Engineers I can't believe I'm saying this. But engineers has sucked the fun right out of the game.

You know mostly Elite has been one of my favorite games. But it seems that game developers seem to take great games that are going good, and then they screw things up royal. WoW did the same after Lich King. They made the game all about end game only, making it in my opinion no fun at all.
Well, now it's Frontier's turn. I've been stubborn for a while trying to adapt to engineers. It's not that I mind engineering, I just mind so damn much of it. It's a constant grind and struggle that never seems to end. I feel like everything I do in the game is all about engineers now. Frontier overdid engineering so much that it's sucked all of the fun right out of the game. Doing some engineering, ok. I can deal with that. But having to devote so much time to engineering every little module is such a waste of time. Like I said, we have to do it so much that engineering literally sucks all the fun out of the game. I'm always having to do engineering so much that I'm doing nothing else, it's either that or not have a competitive ship that can survive the game PVP or PVE.
I've been stubborn because I like the game so much that I've stuck with it even though there's so much engineering to do constantly. When I think about playing the game, I think I've got to go gather mats and that takes the desire to play right out of me. I was bummed when other dedicated Elite players left for the same reason. But you know what. They're right. Engineering took the fun right out of the game. I don't even like earning and buying and outfitting new ships anymore. Because I've got to go start grinding mats again for every ship I buy. I'm sorry, but Frontiers sure taken the joy right out of this game. And Elite is totally right up my ally as far as games are concerned. It's the ultimate space adventure game.
Frontier just sucked the fun right out of it for me right when they're introducing aliens, because who has time for aliens or anything else when we've got to go gather mats for engineering ad naseum and then do it all over again when Frontier decides to change the specs again. Engineering could be a good thing. Frontier just way overdid it. Heck, we can't even buy the mats. We've got to do all this stupid grinding constantly. Hell, even after they made it easier by taking out the commodities it's still too much of a grind. Sometimes I wish there was someone I could trust to take over my account and do the engineering for me. Now that's desperate. We'll see how it goes. But for right now, when I get the desire to play Elite, I think of engineering, and I shake my head and walk away before I even start the game, because I just don't seem to have fun playing anymore. Sorry about that gang.
Asta.
 
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Seriously though, if you don't like them .. just ignore.

It's marginal, edge case stuff. If you want to explore (but haven't engineered your ship) you can still go .. and even if you want to fight PvP (but haven't engineered weps and shields) you can still high wake out and escape if you need to - no engineering required.

People have got very wound up about Engineers for some reason I recognise. But they were a 100% necessary add from the techicality point of view - damage models - because now your modules have floating point values, which means they can run at % effieciency when damaged (when ED released, modules worked at 100% until receiving too much damage, then died dead flat). RNG only means they're distinct from shipyard outfitting - where you know what you're going to get and emulates an experimentals edge - and materials are found all over the place. It's only if you're after a specific blueprint that any searching comes into it .. and then it's only a special version of finding a shipyard with a 6A powerplant etc.

I think a few people started banging on about Engineers - and that's led some others to assume it's something awful - first impressions and so on. But look at them with an open mind? I really can't see what the fuss is about and in fact personally think they add a nice level of strategic complexity (which upgrade first?). Better than good.
 
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I think the biggest flaw with the engineers is the double gated nature of it all- RNG to find things, and RNG for results. For me, I hope FD now understand that the fun of engineering is the tinkering part, and experimenting. If it takes days to collect materials that randomly drop (or not) and they are wasted by the RNG that saps enthusiasm stone dead.

Ideally all blueprints need to have the material cost rebalanced, so that people can simply go and do it without the dread of having to scour the galaxy for more.
 
OP you have to kick the habit. Now!. Sounds like you've become an addict.

I agree Engineers are a horrible, totally over the top, addition, but, as others have said already in this thread, you can play the game just fine without Engineering. Certainly if you play PvE. In PvE combat, depending on your combat rank you might have to run away from NPCs a bit more than before Engineers but that's it. If you want to PvP you must Engineer I'm afraid, unless you like losing a lot.
 
Seriously though, if you don't like them .. just ignore.

