Hardware & Technical I don't think gsync is working, why?

[disorganise]

Hi,
I bought an Asus gsync screen a few weeks ago as I was getting fed up with ED stuttering during the spinning ship bit and entering systems.
But I still get the stutter

I set windows to 120hz (screen can do 144 and 165, but considering I see sub 60 at times, no point). Enabled gsync for both full screen and window in nvidia panel.
Card is the msi sea hawk 1080, CPU is the older unlocked i5 (4690k) and 32GB ram. CPU usually below 80%, gpu doesn't seem stressed too much and SSD running fine.
I was playing borderless but switched to window as when I tested with the gsync logo showing, it didn't show on borderless. I like to run TCE and EDD so don't really want full screen (and it didn't fix the problem either cos I did try).
I also have an older 2nd screen running at 60hz, but that just shows EDD or browser, not the game.

I feel I'm missing a setting somewhere but don't know where to look. Is it windows, or a setting in game?
I've not tried any other games.... Frankly not played anything else in over 2 years so wouldn't know if they stutter.

Any pointers?

So far I doubled RAM, swapped out AMD R290x for the 1080 and bought the gsync screen.... And I still get stutter. Driving me nuts.

Edit... Noticed it auto-correct had replaced borderless with borderlands. So, err, corrected the auto-correct that got it incorrect

 

[CMDR MAIN SEQUENCE]

First, test that gsync is working by using the pendulum demo: http://www.nvidia.co.uk/coolstuff/demos#!/g-sync

I remember a guy a few weeks back saying that with his monitor gsync would only kick in when vsync was disabled (which is odd, the two should happily co-exist), so you could trying disabling vsync in the game and the control panel.

What resolution are you running at? With that setup I would expect way over 60FPS at 1080p even at Ultra.

Tried a few different versions of graphics drivers, including the latest?

 

[TorTorden_VR]

The spinning ship is a loading screen.
It will always have the occasional skip as fps drops to 0 while certain items are loaded.

System jumps should be smooth but can be sensitive to network throttling, could try in solo since network demands there are limited. But you still need to load BGS and system data when jumping.

Also ED has in personal experience tended to corrupt itself while patching introducing stutter, especially for VR.
Only fix is to delete all game files and download the game again.

G-sync should supersede vsync but I believe those prefer just using the fps limiter. Also make sure you play in full screen not borderless.

 

[TorTorden_VR]

Take a gander at your CPU levels as well as you usage next time you play.
Not saying that's your problem but keeping high fps takes a lot out of a CPU.

My i5 4690k couldn't even keep my 980ti fed and throttle my CV1 to 45fps a lot regardless of graphics settings and with my 1080ti same with a i7 4770k.

Didn't really get all I could out of my gpu until I switched completely to an i7 8700k and ddr4.
Elite and most newer games these are happily capable of fully use all available threads.

G-sync should work in windowed/borderless but for testing I would set the game full screen, bypassing the windows compositor, and then fiddle with the fps limiter rather than g-sync.

 

[d8veh]

What cable are you using? I think you need a display port connector for G-sync to work.

 

[disorganise]

I checked CPU.... Usually it's below 80%. There are occasions when it spikes to 100% but that's generally loading market data or something for a few secs.... I can accept a few stutters then obviously. I should probably try without the tools and see if I get some CPU back

Didn't realise the spinny ship isn't a good guide though.

When I enable the fps in the corner, I see 119/120 most of the time. Gal map has it down in the 40's though, and docking usually causes a drop and and stutter.

Tried full screen but didn't see any difference (and obviously 3rd party tool won't work).

The pendulum test didn't give me much. Trying to get it to have noticeable stutter was pretty much impossible. Arguably, gsync just makes the edges more furry :/

Is there any tool that can read what gsync is outputting? Like if game is saying 85 fps and gsync says 90 (or still says 120) then there's obviously something not right. If they match then I need more money to buy some more upgrades.

