I hope Frontier is not listening to my praise

[Quantis Trap]

What I am trying to say by the title of this thread, is that the game may actually be harmed in the long run by the fact that I and many other Elite Dangerous addicts love what Frontier does. We love the attention to detail and artistry that Frontier applies to the game. I hope that I and others have not become enablers of the games eventual slow demise.

You might be thinking that's silly, this guys is too self important and deluded, but let me say that I don't really believe what I just said is reality. At least not now.

I think, and hope, that Frontier is being crazy like a fox AGAIN by making us think that they are doing boring things like endlessly tweaking the background simulator to perfect player controlled factions and thus reaching new unparalleled heights of GrindCraft. MEANWHILE, behind the scenes, they're developing new exciting ways to produce a shorter term sense of accomplishment when playing the game ... and the Thargoid apocalypse. I HOPE

Yes I'm an addict and, therefore, I'll be very glad for, and am counting the days to, real Class 4 weapons ... but non-addicts don't do that.
Yes I can't wait for even ancient remains of Thargoids let along living ones ... but non-addicts won't be.
Yes, I will surely geek out on Frontier Style awesome atmospheric landings when it arrives ... but others will say been there, done that and won't geek out on the amazing 1 to 1 realism.

I'm definately NOT saying that Frontier shouldn't focus on the things they've done so well which have produced a great game.

I'm saying that there are things that new comers will possibly get enthused about. What those things are is the more engaging, more short term, less grindy game play features. I know that's much more easily said than done. Some might think that this lofty thought sounds a little too mythical given the past carnage in the space game universe. I believe Frontier can do it though or I wouldn't waste the time writing this thread.

PS: Before someone replies that I missed CQC, I didn't. I'm not talking short term in the arcade sense. I really like CQC too, but again my opinion mean nothing.

 

[kofeyh]

Frontier likes grind. They like reasonably forced progression. But this can't be how the game is defined. There needs to be the pull that keeps the filthy casual, and hardcore multi-account tragic equally happy.

Even so, it's already rediculously easy to profit and steam roll into expensive ships in much less time than it used to. So in-as-much as the grind is real, it's already a softer grind in many ways.

I'm intentionally ignoring federal/ imperial rank, here, because this is grinding the likes of which is almost close to original beta, which was awful.

Frontier are walking the line between line term play (grind is a very cheap and often used process to enforce slow progression but it cannot and isn't confused for actual content and varied play) and actual progressive, story telling and immersive brain grabbing mechanics that drag you back into the flight seat, every day.

The latter however is clearly in the sights at present, with bug fixing and stabilising taking a back seat. We are starting to see some of the flourish being incorporated, and not just the bones.

But, to me, I feel people often have unrealistic expectations and time frames. Frontier has a long way to go, but they have achieved remarkable things so far. It's I think rediculously hopeful to expect the game will have a 10+ year run without pretty earth shattering changes down the line (people won't stand for 10 years of endless grind, that attracts hard core punters only) but I can see there is great excitement and (for lack of a genderless term) boyish enthusiasm (child like? is that better? Probably!) in the development team.

So for as long as the fire burns, I believe this game can and will go places. But we have to grasp the time scales needed to do that. And I fear that is indeed the hardest hurdle for the team, and us, the player base to grasp. Rome wasn't built in a day. And it's very much true for Elite. Time will tell.

 

[Cynaqq]

So for as long as the fire burns, I believe this game can and will go places. But we have to grasp the time scales needed to do that. And I fear that is indeed the hardest hurdle for the team, and us, the player base to grasp. Rome wasn't built in a day. And it's very much true for Elite. Time will tell.

It's a hard hurdle to grasp only for the players. The team knows what they are getting into but at the same time, they are getting paid to do so. They are making money doing what they love, that's the reason for the childlike enthusiasm.

Coming to the actual time frames and funds needed to be the game everyone wants it to be...