It's marginal, edge case stuff. If you want to explore (but haven't engineered your ship) you can still go .. and even if you want to fight PvP (but haven't engineered weps and shields) you can still high wake out and escape if you need to - no engineering required.

People have got very wound up about Engineers for some reason I recognise. But they were a 100% necessary add from the techicality point of view - damage models - because now your modules have floating point values, which means they can run at % effieciency when damaged (when ED released, modules worked at 100% until receiving too much damage, then died dead flat). RNG only means they're distinct from shipyard outfitting - where you know what you're going to get and emulates an experimentals edge - and materials are found all over the place. It's only if you're after a specific blueprint that any searching comes into it .. and then it's only a special version of finding a shipyard with a 6A powerplant etc.

I think a few people started banging on about Engineers - and that's led some others to assume it's something awful - first impressions and so on. But look at them with an open mind? I really can't see what the fuss is about and in fact personally think they add a nice level of strategic complexity (which upgrade first?). Better than good.

Not an option if you like pvp or just plain play Open only. Frankly I think it wouldn't be so bad without the RNG element.
 
Not an option if you like pvp or just plain play Open only. Frankly I think it wouldn't be so bad without the RNG element.

It is an option though. I play Open exclusively and all engineering means is that my list of viable targets is slighlty reduced. Plus you're never sure which ones, so that's kind of exciting imo. Meaning; in you're ship, you soon learn sidewinders and eagles are manageable - vipers and cobras aren't, for example. Engineers just make that judgement call fuzzier .. good thing.
 
I actually like engineers too- I view PvE now as a sandbox where I push ships to the limit and see how much I can get away with.

Currently I'm making fat and lean versions of the Corvette. One is armoured up the eyeballs, the other cruises at 305 and boosts to 397. I made a bounty hunting Keelback and T-6, and all sorts of crazy things.
 
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I think a few people started banging on about Engineers - and that's led some others to assume it's something awful - first impressions and so on. But look at them with an open mind? I really can't see what the fuss is about and in fact personally think they add a nice level of strategic complexity (which upgrade first?). Better than good.

Sorry, but Engineers has not fallen victim to a negative campaign by a few people who didn't like it, as you seem to suggest. I have followed (and participated in) many threads on Engineers and my impression is that the feature is disliked (sometimes hated) by a large group of players and liked (even loved) by an equally large group of players. So all in all I think its fair to say Engineers is a very controversial feature.
 
I detest the implementation of Engineers in it's current form. No sane human being would jump around the galaxy this way looking for minerals and metals and the like. It's pure mind-numbing boredom in my opinion.

And, not to toot my own horn, but I'm still convinced my suggestion (link below) would be a much better way to engineer our ships; and much less hassle.
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/335644-Bolt-On-Feature-Part-Suggestion-Part-Fun
 
And, not to toot my own horn, but I'm still convinced my suggestion (link below) would be a much better way to engineer our ships; and much less hassle.
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/335644-Bolt-On-Feature-Part-Suggestion-Part-Fun

That is a good looking feature. +1

I also take Cmdr Krieger's point - and in some way wonder if people look at the Engineers all at once and think to themselves, blimey those will take me something like a year to complete! All a matter of perspective agreed but - because I don't think engineer mods are "necessary" per se (only "desirable") .. if that's the case that's one year's worth of Quest content, right there?
 
That is a good looking feature. +1

I also take Cmdr Krieger's point - and in some way wonder if people look at the Engineers all at once and think to themselves, blimey those will take me something like a year to complete! All a matter of perspective agreed but - because I don't think engineer mods are "necessary" per se (only "desirable") .. if that's the case that's one year's worth of Quest content, right there?

Thank you. :)

I'm sure some do; others might share my sentiment though which is a general dislike or aversion to gambling.
I get materials I hand them over and I get totally random results. That's not game-play to me. That's not fun. I get no enjoyment out of the fact that my efforts might lead to nought simply by luck of the draw.
Engineers themselves should have been a second level attraction; only for people who really want to push the limit; I'm effectively unable to engineer my ship because of my aversion to the gambling mechanic it brings.
 
