I think these NPCs are pilot's federation rejects...

Goilveig · Feb 12, 2015

Found the worst AI pilots I've seen yet. Imperial clippers mounting all fixed lasers, versus me in a Viper.

The hard point spacing on the clipper is such that the beams can't converge on my ship, and the NPC, rather than aiming such that one side or the other is hitting me, opts to face me straight on, ensuring that none of his lasers ever hit me - all lasers are just skirting harmlessly to the sides. It's actually rather amusing.

AtheosisX · Feb 12, 2015

This stuff isn't very amusing to me anymore honestly. There's a kind of shoddiness that runs through this game that honestly drives me nuts.

Surly_Badger · Feb 12, 2015

AtheosisX said:
This stuff isn't very amusing to me anymore honestly. There's a kind of shoddiness that runs through this game that honestly drives me nuts.

Congrats. You managed to turn an otherwise interesting thread into wingeing a meta-complaint about the game.

Catoblepas · Feb 12, 2015

Surly_Badger said:
Congrats. You managed to turn an otherwise interesting thread into wingeing a meta-complaint about the game.

He is right though, the AI should at the very least be aware of whether or not they can connect a shot with their ship and loadout. It's another thing that clearly hasn't been tested. The fact the AI isn't adjusting to land a shot just shows that the AI is pretty crap, which I'd be surprised if anyone here was looking to debate that. I've never even see the AI try and get on my tail in a fight personally, they just get a bit of space then flip and charge me.

Vasious · Feb 12, 2015

Catoblepas said:
He is right though, the AI should at the very least be aware of whether or not they can connect a shot with their ship and loadout. It's another thing that clearly hasn't been tested. The fact the AI isn't adjusting to land a shot just shows that the AI is pretty crap, which I'd be surprised if anyone here was looking to debate that. I've never even see the AI try and get on my tail in a fight personally, they just get a bit of space then flip and charge me.

It is one thing to agree on Yes the AI might need work there another when you always have someone take statement X about the game and say "X reminds me about how y/z/everything in this game is shoddy/wrong/broken" and those broad statements that use what ever the topic of the thread is about to make broad statements about everything just gets old.

DaveB · Feb 12, 2015

According to the lore, they ARE pilot's federation rejects. Players are all members, so we get the pilots federation insurance, shiny decals and the like. NPCs are not. That's why there's no "pass the test for your pilots license" stage in the game - the lore is that we're not total n00bnumpty pilots, we're pilots that have already succeeded in gaining an invitation to join the pilots federation, the game starts at that point. It's even reflected in how the manual is written.

Catoblepas · Feb 12, 2015

Vasious said:
It is one thing to agree on Yes the AI might need work there another when you always have someone take statement X about the game and say "X reminds me about how y/z/everything in this game is shoddy/wrong/broken" and those broad statements that use what ever the topic of the thread is about to make broad statements about everything just gets old.

True. I got to admit a lot of my time here at the forums is spent pointing out issues but it doesn't make any sense when it just ties everything into one 'it sucks' statement and not actually try to give a reason or provide some feedback that may be helpful.

Mountain Dewed · Feb 12, 2015

I found one about an hour ago that couldn't miss, well he found me, I just got out of that one alive(trade ship). About a week ago I hot hit 3 times and with those three hits, knocked my shields out and down to 45% hull...

Agony_Aunt · Feb 12, 2015

Catoblepas said:
The fact the AI isn't adjusting to land a shot just shows that the AI is pretty crap, which I'd be surprised if anyone here was looking to debate that.

Well, the main developer in charge of AI, a Miss Avery or something (sorry doll, can't quite remember the name), sometimes posts around here. Why not let her know directly what you think of her coding ability? I'm sure she would love to hear your criticisms of her work.

Lovecraft · Feb 12, 2015

I'm guessing the loadouts might be slightly randomised to create a feeling of NPC diversity, while also making for more variation in the challenge AI pose to us- you get some good pilots and you get some bad pilots kind of thing. I'd hope that only harmless/mostly harmless ships are running such loadouts though, as a reflection of their lack of competence. Anything above should really know how to put weapons on imo (and definitely should be refined again at ship level to account for hard point spacing and location).