Edit: added % symbol to clarify CPU load rather than temp

 

[Morbad]

Synchronization (whether plain vsync, Adaptive Sync/FreeSync, G-Sync, or other) features are for removing tearing, not stutter. Tearing and stutter are not the same thing. You can have regularly spaced frames and very smooth motion and still have horrible tearing if those frames are not synchronized to the display's refresh rate. Likewise, you can have a tear free, perfectly synchronized frame interval, but still have horrible stuttering if the image on those frames wasn't originally rendered at the same intervals.

Variable refresh rate setups allow for reduction of tearing without introducing as much latency or capping frame rates to very specific intervals like synchronization with a fixed refresh rate, but they are not remotely a guarantee of smooth animation. If the game stutters, all G-SYNC will do is wait longer to render the next frame (for mild cases) or temporarily suspend synchronization entirely (if frame rate falls below the minimum).

Some more detail on how G-SYNC works with various combinations: https://www.blurbusters.com/gsync/gsync101-input-lag-tests-and-settings/2/

The spinning ship is a good tearing test, but it's a loading screen and will frequently stutter, especially if you haven't just seen it.

 

[CMDR MAIN SEQUENCE]

The pendulum test didn't give me much. Trying to get it to have noticeable stutter was pretty much impossible.

Which means gsync is not the issue and you need to turn your focus elsewhere (which is essentially what Morbad is saying).

Is there any tool that can read what gsync is outputting? Like if game is saying 85 fps and gsync says 90 (or still says 120) then there's obviously something not right.

See above, but to answer your question - no off-the-shelf tools that I am aware of, but my monitor can show the frame rate on the OSD so check if yours has that feature.

You say you have stutter upon entering systems, you mean when the star zooms in? That was introduced a few releases ago. For me, it's not too bad now but it still freezes once in a while. I have a fairly decent system so it may appear worse on less powerful systems. Not sure if there is a bug report.

You didn't answer my questions:
What resolution are you running at? With that setup I would expect way over 60FPS at 1080p even at Ultra.

Tried a few different versions of graphics drivers, including the latest?

I have experienced stutter at various times in the life of ED, some things to try off the top of my head:
- uninstall GEForce Experience
- check for background processes running
- disable any 3rd-party utilities i.e. hardware monitoring tools such as Afterburner etc. etc.
- add ED folder to anti-virus exception list
- check Windows power settings (i.e. put CPU power to 100% min 100% max)
- underclock the GPU (say by 50Mhz or so)
- ensure BIOS is latest for your motherboard
- use DDU to clean install graphics drivers (shouldn't be necessary but when times are desperate...)
- reinstall Windows (yes, I went there)

 

[disorganise]

Replying via the mobile is tricky - really hard to quote and so on. Appreciate all the help

Synchronization (whether plain vsync, Adaptive Sync/FreeSync, G-Sync, or other) features are for removing tearing, not stutter.

Doh! Guess I duped myself then I thought it was to do with frames not matching refresh, so if say the FPS dropped to 58 on my 60Hz screen, it would have to wait till next refresh which sort of made the effective FPS 30 or something (on normal screen). So GSync would allow the screen to drop to 58 to match and therefore be smooth (as well as actually allowing the screen to go higher than 60 in the first place).

Some more detail on how G-SYNC works with various combinations: https://www.blurbusters.com/gsync/gs...nd-settings/2/

Great - lot of reading there, Hopefully I'll better understand it and either adjust my expectations accordingly or have an 'a ha!' moment

See above, but to answer your question - no off-the-shelf tools that I am aware of, but my monitor can show the frame rate on the OSD so check if yours has that feature.

I have an Asus ROG PG279. Turns out that yes, there's a counter - didn't know it had one so thanks for the tip. It only stays there a few seconds though

You say you have stutter upon entering systems, you mean when the star zooms in? That was introduced a few releases ago. For me, it's not too bad now but it still freezes once in a while. I have a fairly decent system so it may appear worse on less powerful systems. Not sure if there is a bug report.

Yes, that's the one.

What resolution are you running at? With that setup I would expect way over 60FPS at 1080p even at Ultra.

2560*1440 @120Hz

Tried a few different versions of graphics drivers, including the latest?

