I think I've realised what the problem with ED is.. Braben has lost interest and moved on?

Cosmos · Apr 5, 2018

Hear me out..

If we consider the hype around ED way back during KS and the resulting videos and dev diaries David Braben was all over it. He created a real buzz with his enthusiasm and energy which can really be seen if you watch the dev diaries and so on..

[video=youtube_share;9612CgOr3lE]https://youtu.be/9612CgOr3lE[/video]

Over time his appearances and communications have gotten less and less to the point where he only appears in a yearly Christmas stream..

Whilst I'm sure David has lots of things to do as CEO its worth remembering that he is the 'Game Director' for ED.

He no longer talks about the game, and presumably is no longer involved or interested.. Come to think of it no one really hears from him at all these days. Whilst I really don't like Michael Brookes, he has moved on too, and we hear nothing from him either.

The only real sort of information that comes from FD these days is via Sandro and Ed Lewis.
Whenever we talk about the problems of ED we are told being 'lead designer' doesn't really mean things are his call, there is another designer above him who never appears or talks about the game..

We are also told from time to time that 'there are more people working on ED than ever'. Yet we are never told how many developers are working on the game.

Considering David is meant to be the 'Game Director', how come we never hear from him anymore?

Just wondering whats going on?

GroundxZERO · Apr 5, 2018

He was the weirdest part of the FD event late last year. He seemed really excited and I got the impression he didn’t get to say nearly all that he had to, which is a good thing to me. I could be reading into it too much but I feel like FD still has big things in the works. Probably not space legs big but other things that the game would really benefit from. It’s becoming more and more clear that something happened to stifle development for a good while and it took them time to get on track. I think we’re in early stages still but I am hopeful.

amadeus1171 · Apr 5, 2018

"David Doesn't Care"

[video=youtube;zN6MxLYB8hM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zN6MxLYB8hM[/video]

Lyrics

David!
David wasn't there
David!
David wasn't there,
To take me to the fair,
To cange my underwear,
It seems he doesn't caaaarrrrreeee!!!
David wasn't there
David!
David wasn't there,
To change my underwear,
It seems he doesn't care!
David wasn't there!
(When I was first baptized,
When I was critizised,
When I was ostercised,
When I was jazzercised,
Steak and Kidney Pies,
One hour martinized,
When I was Circumcised!...
David wasn'there)
To take me to the fair,
To change my underwear,
David wasn't there!
...................
...................
...................
If you got a David issue,
Here's a David tissue!
D to the A to the VID!
D to the A to the VID!
They say it's just a fad,
But I got a dead beat Dev!
D to the A to the VID!
D to the A to the VID!
I sit in my room and cry,
And ask my self, the reason why!
D to the A to the VID!
D to the A to the VID!
David!
....
David!
....
David!
....
D A VID!

It's time to sell Elite: Dangerous to someone who can properly develop it.

TiberiusMaximus · Apr 5, 2018

Im not sure that He has lost interest, he’s just not a developer or designer. He’s the CEO of a fairly large software company. I do feel the studios focus has definitely shifted in general, Fdev are really focusing on new IP, licensing and rapid growth. Elite may have suffered because of it, although I’ve always felt they took on too much with Elite, and became overwhelmed long ago. I doubt Elite Dangerous will ever reach it’s true potential. Either way I’ll probably keep playing to some degree, Its just starting to get interesting, after all.

Red River · Apr 5, 2018

whatever that is they really need to step up their game and get some core Elite features like more landable planet types implemented...

Suvi Anwar · Apr 5, 2018

I posted something in another thread a while back, and I believe it is relevant here.

While ED is highly likely to remain an on-going project, there are unmistakable facts about game development and studios.
The following is my perspective after more than 3 decades in this business, and I believe ED has fully found its way here.

The current main project will always have the studios attention, most of the resources (both human and financial), and focus.

This is not Elite Dangerous, and hasn't been for a while.
Content for projects that are on-going but not the studios focus will be slow in development, and have limited QA focus.

Mainly because of limited resources, both in personnel and budget.
Profits from the latest and greatest project never directly benefit older projects.

Older projects usually have minimal personnel assigned to them, the bulk of which often include those that are less pivotal in the studios larger goals, or newer personnel that are less experienced with the engine the studio prefers to use.
No matter how much the project is the "pet" of any studio executives, resources are still an issue.

Unless a studio is in an active growth state, e.g. hiring personnel for simultaneous large scale projects), resources will shift around to where they are needed most. This usually means that the best people on one project get moved to the newest project they expect to keep the studio financially profitable.
Art personnel are usually shared across multiple projects.

