Newcomer / Intro I get exploration data whether I honk or not... confused

Have googled the heck out of this, but it's all sooooo darn confusing, what with the game having changed so much and many of those changes being quite recent.

So maybe you guys can put me out of my misery:

When I visit a system for the first time, my finger is often only just making it to the honk trigger when I start getting told that I've discovered this and that body. When I forget to scan at all, I still get (at least some) exploration data and am now wondering what the point of honking is...

I have seen a great deal of chatter about how FSS and the discovery scanner have been changed around a lot in the recent patches, so here's a simple and hopefully well-posed question: if you don't use the FSS (I will learn some day!), and are simply leaping from star to star with a few seconds of scooping and optional honking, does the honk actually make any difference to the data you get? If so, what is that difference?

Thanks! :)
 
As I understand it, when a ship passes within a certain range of an object, exploration data is collected however, HONKing a system collects data for all objects in a system (except USS, apparently), regardless of range.
 
Yes, the discovery scanner has a passive range of 500ls. Everything within that distance is auto-resolved (it's usually the star, one or two planets and some asteroid belts) for the rest you have to honk.
 
OK, thanks guys. My confusion is not wholly sorted out though, because I notice that when I honk and sell data, it often only has a few objects (not the 23 or so it may have told me about after the honk). Maybe this is to do with another range limit (I seem to remember reading a 1000 ls limit for something or other)?

Changing topic slightly: a previous question (on this forum I think) was "how can I tell how much my exploration data is worth?" to which the reply was "it's in the codex". Did this get removed? I can't find it in my Codex no matter how hard I look...
 
I don't think it's in the codex. The only thing in the codex is how much you've earned by exploration (I may be wrong, though, I haven't really paid THAT much attention to codex if I'm honest), not the data you haven't sold yet.
So if your question means "Can I find out how much exploration data I have gathered without going back to a station and looking into Universal Cartographics" the answer is no, unfortunately.
 
OK, thanks guys. My confusion is not wholly sorted out though, because I notice that when I honk and sell data, it often only has a few objects (not the 23 or so it may have told me about after the honk). Maybe this is to do with another range limit (I seem to remember reading a 1000 ls limit for something or other)?

Changing topic slightly: a previous question (on this forum I think) was "how can I tell how much my exploration data is worth?" to which the reply was "it's in the codex". Did this get removed? I can't find it in my Codex no matter how hard I look...

I'm a newbie myself, but did a lot of exploration the last days. Here is what I think:
  • Arriving in a system you have no data - you discover the stars immediately.
  • Honking - you find the rest of celestial bodies in the system - all of them. Your system map works now, but planets are 'unexplored'.
  • Using FSS - you find all the planets and data on them, you find out the type (Icy Body, Metal Rich Planet, and so on).
  • Flying to the planets and doing a surface scan (DSS. you need to buy and mount the surface scanner, FSS and Discovery Scanner are in every ship) - this shows you points of interest (geographical sites, and so on) and brings more money if you sell the data. If you DSS 'efficiently', that is you use not more probes as it says, you receive an 'Efficiency Bonus'. Less probes than estimated bring not more bonus.
What happens in 'civilized' systems? You can honk there, and use FSS. You can also use DSS. But you will not be able to sell the data, because such system have a Nav Beacon, and you can get all the data scanning it. Sometimes - in systems with a Nav Beacon - the entire result of the FSS scan pops up, this seems to happen, when you are near the Nav Beacon, so you do not need to drop out of SC and scan it. You need to scan it anyway for missions, even if you know the system already.

Your Codex contains your findings - not the monetary value. You can find out, what it is worth buy opening the Cartographer at a station. If you sell it or not is your decision. There are estimates, for example metal rich planets are worth a lot, but it changes with the size of the planet, so there is no fixed formula we know. You can expect a lot more if you DSS the planet.
Just for example: I had bigger systems (2 stars, 8 metal rich planets, one ammonia world) which were worth around 2 millions (including surface scans from the valuable planets).
I recommend to sell your data ASAP, since they are lost with your ship, if you have an accident...
 
OK, thanks guys. My confusion is not wholly sorted out though, because I notice that when I honk and sell data, it often only has a few objects (not the 23 or so it may have told me about after the honk). Maybe this is to do with another range limit (I seem to remember reading a 1000 ls limit for something or other)?
...........

Your "honk" tells you how many bodies there are but you only passively get the info for stars and things within the passive range of the scanner. To get the information on the rest of the bodies you have to go into the FSS screen and tune the signals along the FSA graph, locate the source of that signal (or vice-versa) and then zoom in to that body.

This process is called "exploration" and it has upset a lot of the previous "jump and honk" types who don't like having to actually find things.



