Engineers I dont despise the Engineers but...

[prd]

I dont despise the Engineers, applying low level mods is easy and helpful enough.
But as a casual player I feel there is no point to open play anymore.
Previously I could at least use fast ships, assess situations, watch Cillit Bang destroy condas in a viper.
I could hope to meet someone with a comparable ship and lose a fair fight, or to simply tease them with puny defiance and run.
I could load a Cobra4 with 2000 points of hull, whatever... when I've died, I've always died happy knowing I had my chance to do something and failed.
Now? I will simply die in 10 seconds in any scenario, because immensely OP mods, protected behind huge grindwall, outclassing everything in the standard game.
A sidey will outgun and outshield me, condas will run double my speed, they will prevent jumping and do many other tricks I dont even know about yet.
I know it's like citing Hitler, but it sadly reminds me of Eve and its T2/T3 crap that excludes anybody from really participating until they are Donald Duck in-game equivalents, with the difference that here you can't even have the stuff donated..
Endgame players have become absolute gods, while previously I felt that with the exception of gank wings, it was more or less a level playing field, at least most ships usually had a viable chance of reacting in some way when presented with unfavorable odds.

 

[CmdMarty]

I agree engineers have changed the game in a bad way and took aspects away from base game owners plus those that have time constraints so soon in this slow developed game as it might all work out but to far down the road for me. Balance is out of wack!

 

[goemon]

jep.

i suggested early on (2.1. beta) to at least open up the "enhanced performance thrusters" to non-horizon owners (a modul which you can simply buy at 3 engineer bases), so a non-horizons player could at least decide to take an adder/sidey/imperial eagle/courier/hauler to a CG in open to outrun engineer ships ... you know, what the cmkIII used to be.

@op if you have horizons, get them for your small ship ... you can buy them at outfitting at farseer, martuk and palin.

 

[Devlin-Darkside]

Yea ive popped back to see how things lay after quitting because of glaring problems.

Game still not heading in the direction I am looking for and after reading the forums for a bit I dont think it ever will be for me. Shame because I love the graphics and size of the universe ED created but the gameplay just seems to be all over the place. CQC, not trading with others, grindwall, open, solo, group, engineers.

None of it fits together.

 

[DukeIronHand]

Have some rep OP.
You are exactly correct. Been saying this forever.
A normal Cmdr doing normal things in normal ship has no place in Open.
If I want to fly in Open, and live more then a few hours in populated space, forget mining, forget trading, forget everything. You don't have the ship for it.

So instead I have to build (and engineer) some super duper combat only ship - good for nothing else in the game - and cruise around RES's or waiting for non-consensual PvP.
"Blaze your own trail" eh? Sounds like fun....not.

 

[CmdMarty]

The biggest fail of the engineers was the introduction of favors as an answer to the massive yowling from the community. Now it suddenly was possible, though still massive grind required, to max out engineered outcome. Without that you still could *try* to grind-max your modules but that would have need so massive amounts of time and then you still would need to be incredibly lucky to get what you want without greater downsides that these 'perfect modules' should have been extremely rare, let alone a whole ship full of perfect modules. That was one of the most shortsighted decisions from FD that counteracted the initial wonderful idea to death. And maybe one of the most tragic examples of what happens when a dev-team listens too closely to its fanbase.

Plus it puts a pay wall between the haves and the have nots, pretty much pay to win/grind. Before 2.1 the game was balanced and everyone had access to the same ships and upgrades but now with mods it makes ships different.

 

[Minoo Minou]

Yes, it's called progression. Somebody dedicating much game time and effort obtains more than somebody who doesn't.

I don't see the problem here.

 

[Gorkon_au]

I feel your pain

I dont despise the Engineers, applying low level mods is easy and helpful enough.
But as a casual player I feel there is no point to open play anymore.
Previously I could at least use fast ships, assess situations, watch Cillit Bang destroy condas in a viper.
I could hope to meet someone with a comparable ship and lose a fair fight, or to simply tease them with puny defiance and run.
I could load a Cobra4 with 2000 points of hull, whatever... when I've died, I've always died happy knowing I had my chance to do something and failed.
Now? I will simply die in 10 seconds in any scenario, because immensely OP mods, protected behind huge grindwall, outclassing everything in the standard game.
A sidey will outgun and outshield me, condas will run double my speed, they will prevent jumping and do many other tricks I dont even know about yet.
I know it's like citing Hitler, but it sadly reminds me of Eve and its T2/T3 crap that excludes anybody from really participating until they are Donald Duck in-game equivalents, with the difference that here you can't even have the stuff donated..
Endgame players have become absolute gods, while previously I felt that with the exception of gank wings, it was more or less a level playing field, at least most ships usually had a viable chance of reacting in some way when presented with unfavorable odds.