Usually, and with a focus on the current main project, with tasks from older projects waiting for gaps.
Older projects are on the bottom of the marketing and community totem poles.

Marketing is very expensive. The average marketing department in a big studio will easily have a budget 2-3 times that of any other department in a studio. Community management personnel are also expensive and is why there's usually minimal focus on older less profitable projects, and the reason why many forums have volunteer moderation staff, it cuts costs tremendously.

This is not an all-inclusive list by any stretch, I could go on for another 4 or 5 hours, but I think the list above cover the main highlights.

Pay particular attention to point 4. This is still Braben's game, it's still his pet, but he does need to make sure the company is making money and keeping the doors open and the paychecks being written. That means his focus is going to be on what is keeping his and his employees paychecks funded, and that, my friends, is not Elite Dangerous.

Stealthie · Apr 5, 2018

I doubt DB has "moved on" from Elite any more than George Lucas can manage to "move on" from Star Wars.

I suspect that, behind the scenes, DB has either come to realise that certain things that he wanted can't actually be done or, alternatively, if he's not happy with the way things are going for ED he's probably being diplomatic about it to give the dev's a chance to get back with the program.

PiLhEaD · Apr 5, 2018

Stealthie said:
I doubt DB has "moved on" from Elite any more than George Lucas can manage to "move on" from Star Wars....

Ditto.

If DBOBE had 'moved on' we would not have Elite Dangerous. It really is as simple as that.

Witcher 7 · Apr 5, 2018

Lol, I agree with OP to some extent. It seems ED is no longer his sole pet project anymore.

m0rl0ck · Apr 5, 2018

I think the problem is that a marketing consultant told FD that the longer they keep players in the game, the more paintjobs will be sold in the store and then sold them the engineers.

What i dont think they realize is that some of us are so sick of playing a shopping simulator, when we wanted to play a space game, that we are deliberately boycotting the store.

I for one will never buy a Frontier game again after being subjected to such an asinine game mechanic.

But in all respect to DB, who is arguably a visionary, i doubt he is in control anymore. Visionaries rarely get control of the purse strings and Boards of Directors dont really trust them. My guess is Braben is now mostly a marginalized figurehead.

Starwolfe · Apr 5, 2018

Stealthie said:
I doubt DB has "moved on" from Elite any more than George Lucas can manage to "move on" from Star Wars.

Poor analogy. Lucas sold the rights and has 0 creative and directional control over that anymore and we got 'gifted' with Episodes 7 & 8 and the 'wonderful' Rogue One and re-imagining of history that will happen in Solo.

If George could move on to such a degree that he's got no influence over it and the intelectual property sways off the path so far, the same can happen here.

Backelaer · Apr 5, 2018

Hooray! Cosmos is back with the usual veiled insults towards Braben/Fdev.
Alas without the usual Steam-stats to prove no one is playing this game anymore.

One could almost be persuaded to believe Cosmos is going by the name 'Ian' in real life..

Anyway, what do you want from us? Would you have us all chant how evil David Braben and his Church of Frontier is?

Alternatively, just lay down what is wrong with the game here in your opinion, and what might be solutions. That would be a way better use of your time. And presumably those reading this.

Witcher 7 · Apr 5, 2018

m0rl0ck said:
I think the problem is that a marketing consultant told FD that the longer they keep players in the game, the more paintjobs will be sold in the store and then sold them the engineers.

What i dont think they realize is that some of us are so sick of playing a shopping simulator, when we wanted to play a space game, that we are deliberately boycotting the store.

I for one will never buy a Frontier game again after being subjected to such an asinine game mechanic.

But in all respect to DB, who is arguably a visionary, i doubt he is in control anymore. Visionaries rarely get control of the purse strings and Boards of Directors dont really trust them. My guess is Braben is now mostly a marginalized figurehead.

One would think FDev doesn't need as much revenue from selling cosmetics since the Chinese bought a significant stake in Frontier last year.

I believe David is no longer as hands on with the development team now he has to run a company with more partners or stakeholders.

Ignition · Apr 5, 2018

Thats the problem of making various games, you end up making mediocre products.

Hes probably seeing what will be the next game to develop.

brazen2 · Apr 5, 2018

So... the man who co-released the original, and then kept that passion alive for... what, thirty years, has in your esteemed opinion just 'given up' on it? That seems rather unlikley.
Yes, I'm sure he's very busy with the studios other projects (which, frankly, I'd be shocked if the Jurassic park engineering doesn't end up powering fauna and flora generation on landable atmospheric planets at some stage), but even a cursory review of his video interviews would show he has a deep passion for the science behind elite. He well may not care about the C&P nuances, but watch him light up when discussing main sequence star generation - that's not some marketing facade, that speaks to the very core of the man himself.

