I know big things are apparently coming, but gas giants need some luv...

[rtrski]

Mashup from a NASA shot of Jupiter. Even if you can't handle this level of detail, would love to see just some sort of dynamic cloud swirl (but keep it SLOW - don't make it cartoony fast).

Anyway, hats off to y'all lately with the slow burn FSS improvements targeting scary Stargoid thingies, graffiti in stations, and recent CG story movealongs. Actually looking forward to Update 14 pretty hard.

 

[Cmdr Esteban]

Absolutely agree that gas giants need much more detail and surface feature variation (even if it remains static).

 

[Lobstris]

Completely agree.

Oddly enough the very first gas giants back in the alpha did look more like the above screenshot in terms of turbulence in the textures. Also, there was a video swirling clouds and moving spots on gas giants a few years back too.
The real kicker though was the Kickstarter video showing 3D cloud tech, with David Braben explaining how it would be great to fly through such - and that never made it into the game.

 

[Lobstris]

OK - This is a pretty poor shot of an alpha gas giant. I'll try to see if I've got any better ones kicking around.

 

[Rhaazerus Orzhov]

Absolutely agree.
Even if we don't get any further interaction or get to fly any closer, I would love to see gas giants get further texturing and detail.
They are so flat and immediately unappealing to look at right now in Odyssey.

 

[Fost]

Also ring shadows...

 

[Fizzatron]

Completely agree.

Oddly enough the very first gas giants back in the alpha did look more like the above screenshot in terms of turbulence in the textures. Also, there was a video swirling clouds and moving spots on gas giants a few years back too.
The real kicker though was the Kickstarter video showing 3D cloud tech, with David Braben explaining how it would be great to fly through such - and that never made it into the game.

Hasn't yet made it into the game.. Not saying it's around the corner or offering a guarantee that it will happen and therefore you end up being proved right, but still, Elite is in ongoing development so no-one can say for sure that x feature won't be coming to Elite. So many thought that legs was never going to happen either. Never say never..

 

[Elpapo]

Hasn't yet made it into the game.. Not saying it's around the corner or offering a guarantee that it will happen and therefore you end up being proved right, but still, Elite is in ongoing development so no-one can say for sure that x feature won't be coming to Elite. So many thought that legs was never going to happen either. Never say never..

Even current latest engine of game(oddy), would not really able to handle half of what was promised back then. So yeah, 8 years later, we are not quite there yet, neither its coming anytime soon.


I think its not about "Hasn't yet made it" but more like about quite few so-called "promises" from Mr.B himself, back from kickstarter days, to get much of funds they could get from hype train around "what will be in-game", while a lot of "features", until this day, was not delivered yet, or some even offically scraped and confirmed that it wont be ever to come, once they started focus on thier other games, after initial success of elite. I do feel cheated a bit, cuz some of features that initially driven me to buy pre-order of elite, has never gone past "promise" and I am not alone in this.

Again, if they (FD) would focus all its manpower into elite for all these years (rather than using elite as step stone like they did), game would be a much much more in advanced state than its now, since offical launch back in 2014. One of biggest examples is that console relase also halted a lot of progress as it caused a lot of downgrades at many areas, just to be able run on those consoles. While in end, console version was dumped as well, but since they got thier funds from it so... it did served its "role", while I strongly belive that if that never happen (no console version at all) game would be somewhat in better shape than its now.


All that being said, elite did a lot of progress since 2014 and its very good game overall mainly due of its own unique style, and lot of "elite" moments wich only this game so far can deliver. It could be quite bit better, if it had all the focus it needs, during all these years.

 

[Fizzatron]

Even current latest engine of game(oddy), would not really able to handle half of what was promised back then.

It's difficult to say either way what the actual technical limits of the Cobra engine are vs. performance limits of current gaming PC tech. I'm sure there are ways to mitigate performance hits when it comes to simulating volumetric clouds etc. to make it more manageable. Empyrion does a pretty good job bringing some of the features that were promised to Elite in relation to terrestrial atmospherics etc.. though of course it has its own issues and I daresay that Elite is way more advanced underneath the hood in comparison.

