Exactly my thoughts. I'm hoping the next patch "powerplay" will go along these lines.....
I have a bad feeling about Elite : Dangerous.
- Thread starter Dominico
- Start date
Exactly my thoughts. I'm hoping the next patch "powerplay" will go along these lines.....
So...let me see if I've got this right.
1. Fear + Cost + Griefing + Boredom is better than Griefing + Boredom alone.
2. Saving up for those big ships should be an exercise in diminishing returns because mind games is better than slugfesting.
3. People complain because they have too much time on their hands. Also they're crazy.
...I don't follow >.> I thought people were complaining because:-
1. Fear + Cost + Griefing + Boredom, three out of four are game killers.
2. Consigning ships to the status of hangar queens because loss (through griefing?) means those ships become dead weight rather than awesome goals.
3. The pricing before required you to have too much time on your hands, and also go crazy with boredom if you weren't lucky enough to enjoy trading.
Luckily the devs are aware of this, and are acting on it. If you want a study on how truly hardcore space gaming works itself out, check out how EVE Online operates - and even there, ships are a hell of a lot easier to earn and replace than they are in Elite atm. Beyond that point, ask yourself...is what you are experiencing actually "fun" at all?
Also check out Carmaki's post above. He sums things up very well
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The fundamental problem at the moment is that the only way to play if you want better ships/credits is to trade. All other methods are much slower. This means that trade is an obligatory profession rather than an option. My personal opinion is that trade needs to be much less profitable. Rares should be a product of mining and not easily available. Reducing the combat ship prices is another way of doing it because it encourages players to do the other careers.
In the original the emphasis was on combat - Elite ranking was purely combat kills and you traded in order to have the funds for combat, but you had to get good at combat. ED currently is a trading game with the option of combat if you really want it.
Players need to feel they can progress in whatever skill/credit/ship tree exists otherwise they switch off.
In the original the emphasis was on combat - Elite ranking was purely combat kills and you traded in order to have the funds for combat, but you had to get good at combat. ED currently is a trading game with the option of combat if you really want it.
Players need to feel they can progress in whatever skill/credit/ship tree exists otherwise they switch off.
I dont know where to start but im worried about "my" game. First off i understand by the nature of it its a game i share with thousands, but it seems to me to be heading the wrong way for me.
The thing i LOVE about this game is the difficulty. If you dont cheese the game with rares etc it is hard to earn money in vast amounts. Not a grind for me, a challenge. I say a grind is boring. So if i was boring enough to trqde the same route or sit in one point shooting enemies, it would be a grind but i dont. My game varies n is exciting. Damage has repercussions, ship loss too! One of my best ingame moments i lost a fight and lost money!!! Fancy that.
I loved the fact that damage meant something, that death is a big dent but these things are manageable.
You fear losing your battleship, take a smaller ship to war. The guy with the balls who turns up with their bship has an advantage.
Fear damage you can run leaving your buddies in the lurch.
Fear losing all that gold carry cheaper stuff to have a lower loss (with of course lower profit.) Or add bigger shields and shield boosters.
Instead of this attitude people have the, why cant i do it all why is fuel expensive why is repairing expensive. Even recently i have seen "battleships are too expensive for me to get in x hours. Make them a lot cheaper."
You will get these whines but imo they have to be ignored.
Ultimately the game lives or dies on its value of ships. The currency the players build. You devalue ships you devalue the game. Remove money sinks you create boredom (how many threads have you seen "i have the uber ship. I finished the game. Im bored") we need more sinks more expenses and options. Not watering down of the existing ones. Maybe im a unique creature... i love the fines, im upset when police stop me and forget to scan, or when i realise chaff stops scans so now station running is simple, or when you attacked a group of 3 enemies and 2 ignored you (fixed now i hear) i love the early game and looking at that battleship n thinking wow that will take me a while to get!! I dont think waaaah i wskt it NOW i think. I can get it this way or that in months. (You want the game over in days?)
Im kind of lost in my ramble now n i dont know how to succinctly sum up what im trying to say. Cept be careful what you wish for in havjng everything. As a nerd i remember d & d **spoiler if you play it** the dm is meant to keep players poor and desiring things. This in turn keeps them exploring adventuring. If the DM gives then the ubersword of +10 whacking. Suddenly dragons are not so tough. Suddenly the worls loses its magic. Suddenly they dont have a reason to go out anymore.
Id be interested in peoples thoughts. As ultimately though i said it was my game its not at all in reality, its yours and fds. N if the majority want arcade mode throw away battleships they will get it. Ill slink off into the abyss and wait for a hardcore space game, or just go back to playing fallout dead is dead.