Very easy approach to the problem: If ED is intended to be a competitor to, say, Star Citizen, it should be expected to be in production for at least as long and cost at least as much. The difference is, FD chose to release the game and build it as they go. CIG opted out and chose to release a more finished product. The difference between the initial funds between the games don't matter. The actual time they spent in production before release don't matter. The only thing that will matter is the total time and funds each game cost at their mature and finished state, which arguably will be similar.

This is a game of numbers, as any production, be it multimedia, software or hardware is. You invest in time and money, you hope to return a profit. FD will do whatever it can to minimize risk, maximize profit and release a product as close to their initial plans as possible. There will be cut corners, there will be decisions not too popular in the short term but in the end, I'm pretty sure they'll get there.

 

[Quantis Trap]

Now I'm sorry I provoked yet another comparison Star Citizen comparison.

I've never viewed SC as competition to ED in the short term or long term. I think other promising games will close the gap between the two however such as https://inovaestudios.com/Battlescape

Even games like No Man's Sky are more apt to compete with ED than SC in my opinion and they appear to be largely different game experiences.

 

[Marc_Hicks]

Frontier likes grind. They like reasonably forced progression. But this can't be how the game is defined. There needs to be the pull that keeps the filthy casual, and hardcore multi-account tragic equally happy.

Even so, it's already rediculously easy to profit and steam roll into expensive ships in much less time than it used to. So in-as-much as the grind is real, it's already a softer grind in many ways.

I'm intentionally ignoring federal/ imperial rank, here, because this is grinding the likes of which is almost close to original beta, which was awful.

Frontier are walking the line between line term play (grind is a very cheap and often used process to enforce slow progression but it cannot and isn't confused for actual content and varied play) and actual progressive, story telling and immersive brain grabbing mechanics that drag you back into the flight seat, every day.

The latter however is clearly in the sights at present, with bug fixing and stabilising taking a back seat. We are starting to see some of the flourish being incorporated, and not just the bones.

But, to me, I feel people often have unrealistic expectations and time frames. Frontier has a long way to go, but they have achieved remarkable things so far. It's I think rediculously hopeful to expect the game will have a 10+ year run without pretty earth shattering changes down the line (people won't stand for 10 years of endless grind, that attracts hard core punters only) but I can see there is great excitement and (for lack of a genderless term) boyish enthusiasm (child like? is that better? Probably!) in the development team.

So for as long as the fire burns, I believe this game can and will go places. But we have to grasp the time scales needed to do that. And I fear that is indeed the hardest hurdle for the team, and us, the player base to grasp. Rome wasn't built in a day. And it's very much true for Elite. Time will tell.

Over one year in, & the closest I have gotten to Grind is in Power Play. Grind only occurs with players who *choose* to grind. I am very well aware of the faults of Elite: Dangerous, but they seem to be faults that the FDev team are themselves well aware of. For everything else, I post suggestions here in hopes they'll see it & make use of my ideas!

 

[Winterwalker]

I think, and hope, that Frontier is being crazy like a fox AGAIN by making us think that they are doing boring things like endlessly tweaking the background simulator to perfect player controlled factions and thus reaching new unparalleled heights of GrindCraft. MEANWHILE, behind the scenes, they're developing new exciting ways to produce a shorter term sense of accomplishment when playing the game ... and the Thargoid apocalypse. I HOPE

To be fair I think FD is not the problem. I think they're professional enough both to know they're building something great and that it will take a while. I'm also sure that when there are specific problems (eg. the BGS) they are as keen as anybody to see the game working properly. Instead I hope "potential new players" is not listening ... to whining. Not enough life in the game yet? PG systems not producing enough variety? Don't understand why powerplay was put in when it was? "Fix the bugs" before adding new? For me this ...

These things get built in layers, without the previous work we wouldn't be able to do what we're doing now.

Michael

... is the most important FDev statement of the last two years (it was made in last week's dev update).