Yes - on latest now I think (398.11). Have updated 3 times I think since getting the screen.....and many times before that trying to get the thing to stay above 60fps at all times.

I have experienced stutter at various times in the life of ED, some things to try off the top of my head:

- uninstall GEForce Experience - Not tried that yet
- check for background processes running - Can't say there aren't any. I did try msconfig to strip it down some time back...that was before Gsync though to be fair, so might be worth trying again
- disable any 3rd-party utilities i.e. hardware monitoring tools such as Afterburner etc. etc. Not running that usually
- add ED folder to anti-virus exception list Hadn't done that. Added now
- check Windows power settings (i.e. put CPU power to 100% min 100% max) Always
- underclock the GPU (say by 50Mhz or so) you thinking throttling? It's the sea hawk so watercooled - don't think I've ever seen it reach 50 celsius, unlike the old 290x which would run mid 80's Willing to try though
- ensure BIOS is latest for your motherboard hmmm. probably has been a while since I checked....will have a look.
- use DDU to clean install graphics drivers (shouldn't be necessary but when times are desperate...) did that when I swapped from AMD to Nvidia. But sure, can go there.
- reinstall Windows (yes, I went there) I did a reset windows 10 a year or so ago because it was being dumb - it's like a soft reinstall. kinda cool actually. I was impresssed. If (when) I buy another SSD I'll probably go a fresh install.

 

[disorganise]

What cable are you using? I think you need a display port connector for G-sync to work.

yes, it's display port (and yes it's needed for gsync. I know because when I first got the screen I could only get it to work with HDMI, which doesn't give Gsync options. Took screen back to store - worked fine for them. Got it home....worked fine for me too. No idea - guess it wanted a ride in the car )

 

[Morbad]

Doh! Guess I duped myself then I thought it was to do with frames not matching refresh, so if say the FPS dropped to 58 on my 60Hz screen, it would have to wait till next refresh which sort of made the effective FPS 30 or something (on normal screen). So GSync would allow the screen to drop to 58 to match and therefore be smooth (as well as actually allowing the screen to go higher than 60 in the first place)

You're not wrong, that is one of the advantages of variable refresh rate, but your understanding is incomplete. No type of syncing can eliminate stutter if there simply isn't a new frame to display...performance or frame pacing issues remain issues even if the display holds the refresh to wait for them. If the game hits a major slow down or loading pause, you will see it, G-Sync or not.

Once you verify that G-Sync is working by watching for tearing and ensuring that the refresh rate in software closely matches what your monitor's OSD tells you, the next step is to tune your system and game to minimize performance issues where you can.

Fortunately there are a lot of options to play with and I'd be happy to walk your through a few things once you have the basics MAIN SEQUENCE has mentioned out of the way.

 

[CMDR MAIN SEQUENCE]

- underclock the GPU (say by 50Mhz or so) you thinking throttling?

No, previously ED appeared to have an issue with overclocked cards, which seems to have been resolved, so it's probably not that, just one of those things that is worth a try.

EDIT: one more thing to try: make sure Windows Game DVR is turned off as this has been known to cause stuttering.

EDIT of the EDIT : tried setting Nvidia control panel settings to default in case you have accidentally set one to something nasty?

 

[Caramel Clown]

80C to 100C on a CPU? Did I read that right? That can't be healthy. It must be thermal throttling. 60 is a good operating temperature for CPU, maybe 70. Anything over can be considered a case of inadequate cooling IMO.

 

[Pville_Piper]

With G-Sync on I notice less stuttering, it does help smooth things out and reduce dropped frames, which can cause micro stuttering. I run G-Sync all the time and it will help smooth out the gameplay over just running 144hz. That being said, it can't fix issues like a massive frame drops, the only thing that will help that is to lower your graphics settings. If your GPU isn't fully loaded but your CPU is, you will get stuttering. When Battlefield 1 came out my GPU was running about 40% utilized and all four cores of my I5 3570k were fully loaded. The game stuttered and ran like crap, I could barely run 80fps with massive drops into the upper 20's and this was with the graphics set to low. Overclocking helped but in the end, an I7 6700k solved the issues.