1) Arriving in a system you have no data - you discover the stars immediately.
2) Honking - you find the rest of celestial bodies in the system - all of them. Your system map works now, but planets are 'unexplored'.
3) Using FSS - you find all the planets and data on them, you find out the type (Icy Body, Metal Rich Planet, and so on).
4) Flying to the planets and doing a surface scan (DSS. you need to buy and mount the surface scanner, FSS and Discovery Scanner are in every ship) - this shows you points of interest (geographical sites, and so on) and brings more money if you sell the data. If you DSS 'efficiently', that is you use not more probes as it says, you receive an 'Efficiency Bonus'. Less probes than estimated bring not more bonus.
.......

1 - Only the closer ones and bodies within the passive detection range
2 - Only the rest of the stars and anything that has been discovered (and data sold) by other people
3 - yes
4 - no - zooming in the FSS gets a detailed scan, what you do with the DSS is MAP the body.



In those "Civilised" systems you don't "discover" anything, just arriving reveals everything. I don't know why they decided to make all the previously available systems appear as "unknown" until your first visit - seems daft to me. You can of course use the FSS to resolve all the signal sources in the system.
 
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1 - Only the closer ones and bodies within the passive detection range
2 - Only the rest of the stars and anything that has been discovered (and data sold) by other people
3 - yes
4 - no - zooming in the FSS gets a detailed scan, what you do with the DSS is MAP the body.

In "Civilised" space you don't "discover" anything, just arriving reveals everything. I don't know why they decided to make all the previously available systems appear as "unknown" until your first visit - seems daft to me. You can of course use the FSS to resolve all the signal sources in the system.

Yes - I meant 'mapping', instead of scanning. Fine points, these :)

Arriving in a system and honking seems to reveal all the bodies, even those which are very far away. After honking you receive a message how many bodies are in the system, and if you start FSS, this exact body count is shown and you have to find them. After finding and zooming in on the last body, FSS says its complete. I had a system where one component (a brown dwarf I think) and its planets where very far out, around 900.000 ls (250 lh). They where found (counted) with honking, and scanned with FSS. Flying out to map them did take a bit. So I think honking at least gives a correct body count always.

I have to admit, that I started with 3.3.02, and soon received 3.3.0.3 - so I have no idea what was changed and how this worked earlier.

The problem with civilized systems I found too. I think - logic be damned - they wanted you to still buy data in advance. If you would know all the systems this would make no sense. On the other hand a new pilot may not have all the data in his computers, because they cost money. So it is not totally wrong, I think...
 
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If you get EDDiscovery, one of its functions is to estimate how much your discoveries are worth. It's especially good if you have a second monitor because then you don't have to tab out.
 
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You can also map the surfaces of the planets with the Discovery Scanner launching probes, you have to be very close to the planet (depends on size) if you scan the surface without using a certain number of probes (depends on the planet size again) you get an efficiency bonus. This increases the value of the data sold. So, for example, for first discovery of an Icy body you got only like 500 crds, if you are the first one to "honk it", FSS find it and DSS mapping it, the price can increase to up 4,500+ (I think there is a formula based on the planet size, minerals within, etc.).

I've found it a fun minigame, but there is still a bug were a body appears like if you had already mapped it but you have not, so you can't see how much you are mapping with each probe exactly. Mapping gas giants can become a nightmare.
 
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Arriving in a system and honking seems to reveal all the bodies, even those which are very far away. .. ...........

^^^^^^^^ THAT IS WRONG ^^^^^^^^^^

I am sure know you have been corrected on this before (maybe even by me).

You only see what has been already discovered and tagged by someone (i.e. sold the data) - those are what you see in the system map as unknown.

In a "virgin" system - you do not have the bodies revealed on the system map - you have to use the FSS to locate and zoom-in on them for those to appear on the system map and in your nav panel. Only those bodies within the passive scan range are identified - everything else has to be "discovered" by you, using the FSS.

So get out of the bubble, go far enough to get to a system that nobody has been to and you will arrive to see a blank sensor display, shortly followed by "Discovered..." the star (maybe other stars if close enough) and that will show on the sensor screen. You might have planets within the passive range and that will give you a "discovered ..." message and they will appear, similar for asteroid belt clusters (obviously those not on sensor display). In your nav panel you will see the star(s) and any close bodies and that is all that is on a system map if you open it. Now you can HONK - it tells you how many bodies are in the system but if you look in nav panel, sensor display or system map you will see nothing different. You have to use the FSS to discover these bodies.

So - long and short, please stop with the incorrect information, get out of the bubble and test to check what I say.
 
Yes, the discovery scanner has a passive range of 500ls. Everything within that distance is auto-resolved (it's usually the star, one or two planets and some asteroid belts) for the rest you have to honk.

Not quite. The new FSS has a passive range of about ** 30ls ** and everything in that range is automatically scanned after a few seconds. This always includes the main star of course, and frequently includes close-in asteroid clusters. The 500ls and 1000ls thresholds no longer mean anything.