Please tell me im not alone and some of you get it?
I pretty much feel the same way. Games seem to be getting easier. Without challenge I loose interest. All that said, the game is obviously work in progress and I am sure a happy medium can be found. I expect there will be lots of tweaking to things like ship prices.
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That may be the problem. The core game of Elite dangerous is fun, but it lacks content. Beside pretending to be part of a story, picturing personal goals in your head and making stuff up in your mind (which really doesn't have anything to do with the game itself, as it would work even if you were staring at a white screen), there is not much to it. It still needs more content.
A cracking good idea! +1 that
Also, it occurs to me, that this game is +30 years old, with not much change. It has stood the test of time. Bravo Mr Braben and Bell.
The prices of the new ships was a bit of a shock to people who don't feel they should have to trade. So there was a backlash. But most combat pilots were actually saying that would be fine if combat rewards scaled somehow.
Apparently there's big changes coming in the next update. This will require more re balancing anyway (assuming it is significant). So announcing a price reduction is just a quick fix to let people know they are considering non trade roles. IMO they could have simply reassured everyone without changing anything.
What I'm interested in is whether the next couple of updates will give me more to play for than credits and equipment? We'll see.
Apparently there's big changes coming in the next update. This will require more re balancing anyway (assuming it is significant). So announcing a price reduction is just a quick fix to let people know they are considering non trade roles. IMO they could have simply reassured everyone without changing anything.
What I'm interested in is whether the next couple of updates will give me more to play for than credits and equipment? We'll see.
I dont know where to start but im worried about "my" game. First off i understand by the nature of it its a game i share with thousands, but it seems to me to be heading the wrong way for me.
The thing i LOVE about this game is the difficulty. If you dont cheese the game with rares etc it is hard to earn money in vast amounts. Not a grind for me, a challenge. I say a grind is boring. So if i was boring enough to trqde the same route or sit in one point shooting enemies, it would be a grind but i dont. My game varies n is exciting. Damage has repercussions, ship loss too! One of my best ingame moments i lost a fight and lost money!!! Fancy that.
I loved the fact that damage meant something, that death is a big dent but these things are manageable.
You fear losing your battleship, take a smaller ship to war. The guy with the balls who turns up with their bship has an advantage.
Fear damage you can run leaving your buddies in the lurch.
Fear losing all that gold carry cheaper stuff to have a lower loss (with of course lower profit.) Or add bigger shields and shield boosters.
Instead of this attitude people have the, why cant i do it all why is fuel expensive why is repairing expensive. Even recently i have seen "battleships are too expensive for me to get in x hours. Make them a lot cheaper."
You will get these whines but imo they have to be ignored.
Ultimately the game lives or dies on its value of ships. The currency the players build. You devalue ships you devalue the game. Remove money sinks you create boredom (how many threads have you seen "i have the uber ship. I finished the game. Im bored") we need more sinks more expenses and options. Not watering down of the existing ones. Maybe im a unique creature... i love the fines, im upset when police stop me and forget to scan, or when i realise chaff stops scans so now station running is simple, or when you attacked a group of 3 enemies and 2 ignored you (fixed now i hear) i love the early game and looking at that battleship n thinking wow that will take me a while to get!! I dont think waaaah i wskt it NOW i think. I can get it this way or that in months. (You want the game over in days?)
Im kind of lost in my ramble now n i dont know how to succinctly sum up what im trying to say. Cept be careful what you wish for in havjng everything. As a nerd i remember d & d **spoiler if you play it** the dm is meant to keep players poor and desiring things. This in turn keeps them exploring adventuring. If the DM gives then the ubersword of +10 whacking. Suddenly dragons are not so tough. Suddenly the worls loses its magic. Suddenly they dont have a reason to go out anymore.
Id be interested in peoples thoughts. As ultimately though i said it was my game its not at all in reality, its yours and fds. N if the majority want arcade mode throw away battleships they will get it. Ill slink off into the abyss and wait for a hardcore space game, or just go back to playing fallout dead is dead.
Please tell me im not alone and some of you get it?
AMEN CMDR !!!
Totaly agree with you OP, +1 rep, FD is actually making this game a Casual Game... We'll see how things will finish, but i don't want a game where any little casual player can earn and access to hight end ships and equipments.
But in fact, i think the actual way is caused by 3th party tool for trader ! Cause, in fact the honest trading isn't boring, it need to think and explore and is really more time consuming as fight ! But with BPC and others softs, trade for 80% of players is effectively a simple grind without any skill needed. All honest traders like me are betrayed now and our work devaluated !
