is for shield gens/boosters.
Reactive w/ HD/deep + 1 thermal/deep hrp, and the rest HD/deep should give better numbers than anything else.
(Apologies in advance for long links, but edsy is more accurate)

http://www.edshipyard.com/new/#/L=C...H50wPc4zmfAqpDEqpDIqpD12GGBH44qpD8oPcEwPcGoPc

vs

http://www.edshipyard.com/new/#/L=C...Pc4zmfAqpDEqpDIqpD12GG5H50wPc4zmfAqpDEqpDIqpD


You get about 300 HP advantage going HD on the reactives, and resistances are close enough that the difference in effective is almost the same.

2600 raw/~4k effective vs 2300/3750 effective
 

Aashenfox

Aashenfox
Bob Lighthouse said:
Force block is for shield gens/boosters.
Reactive w/ HD/deep + 1 thermal/deep hrp, and the rest HD/deep should give better numbers than anything else.
(Apologies in advance for long links, but edsy is more accurate)

http://www.edshipyard.com/new/#/L=C...H50wPc4zmfAqpDEqpDIqpD12GGBH44qpD8oPcEwPcGoPc

vs

http://www.edshipyard.com/new/#/L=C...Pc4zmfAqpDEqpDIqpD12GG5H50wPc4zmfAqpDEqpDIqpD


You get about 300 HP advantage going HD on the reactives, and resistances are close enough that the difference in effective is almost the same.

2600 raw/~4k effective vs 2300/3750 effective
Click to expand...

I'll need to verify this on coriolis (I know it's formulas aren't prefect), I can't stand EDSY, back in a few days. :)
 
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Aashenfox

Aashenfox
Done it already, you're right, it's a small difference in practice, but better is better. Cheers.

P. S. For pve I'll stick with deep on bulks and heavy duty reflective all hrps. Cos thermal in pve is worth a touch more due to prevalence of lasers.
 

Bob Lighthouse

Banned
Bob Lighthouse
Aashenfox said:
Done it already, you're right, it's a small difference in practice, but better is better. Cheers.

P. S. For pve I'll stick with deep on bulks and heavy duty reflective all hrps. Cos thermal in pve is worth a touch more due to prevalence of lasers.
Click to expand...


Do what you will but NPCs often use missiles once shields are down and you have less absolute and effective thermal using anything but the way I laid out, afaik.

This is because you will run into diminishing returns on resistances with multiple HRPs.

It's almost 1k hp difference with the thermal resistance, just by using HD deep on the bulkheads and a single thermal HRP, in the example I made above.

That's a pretty significant difference, and the individual resistances are an illusion since you lose hull reinforcement.
 

Aashenfox

Aashenfox
Bob Lighthouse said:
Do what you will but NPCs often use missiles once shields are down and you have less absolute and effective thermal using anything but the way I laid out, afaik.

This is because you will run into diminishing returns on resistances with multiple HRPs.

It's almost 1k hp difference with the thermal resistance, just by using HD deep on the bulkheads and a single thermal HRP, in the example I made above.

That's a pretty significant difference, and the individual resistances are an illusion since you lose hull reinforcement.
Click to expand...

I think I can say it simpler based on my observations. With 3 hrps you are just touching diminishing returns, go for resistance, with 4 its a toss up and with 5, armor cos you're well into DR. I use point defense and don't find missile spam a problem, and in pve rarely face PAs that I can't easily avoid, but yeh im not disagreeing, you're quite right.

Edit: another way to say it could be: stack resistance on hrps up to about 37%,after which armor would give more effective health.
 
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