Separate issue - since the FSS "honk" no longer reveals all bodies in the system, Frontier changed how the honk-only payouts work. Before, just honking would give you a small payout per body in the system. Now you get approximately the same amount even if you don't reveal the other bodies, because the scan value of the primary star includes a bonus based on the total value of all the bodies in the system. I believe it works out to around 1/3 the value from doing a full scan, so the star value can be surprisingly high if there are high value bodies (ELWs etc) that you don't reveal.

The full details (to the extent we know them, which is pretty well now that we have a couple months of data with the new system) are worked out in this thread: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/232000-Exploration-value-formulae
 
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Ingenious

Totally rational system

The credits just roll in whether you want them or not

Don't bother trying to understand it

It's like having an Allowance
 
What happens in 'civilized' systems? You can honk there, and use FSS. You can also use DSS. But you will not be able to sell the data, because such system have a Nav Beacon, and you can get all the data scanning it. Sometimes - in systems with a Nav Beacon - the entire result of the FSS scan pops up, this seems to happen, when you are near the Nav Beacon, so you do not need to drop out of SC and scan it. You need to scan it anyway for missions, even if you know the system already.

There are two different kinds of "civilized" or "inhabited" systems. You used to be able to easily tell them apart on the galaxy map, but you can't any more.

Systems with over 1 million population (as a general rule) are "pre-Explored". When you arrive in the system for the first time, you get all the data for all the planets instantly available to you on the radar and system map. Honking or using the FSS does nothing in such systems except discover the ephemeral POIs (all the planets will be pre-scanned for you). Since there is no FSS or honk data, you cannot sell such data from systems like these. You can, however, still map them, and if you're lucky enough to find planets that no-one else has Mapped yet (there are still a few about the place) you can claim the "First Mapped By" Tags. Note that the three Superpower capital systems (Sol, Achenar, Alioth) are considered "pre-Mapped"; you cannot map these worlds or claim credits for probing them.

Systems with less than 1 million population, including uninhabited systems, are almost always considered "Unexplored". When you arrive in such a system for the first time, you get the passive scan of the primary star and anything else within passive scan range (about 30 Ls), which will often include asteroid clusters and any Metal-rich planets in close orbit around the star. When you honk, you get all the data on any other stars in the system. You then need to use the FSS to find all the moons and planets in the system, as well as any more remote asteroid clusters. You can sell this passive scan data, honk data, and the FSS data, you obtain for any planets you scan. You can also probe and map the planets to get mapping credit (and First Mapped tags, if no-one else has ever done so), just like in a pre-Explored system.

There are essentially three different sub-varieties of "Unexplored" systems:

1. Systems which other CMDRs have fully explored before you (using either the FSS or the old pre-3.3 fly-up-and-wait surface scanning method). When you Honk in such systems, you get all the planets revealed to you on the radar and system map, though they are labelled as "Unexplored" on the system map until you run the FSS (or fly into passive scan range). Pretty much every Unexplored system within 500 LYs of Sol, and many of the systems along the popular tourist routes, are going to be this type.

2. Systems which other CMDRs have only partially explored. With the FSS, a "partially explored" system is less likely to occur, since exploring an entire system is relatively quick and effortless compared to the old pre-3.3 method, but you will still find plenty of "legacy" systems where pre-3.3 players have only partially scanned a system. When you Honk in such systems, you only get the planets revealed to you that have been previously scanned and Tagged by others; Untagged planets will be invisible to you, both on the radar and on the System map (though you can infer their existence if there are "strange gaps" in the system map, like a Planet 3 and Planet 5 visible, but Planet 4 is missing). Once you get out around 1000-2000 LYs , this kind of system becomes commonplace.

3. Systems which no other CMDR has ever visited, or at least has never sold the data for. When you Honk in such systems, all you see on the radar and system map are the stars (and any planets within passive scan range) - you will have to use the FSS to find every other planet and asteroid belt. You've got to get out beyond about 2000 LYs or so before you start to see these.
 
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Thank you all for the explanations. I knew most of it, but not what happens in a system where no one has been before. I already have two 'First Mapped' tags, but no first discovered yet. My maximum distance from Sol (or the starting system) was around 450 ly. So I did not expect to really find a completely new system.

So in most systems (Anarchy, zero population) I see all the planets after honking, but on the Starmap they are labeled 'Unexplored', until using FSS. The video above shows clearly what happens in a completely new system, and your response, Sapyx makes clear what happens in populated systems.

Thank you.
 
Many thanks all!
I will digest these replies and do some more exploration. I did some last night and like Moonracer I got a couple of "first mapped" tags, yay! :)
I didn't manage to find any undiscovered systems yet so I obviously didn't venture far enough.

If nothing else, I'm also a little reassured that I'm not the only one who is confused about how the exploration & scanning stuff works :D
 
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