But in fact, i think the actual way is caused by 3th party tool for trader ! Cause, in fact the honest trading isn't boring, it need to think and explore and is really more time consuming as fight ! But with BPC and others softs, trade for 80% of players is effectively a simple grind without any skill needed. All honest traders like me are betrayed now and our work devaluated !
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I have to say I completely agree with your position Carmaki, although I never stuck it out long enough to get an Asp. Like you I was on the verge of bowing out of this game and was also considering writing a letter of complaint about the issue, until I saw the dev post about reducing the combat ship prices and balancing the careers. Now instead of quitting entirely, I'm still actively playing and hoping that they'll get it right. I even bought the new Onionhead skin
. For me the lack of progression for a combat pilot was a definite deal breaker..
It's also worth noting that this disparity between the roles was never intended:
.
From dev diary 3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gMbLjUjs1w&feature=youtu.be&t=2m30s
.
David: "One of the things that we want to do with the alpha and beta test is to ensure that no one roll is a massive generator of cash. What I don’t want in a game like this is being forced to forever astroid mine or whatever it is, if there was one way gaining a lot of money, I meant it’s one of the standard things for games is to essentially encourage the enjoyment. You do that by making sure that no one role stands out. And, to try and balance it that way. Now we absolutely realize that people will get very good at one thing, and thats fine. But, I mean if you get very good at a particular role it shouldn’t be massively better then if you get good at some other role."
Well said there...
TBH bounty hunting was becoming a poor choice of career, i stuck with it despite not seeing the "riches" that traders seems to be enjoying compared to the risk of wasting 100K on insurance.
Thanks to an unfortunate docking encounter, and the bug where you clip someone with a beam(in a combat zone) and all the other human players turn on you, i was down to just over 100K and looking to trade down due to losses. Bounties were scarce, and i'd resorted to humping items about in my cobra, so i docked and left the game until Wings came out.
The update not only brings up the occurrence of bounties, its leveled the playing field for hunters a little. Its hardly going to make me rich, but its made it worth it and perhaps some players are looking over their shoulder a bit more. Which is part of the fun, isn't it?
Thanks to an unfortunate docking encounter, and the bug where you clip someone with a beam(in a combat zone) and all the other human players turn on you, i was down to just over 100K and looking to trade down due to losses. Bounties were scarce, and i'd resorted to humping items about in my cobra, so i docked and left the game until Wings came out.
The update not only brings up the occurrence of bounties, its leveled the playing field for hunters a little. Its hardly going to make me rich, but its made it worth it and perhaps some players are looking over their shoulder a bit more. Which is part of the fun, isn't it?
The other thing to note is that it's important to make running costs for bigger ships sustainable by a number of different career paths. If the only way to afford fuel and repairs and wear and tear in an anaconda is to trade, then only people who don't mind trading are going to fly them in combat.
I don't mind that it will take me a long time to afford a vulture - as long as when I get there I'm not trapped into a grind to keep it. (ok I'll have to fly carefully to not lose the higher insurance costs, but that's much more doable than avoiding all hull damage).
So the recent changes to those are valuable. And I think the steepness of the cost curve is a bit high at the moment - creating a big gap between viper/cobra/t6 and anything else.
I don't mind that it will take me a long time to afford a vulture - as long as when I get there I'm not trapped into a grind to keep it. (ok I'll have to fly carefully to not lose the higher insurance costs, but that's much more doable than avoiding all hull damage).
So the recent changes to those are valuable. And I think the steepness of the cost curve is a bit high at the moment - creating a big gap between viper/cobra/t6 and anything else.
Aigaion
Banned
Lowering the cost of ships is not going to help, it's a stupid decision, just like all game developpers, FDev starts listening QQers, and that's NOT a good sign for the futur of the game. People cry beacous they don't make enough money from bounty hunting, lowering ship costs is not the solution, upping the bounties would be one, but no, let's reduce the cost off all ships so people can just go Humpa-Lumpa with there new Anaconda they just got beacous FDev is willing to casualise the game.
I farmed all my ships, all to get to the Anaconda, this announce is just disgusting me, totally. Getting the best ship in the game is supposed to be a pleasure, I got my Anaconda after weeks of hard farming and playing while alterning between bounties and trade, I was pleased to finally get it, now what ? Let's just reduce prices so each and every in the universe can get one, for the lolz my friends !
I farmed all my ships, all to get to the Anaconda, this announce is just disgusting me, totally. Getting the best ship in the game is supposed to be a pleasure, I got my Anaconda after weeks of hard farming and playing while alterning between bounties and trade, I was pleased to finally get it, now what ? Let's just reduce prices so each and every in the universe can get one, for the lolz my friends !
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