RooksBailey · Apr 5, 2018

There's a problem with ED? Seems to be developing nicely to me.

ED was the precise flagship product Frontier needed to go hand and hand with taking the company public. It was a smart move, all things considered. But now it is three years later, and Frontier needs to keep the profits coming in. Putting all their eggs in a nostalgia project basket is not the way forward. High profile games derived from big IPs (e.g., Jurassic Park) is the way. Does that mean ED is dead in the water? Of course not. It will remain Braben's pet, and it will get updates and new content over the years, as with your typical but aging MMO. As for "space legs" and "earth-like worlds" and all the wild ideas floated out there by the fanbase and even Frontier themselves, well, anyone who has any experience in modern gaming knows those were always Christmas wish list items that would be nice to have but were never arriving in the near future. I remember all the wild ideas CCP floated for the future of Eve Online that never came to be either, and that game is now 12 years old with a very experienced dev team behind it. Was CCP lying? No. Is Eve Online "abandoned"? Nope. They do have a robust vision for the game, but visions don't always mesh with the reality of the moment.

Point is: Frontier is developing at a reasonable pace for a complex niche game.

avow555 · Apr 5, 2018

Brabens abscence has been something that has struck me over last few months.

My feeling is he has little interest in Elite anymore.

Arthur Shappey · Apr 5, 2018

Cosmos said:
...
Considering David is meant to be the 'Game Director', how come we never hear from him anymore?

Just wondering whats going on?

You may be right. But there may be another possible driving force, with two possible outcomes:

Mr Braben, as CEO, may be trying to demonstrate to potential investors that FDev is value because of a wide array of talent - not all about just one figurehead. This is important for valuation - i.e. making more millions - if wishing to (as he has done) sell off more shares in the company to other investors. If projects can only succeed with the CEOs personal involvement: the company is (i) limited in future scale of expansion and (ii) devalued if the CEO leaves

The two outcomes for this would be:

1) David is trying to convince banks and investors to fund many more projects at once (more games, more markets - for the good of FDevs long-term future)
2) David is looking to "get out" and wants to maximise his millions before doing so

Both of the above seem much more likely to me than he is simply bored and disengaged

M00ka · Apr 5, 2018

Could be the OP is right, DB has given up on the game. For all we know, he decided one night to sit down with a scotch and read these forums. All he found was players complaining about the game, calling him and his staff incompetent, telling him how they could do things better. Ranting and raging that his dream, his game, is useless because it doesn't have some feature of another game. On the rare occasions when there is a post saying anything positive, the poor player who posted it is ridiculed and called names. He could have sat there and thought "Wait one, we got the game released. We give them regular updates, new content that is often free. We implemented the Focus Feedback system to find out what they want, we design what they want, then get told they didn't want it. We busted are collective butts to try to fix what didn't work, even devoting an entire release to try to fix things. We told them it will take 10 years to get everything done the way we want it done, yet these impatient, greedy so and so's want everything NOW. Yet the strange thing is these experts who think they know more than we do can't even agree on the most basic requirements in the game.
Well screw them, they can leave, we already have their money and they don't appreciate what we have done, what we have given them."

Witcher 7 · Apr 5, 2018

RooksBailey said:
ED was the precise flagship product Frontier needed to go hand and hand with taking the company public. It was a smart move, all things considered. But now it is three years later, and Frontier needs to keep the profits coming in. Putting all their eggs in a nostalgia project basket is not the way forward. High profile games derived from big IPs (e.g., Jurassic Park) is the way. Does that mean ED is dead in the water? Of course not. It will remain Braben's pet, and it will get updates and new content over the years, as with your typical but aging MMO. As for "space legs" and "earth-like worlds" and all the wild ideas floated out there by the fanbase and even Frontier themselves, well, anyone who has any experience in modern gaming knows those were always Christmas wish list items that would be nice to have but were never arriving in the near future. I remember all the wild ideas CCP floated for the future of Eve Online that never came to be either, and that game is now 12 years old with a very experienced dev team behind it. Was CCP lying? No. Is Eve Online "abandoned"? Nope. They do have a robust vision for the game, but visions don't always mesh with the reality of the moment.

Point is: Frontier is developing at a reasonable pace for a complex niche game.

Yes, ED is more successful than Eve but fact is atmospheric landing remains as a broken promise for many players.

It's like politicians making big promises during an election drive but fail to deliver after being elected - e.g., Trump and his wall, etc.