I actually like engineers too- I view PvE now as a sandbox where I push ships to the limit and see how much I can get away with.

Currently I'm making fat and lean versions of the Corvette. One is armoured up the eyeballs, the other cruises at 305 and boosts to 397. I made a bounty hunting Keelback and T-6, and all sorts of crazy things.

I guess it all boils down to what a player seeks in the game. I like like tinkering with ship loadouts too but not as my main activity (and certainly not if it requires so much time and the over-the-top results spoil my sense of a sane game world). In ED I want to make space adventures (exploration, combat, trade, aliens, ...) aka something to do WITH my ship not something to do TO my ship.
 
I agree, as a second level. The reason I think this - is because of the fuzziness factor; say you're hit with a thermal effect .. as victim you don't exactly know how powerful that effect is .. it means you can't just look at the ship attacking and say, it's a sidewinder, I'll be fine because you might not be. Now you have to keep an eye on your ship systems to decide.

From the 'getting the upgrade' point of view, I'm sure you'll have heard about experimental tolerances and chaos unpredictability in those threads. While I like the idea you propose - too - I don't think there's as much game in it.

I've been watching a couple of the Cmdrs trying to push the limits of jump range .. and although you can argue it's a pain, they get (a) kudos for the fact that they took as many "rolls" as it took, to get that killer module and (b) there's no hard limit on the max possible jump range until you get a 100% roll on all three related modules .. which is basically never going to happen. The speed (jump distance) record then .. can still be being broken, way into the future.
 
It is an option though. I play Open exclusively and all engineering means is that my list of viable targets is slighlty reduced. Plus you're never sure which ones, so that's kind of exciting imo. Meaning; in you're ship, you soon learn sidewinders and eagles are manageable - vipers and cobras aren't, for example. Engineers just make that judgement call fuzzier .. good thing.

Not if you pvp. It simply isn't viable without a LOT of engineering.
 
I guess it all boils down to what a player seeks in the game. I like like tinkering with ship loadouts too but not as my main activity (and certainly not if it requires so much time and the over-the-top results spoil my sense of a sane game world). In ED I want to make space adventures (exploration, combat, trade, aliens, ...) aka something to do WITH my ship not something to do TO my ship.

I did exactly that with a clumsily engineered Corvette in Powerplay- it was a BGS killer, and quite often took on 8 ships at once. But I took a break from Powerplay, and wanted to 'git gud' with engineers (stuff I had no time for with Powerplay).
 
The truth of the matter is that we want it all. Elite was originally supposed to be about you as a pilot with only ONE ship. But people wanted more, so they let you have up to 35. Now, everyone is trying to engineer all 35, and it is becoming a grind. I would suggest for you to pick that one special ship in your heart and engineer the crap out of it. As you do activities and collect more mats, go for the next one. I understand PVP and the need to max everything on it, but if it is only one ship, it shouldn't be so hard as 35.
 
The truth of the matter is that we want it all. Elite was originally supposed to be about you as a pilot with only ONE ship. But people wanted more, so they let you have up to 35. Now, everyone is trying to engineer all 35, and it is becoming a grind. I would suggest for you to pick that one special ship in your heart and engineer the crap out of it. As you do activities and collect more mats, go for the next one. I understand PVP and the need to max everything on it, but if it is only one ship, it shouldn't be so hard as 35.

The rolls required for a single well built pvp ship is rather incredible and the results too random. Can it be done? Yes, but it isn't balanced and it isn't fun. Something needs to give.
 
Not an option if you like pvp or just plain play Open only. Frankly I think it wouldn't be so bad without the RNG element.

Yeah mate, if that casino was removed it would be more enjoyable. Like in many other games we get a blue print and then we can craft the item.
Here you not only need to get the materials, you also need to go through the wheel of fortune to get something out of it.

The whole UI is also not contributing to the experience. I love the bases, I love the whole design of the bases and what they made of it. The problem is that
when you get there, it all turns into casino 2.0 and de-attached from the game 100% in my mind. Well that is my opinion anyway.

If FDEV want to create some variety in the crafting, they could give each materials a value, depending on the value together with the other materials it gives you a fixed rated crafted item.
 
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