 

[Morbad]

80C to 100C on a CPU? Did I read that right? That can't be healthy. It must be thermal throttling. 60 is a good operating temperature for CPU, maybe 70. Anything over can be considered a case of inadequate cooling IMO.

Yours is the the first reference to CPU temperature. CPU load was being talked about above.

That said, most CPUs have rated junction temperature limits of 85-105C before thermal throttling occurs and many laptops won't even engage the fan until the CPU is well past 80C. I would certainly consider a desktop CPU that was only running a game reaching 80-100C to be a case of inadequate cooling, but that's not what's going on here.

 

[disorganise]

After reading that blurbusterguide, I set vsync back ON in the nvidia panel. I then turned it OFF in ED,a nd set the rate limit to 120 (can't do 117 like the guide suggests).
No difference. (BTW, the OSD Frame counter is up there permanently now - the only difference being my PC rebooted...)

Went full screen and voilla - the OSD is now matching the FPS the game says.

Landed and messed about in SRV - pretty much FPS is 110 and all looks good. GPU is running 99% and temps went up to 63 celsius, CPU hit 61 celsius.
Going back to Windowed or borderless, the OSD is showing a constant 120, so it looks like Gsync is only working fullscreen despite being set to full screen and window.....at least now I know I'm not totally mad....and actuall fullscreen did seem smooth - whether that's placebo I don't know. No time now, have to get to work.

So the vsync in game needing to be OFF is a key part of the puzzle I think


I also tried re-entering the game (spinny SRV ) - it did stutter (even pause) when it dropped briefly to sub 30 fps, otherwise was smooth. Usually there are numerous stutters.

 

[MickyG1982]

80C to 100C on a CPU? Did I read that right? That can't be healthy. It must be thermal throttling. 60 is a good operating temperature for CPU, maybe 70. Anything over can be considered a case of inadequate cooling IMO.

At stock on stock cooling that CPU doesn't get above 75C under test conditions at full load. Real World gaming isn't going to be pushing it more than that. 80-100C is almost certainly thermal throttling the CPU and definitely points to inadequate cooling and/or a severe overclock. His system isn't even running at full load to produce those temps...

 

[disorganise]

80C to 100C on a CPU? Did I read that right? That can't be healthy. It must be thermal throttling. 60 is a good operating temperature for CPU, maybe 70. Anything over can be considered a case of inadequate cooling IMO.

Nah. Mid 80s even low 90s, I've seen on my old GPU the AMD 290x even after underclocking.
CPU used to get to low 70s but I swapped out to a water cooler a few months back and only see low 60s high 50s now.

 

[disorganise]

With G-Sync on I notice less stuttering, it does help smooth things out and reduce dropped frames, which can cause micro stuttering. I run G-Sync all the time and it will help smooth out the gameplay over just running 144hz. That being said, it can't fix issues like a massive frame drops, the only thing that will help that is to lower your graphics settings. If your GPU isn't fully loaded but your CPU is, you will get stuttering. When Battlefield 1 came out my GPU was running about 40% utilized and all four cores of my I5 3570k were fully loaded. The game stuttered and ran like crap, I could barely run 80fps with massive drops into the upper 20's and this was with the graphics set to low. Overclocking helped but in the end, an I7 6700k solved the issues.

Hoping I can get away without a CPU update.....that would mean a mobo and ram so it gets expensive real quick. And I hadn't noticed it being CPU bound while playing.
I think I already enabled overclocking cos windows reports 4.3 Ghz and I think stock it was meant to be 3.9. I hadn't played around since adding the water cooler though (AIO not custom)

 

[Necronaught]

Went full screen and voilla - the OSD is now matching the FPS the game says.
So the vsync in game needing to be OFF is a key part of the puzzle I think

I have FREE-SYNC screen and it has to be full screen and v-sync off for it to work correctly. Also my monitor came with a 2 meter display port cable, which worked at 144Hz straight away. I found this a little short so I bought a 5 meter DP cable which will only display at 60Hz and no Free-Sync. Perhaps it was too cheap to work.