I can see the value of engineers but it's really only for those who can put the time into the absolute bxxx shxx grind ! Some advice for those who want to start upgrades, remove all sharp objects and firer arms from around your game station !! [knocked out]

What I really don't like is how FDEV is/has forced us to do this extremely grind, doing game play which you never enjoyed doing !! only so that we can compete on an equal bases against the AI NPC ships !!!!! [mad] And woe to you if want to do PvP and don't grind away !!! Just bend over and get the lube ready !!!

You might as well paint a bullseye and place a big neon sign on your ship stating "I have engineer commodities on board" as your interdiction rates climb through the roof which means good luck in attempting any other elite gameplay as you just get hounded out of the game by the npc's "all that tasty cargo" my record is 7 interdictions by 4 different NPC's flying only 126 ls !! Carrying 1 ton of EC's, mission reward, Yes i logged out and walk away after that !! [sour]

It's enough to drive you to play world of tanks !!! [woah]

I am sure FDEV has a sense of humour as let's nerf one of the best upgrades by removing the critical component (EFC) from the game to complete it and sit back and watch what happens !!! Ho sorry cmdrs is seems to be a bug, we will get right on it, Ha ha ha !! [zZzZz]

All commodities for ALL Blue prints should have been purchasable !!! But hey that would be unfair ! To whom ?? and now FDEV is talking about "rebalancing" because doh !! We didn't think cmdrs would build the most tankiest over the top ships possible !! And rampage through squadrons of npc ships atleast PvP still comes down to how many SCB and Heatsinks you have so nothing's really change on that score and hey if your losing there's alway the strategic combat log !

Engineers mods are good for the game, could it have been better thought out and implemented ? Yes ! [yesnod]

Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[White Shark]

Fully agree with the OP.

Engineers makes skill irrelevant. All engineers does is allow those with vast amounts of free time to turn their ship into an invincible one-shot-kill nightmare. They probably fly terribly, have no interest in avoiding incoming fire or bother trying to maneuver their ship when in battle. They simply absorb the fire and allow their modded turret to do the easy work.

 

[goemon]

only so that we can compete on an equal bases against the AI NPC ships !

sorry, but this isn't true. i have two accounts, one with, one without horizons (&engineers). you can perfectly play the game pve without any engineering - that includes combatzones and haz res.

OPs complain is valid, because the situation is different in open at places where a lot of players hang around (CG for exampel). but if you don't go there, because no engineering, you can as well play solo and/or group...

 

[goemon]

Yes, it's called progression. Somebody dedicating much game time and effort obtains more than somebody who doesn't.

I don't see the problem here.

this has always been the case; i still think FDEVs design pre 2.1., where one of the cheaper ships in the game, a cobra mkIII was at the same time the safiest ship (i have done an awfull lot of blockade running in open in it) was neat.

 

[Martind Forlon]

sorry, but this isn't true. i have two accounts, one with, one without horizons (&engineers). you can perfectly play the game pve without any engineering - that includes combatzones and haz res.

OPs complain is valid, because the situation is different in open at places where a lot of players hang around (CG for exampel). but if you don't go there, because no engineering, you can as well play solo and/or group...

crap, I'm out of +rep for you,so only "virtual" one this time . Nicely said and imo it perfectly fit. For Open (busy places) are engineers necessity, but I slowly finish three ships (been casual player too I think) and have no issues with this. I guess it depends about personal view about what it is grind and what it is have fun

btw: I really not get that if someone have engineer unlocked, he have issue get him to 5lvl [where is it] . It's much easier and faster as most of engineers unlocking.

 

[o'moylan]

The people who only have a few hours here or there to play the game don't have the time to engineer their ship ( not our fault ) You play the game long enough and you get bored. trade fly trade fight trade fly dock dock it just gets boring. For me I was bored till engineers came along. Now it forces me to play all aspects of the game to get the mats. It's a very deep game to me for this reason. Give the engineers a try ? Perhaps a few quick modifications to allow you to play the game your way ?

 

[Martind Forlon]

The people who only have a few hours here or there to play the game don't have the time to engineer their ship ( not our fault ) You play the game long enough and you get bored. trade fly trade fight trade fly dock dock it just gets boring. For me I was bored till engineers came along. Now it forces me to play all aspects of the game to get the mats. It's a very deep game to me for this reason. Give the engineers a try ? Perhaps a few quick modifications to allow you to play the game your way ?