I think people underestimate the technical achievement that Frontier have pulled off with the Cobra engine and Elite Dangerous and also underestimate David Braben, who is an extremely accomplished figure who understands what is necessary on a technical level way beyond that of Chris Roberts or Sean Murphy et al - and I'm not saying that the aforementioned are not smart/genius level figures in any way either.

Also, and more generally, the impact of Unreal 5 and figuring out how to incorporate technology like nanite & lumen etc. into Cobra should be a prime focus for the entire company as it is the engine that is the basis of all of their games so far, and likely not to change in the future. The potential of Unreal 5 is shaping up to be a quantum leap so keeping up is a must for any other engine to remain viable. Though when I saw the procgen Matrix city demo all I could see were this applied to all the habitable planets in Elite unlocking the full potential of having a living and bustling galaxy. I can't say for sure, but one thing I'm hoping is that David Braben will be able have a more direct hand in the game's development now that he has delegated some of the business functions to another colleague.

So yeah, 8 years later, we are not quite there yet, neither its coming anytime soon.


I think its not about "Hasn't yet made it" but more like about quite few so-called "promises" from Mr.B himself, back from kickstarter days, to get much of funds they could get from hype train around "what will be in-game", while a lot of "features", until this day, was not delivered yet, or some even offically scraped and confirmed that it wont be ever to come, once they started focus on thier other games, after initial success of elite. I do feel cheated a bit, cuz some of features that initially driven me to buy pre-order of elite, has never gone past "promise" and I am not alone in this.

Again, if they (FD) would focus all its manpower into elite for all these years (rather than using elite as step stone like they did), game would be a much much more in advanced state than its now, since offical launch back in 2014. One of biggest examples is that console relase also halted a lot of progress as it caused a lot of downgrades at many areas, just to be able run on those consoles. While in end, console version was dumped as well, but since they got thier funds from it so... it did served its "role", while I strongly belive that if that never happen (no console version at all) game would be somewhat in better shape than its now.


All that being said, elite did a lot of progress since 2014 and its very good game overall mainly due of its own unique style, and lot of "elite" moments wich only this game so far can deliver. It could be quite bit better, if it had all the focus it needs, during all these years.

Fair enough. I personally think that Frontier did the right thing by not putting all their eggs in one basket and I have found it interesting to see that Frontier's other games feature mechanics that would fit quite well into Elite when the right time comes. It probably helped weather the storm of Odyssey's initial launch too, though I understand the general point that reinvesting all the initial profit of Elite straight back into Elite may have prevented that from happening, it may have or may have not. But like I said, I think many people doubted that legs would be a thing and yet here we are.

I had no expectations, and still don't, on where Elite should be at any given point, as long as it's continually developed I'm on board. Though I do agree that if anything did directly sidetrack Elite's development it was porting to consoles. I'm not sure if the overall venture worked out or not but whilst still being sympathetic to the console CMDRs, I am actually of the opinion that solely focusing on the PC platform is for the best of the game going forward.

 

[Rhaazerus Orzhov]

Now after mentioning all this, last night I flew past Lagrange here, in Alpha Centauri.
There's these few gems but the whole of the game isn't consistent. Same with Jupiter in Sol system.
It's like certain familiar gas giants at least have these modeled textures, but most procedurally generated gas giants lack the same level of detail.

 

[zimms]

[...]
I think people underestimate the technical achievement that Frontier have pulled off with the Cobra engine [...]

I'm not sure I agree. I think the Stellar Forge does much of the heavy lifting. Yes, the Cobra engine can handle large distances, but most of the time there's not much to render anyway in space.

Looking at JWE or PC my first thought isn't astonishment about the engine.

 

[Fizzatron]

I'm not sure I agree. I think the Stellar Forge does much of the heavy lifting. Yes, the Cobra engine can handle large distances, but most of the time there's not much to render anyway in space.

Looking at JWE or PC my first thought isn't astonishment about the engine.

As far as the galaxy generation goes, yes, but Unreal Engine 5 only allowed game maps to be greater than 22km sq until 5.1 came out - now it's been upgraded to 18,000,000km sq, which, correct me if I'm wrong, would still put it behind Cobra when considering some of the larger planetary bodies, never mind the systems. I do agree that Cobra might have some achille's heels where other engines, such as Unreal, may be more advanced, but Cobra holds its own in many ways I think.

I am also of the mind to believe that some of the negative comments about it's difficulty to use may be more user related, Unreal, Unity & Cry etc.. are end user engines to a degree so they have to put more into ease of use, and while I don't think making things difficult or obtuse for no reason is wise most scenarios, sometimes user friendly features can hinder someone who is very effective and just wants to get on. I guess maybe Linux vs OS X might be a reasonable comparison to make. Some people want the ease of use, others want to be able to delve into the workings, and it's possible that for Frontier, they prefer those who are of the latter mindset when dealing with such a complex piece of software such as Elite: Dangerous. Though of course, that's just all supposition on my part when looking at it, so take it for what that is.

 

[zimms]

Since you mentioned ease of use, there's definitely a lot more guides, tutorials, stackoverflow questions etc out there for engines like Unreal than there is for Cobra, where you probably only have internal company docs.

 

[Lobstris]

Hasn't yet made it into the game.. Not saying it's around the corner or offering a guarantee that it will happen and therefore you end up being proved right, but still, Elite is in ongoing development so no-one can say for sure that x feature won't be coming to Elite. So many thought that legs was never going to happen either. Never say never..

Well, after 8 years, I'm not holding my breath. There certainly haven't been any big announcements of further large DLC, adding features touted back in the Kickstarter, in the past few years have there? We're still on updates to Odyssey and 'narrative content' rolling forward. So... shrug. YMMV.

 

[Andro]

Agreed, and I hope we eventually get to fly into them down to a certain point. I imagine the tech for that would come at or around the same time we get denser atmospheric worlds with clouds and weather. I'd love to see floating outposts in the upper layers.

 

[Fizzatron]

Well, after 8 years, I'm not holding my breath. There certainly haven't been any big announcements of further large DLC, adding features touted back in the Kickstarter, in the past few years have there? We're still on updates to Odyssey and 'narrative content' rolling forward. So... shrug. YMMV.

Odyssey is still pretty new and despite the biased mantra some espouse it has, on the whole, actually moved the game forward quite a bit. I mean, I'd also love to see Odyssey level expansions every year, but I don't think that is realistic given the circumstances, maybe a Microsoft backed company can do something in that order of development pace but as big as Frontier may seem when talking about millions of pounds, it's still a relatively small-med size studio that isn't a one team operation concentrating solely on one game. Also, without overstating it, I think Odyssey may have only started to get into its stride when it comes to what is possible with the new code base, we shall see in a short while.

 

[andrewg_oz]

As far as the galaxy generation goes, yes, but Unreal Engine 5 only allowed game maps to be greater than 22km sq until 5.1 came out - now it's been upgraded to 18,000,000km sq, which, correct me if I'm wrong, would still put it behind Cobra when considering some of the larger planetary bodies, never mind the systems. I do agree that Cobra might have some achille's heels where other engines, such as Unreal, may be more advanced, but Cobra holds its own in many ways I think.

That video just mentions 22km (UE 5.0) vs 88,000,000km (UE 5.1). I'd assume that's actually an area rather than linear distance, but even the latter figure only equates to a more "Elite" number of 293Ls. It's a long way from being able to handle a solar system and I've still seen no evidence that it means spherical planets can be modelled as opposed to flat (albeit very large) play areas.

Frontier's Cobra Engine and Space Engine are still the only things that appear capable of doing full-size solar systems.

 

[Vekt Ey'doom]

Also ring shadows...

Isn't there an engine issue that prevents ring shadows? Oh well, that's not important.

I agree, Gas Giants need some more variety... but there's a problem, Glowing Green Gas Giants, I assume any change to Gas Giant visuals would mess with the generation of these highly coveted exploration finds.