Thing is that you do not have any goal what to do. So really try give a try to engineers and slowly upgrade your favourite ship. But make some plan/goal, put on paper things you need for "something" and then start do one by one, like today lets go for scanning surface bases, today I will go for mining missions, etc. etc. I know that this is criticised (as missing ingame info), but try do at least basic google search about commodity you want/need. You may find one or two or more activities which you may like do regularly.

 

[Flimley]

Imagine in sci-fi movies if all ships exploded within ten seconds. .. could be disappointing ?

Flimley

 

[Gorkon_au]

sorry, but this isn't true. i have two accounts, one with, one without horizons (&engineers). you can perfectly play the game pve without any engineering - that includes combatzones and haz res.

OPs complain is valid, because the situation is different in open at places where a lot of players hang around (CG for exampel). but if you don't go there, because no engineering, you can as well play solo and/or group...

I can only speak from my expirience which is 1 account and I only play in open. I am not combat orintated but my rank is dangerous only due to I been playing for so long. Pre 2.2 AI ships where competitive with my Python - jack of all trades 1 vs 1 and forget about Anna's and Ferdi, just run, never took on wings, it would just get me destroyed. Post 2.2 if Iam flying my Python I get only targeted by dangerous to elite NPC in modded ships which got to a stage where I now rarely use it for trading or missions, I use a semi modded asp with no guns but built for speed ! I am dreading the day when a npc modded clipper comes along !! Unless I willing to spam scbs and heat sinks in my Python just to high wake away from npc's, how is this good fun game play ? FDEV are forcing me into grinding upgrades for my Python just so as I can survive against the AI ? I will never be able to compete in PvP as I just not good enough pilot and I don't have the will or the time to grind upgrades to get any ship capable for PvP

so what choice do I have ? It seems FDEV has made it for me.

 

[Mephane]

Yes, it's called progression. Somebody dedicating much game time and effort obtains more than somebody who doesn't.

I don't see the problem here.

It's called power creep. Usually comes in cycles:

* Player get best equipment.
* Devs add new equipment behind big grind.
* Players get new best equipment.
* Devs add even better equipment behind another grind.
* Da capo.

It's a cheap way to keep players busy in the treadmill for a long, long time. They run and run but don't get anywhere, because all they ever achieve is keep up with the ever-escalating numbers on everything. Then eventually the gap between new players and veterans becomes insurmountable and the devs shorten the path to the second-highest stage.

 

[goemon]

so what choice do I have ? ... Unless I willing to spam scbs and heat sinks in my Python

you give an exampel by yourself.

I use a semi modded asp with no guns but built for speed !

this is a way for sure.

i have a mission running/trading python on my horizons accout, fully G5 engineered everything.

guess what i do, when i want to fight npc in it, instead of running (which i can with ease with a boost speed of 450 m/s or something): i fit a scb and a heatsink.

you are not willing to do so, you dislike the more challenging AI of 2.1./2.2., but all of that has nothing to do with engineering, it is the same with and without.

 

[LillyThorne]

I agree with the OP. For all it's faults, Eve is very cautious with changing the ship meta. E.g. ships bonuses are very small but accessible to all. With the Engineers they've shattered the balance in PVE and PVP. Open is now incredibly dangerous. PVE AI with engineer upgrades will wreck havoc. The grind wall...hmm...I wish the Dev's respected my in game time. If this was a racing game, I wouldn't have to mine my ore for the car upgrades and refine my own fuel. They need to concentrate on spaceships and ways for me to make pretty explosions. I don't mind work, but this is not fun.

 

[Jabezz]

It's called power creep. Usually comes in cycles:

* Player get best equipment.
* Devs add new equipment behind big grind.
* Players get new best equipment.
* Devs add even better equipment behind another grind.
* Da capo.

It's a cheap way to keep players busy in the treadmill for a long, long time. They run and run but don't get anywhere, because all they ever achieve is keep up with the ever-escalating numbers on everything. Then eventually the gap between new players and veterans becomes insurmountable and the devs shorten the path to the second-highest stage.

Yes I'd agree with this. I also personally think it's too easy to get the G5 modded combat items i.e. Weapons and shields. It has gradually been made easier and easier since it's original inception. First the acquisition of stuff was made easier by getting 3 lumps instead of 1, then came favours, now here comes commodity storage.

The end result is that without too much effort every Tom, and Harriet is cruising around in a star destroyer.

I appreciate everyone's definition of 'without too much effort' will vary but really can anyone honestly say getting a G5 rapid fire is that laborious?