Catoblepas · Feb 12, 2015

Loki_666 said:
Well, the main developer in charge of AI, a Miss Avery or something (sorry doll, can't quite remember the name), sometimes posts around here. Why not let her know directly what you think of her coding ability? I'm sure she would love to hear your criticisms of her work.

Well I'm not going out of my way to try and offend her because that would be juvenile. It doesn't however mean that I won't criticize the state of the AI right now. In all seriousness I know how tough development can be since I'm still prototyping a few small ideas I've always wanted to try while learning whatever else I'm going to need to put it into production, mostly the programming side which I'm not as well informed in (only a small single person project though so much simpler of course). The point is I know enough to know she's got a tough job, hell I have old friends from school working at FD, they're only 20 miles from where I live and I even considered applying myself in the past, before ED due to convenience of location. None of this puts it above criticism.

Plus I never directly said her work was crap but the state of the AI right now is crap. I could be wrong and have not been very good at the time but personally I felt the Beta had much more challenging AI at one point and I've seen that stated more than once by other people here at the forums. If that is actually the case (can't roll back and test now) then that alone says she can do great AI but simplified it. But even if not I never said her work was crap, just the current state of the AI is.

Perhaps I see criticism different to some but I'm a harsh critic, most particularly to myself. When I look at my own work if it's incomplete to me it looks crap purely because it's incomplete. Perhaps incomplete would have been a better way to give my view of the AI, but regardless I have no real intention of offending her and sure as hell won't be going out of my way to pester her with an offensive private message.

Goilveig · Feb 12, 2015

Catoblepas said:
Well I'm not going out of my way to try and offend her because that would be juvenile. It doesn't however mean that I won't criticize the state of the AI right now. In all seriousness I know how tough development can be since I'm still prototyping a few small ideas I've always wanted to try while learning whatever else I'm going to need to put it into production, mostly the programming side which I'm not as well informed in (only a small single person project though so much simpler of course). The point is I know enough to know she's got a tough job, hell I have old friends from school working at FD, they're only 20 miles from where I live and I even considered applying myself in the past, before ED due to convenience of location. None of this puts it above criticism.

Plus I never directly said her work was crap but the state of the AI right now is crap. I could be wrong and have not been very good at the time but personally I felt the Beta had much more challenging AI at one point and I've seen that stated more than once by other people here at the forums. If that is actually the case (can't roll back and test now) then that alone says she can do great AI but simplified it. But even if not I never said her work was crap, just the current state of the AI is.

Perhaps I see criticism different to some but I'm a harsh critic, most particularly to myself. When I look at my own work if it's incomplete to me it looks crap purely because it's incomplete. Perhaps incomplete would have been a better way to give my view of the AI, but regardless I have no real intention of offending her and sure as hell won't be going out of my way to pester her with an offensive private message.

Well, if the AI was actually really good, they would need to totally rebalance a lot of this game, particularly around financial incentives. If I am a Viper pilot fighting NPC vipers with today's level of risk and reward, I need to win the fights at a 10:1 ratio just to break even, and I need to do better than that to actually earn money.

Catoblepas · Feb 12, 2015

Goilveig said:
Well, if the AI was actually really good, they would need to totally rebalance a lot of this game, particularly around financial incentives. If I am a Viper pilot fighting NPC vipers with today's level of risk and reward, I need to win the fights at a 10:1 ratio just to break even, and I need to do better than that to actually earn money.

I agree, but I see that more as a payout issue personally and would welcome a financial rebalance. That's a lot of work and won't come easy, but I'll be really surprised if we don't get it further down the line in a larger update.

Comrade Napoleon · Feb 12, 2015

If people want difficult targets go PVP. The NPC's should mostly all be manageable for all Cmdr's, else the game would be impossible for new players. All mmo's have different levels of mobs , landscape mobs, red mobs, purple mobs ect, ect.
Elite : D is no different and that is all well, remember we Cmdr's have different skillsets and equipment. I am by no means a good combat pilot, to old and to slow

, so I would find it tiresome if all mobs were Epic battles. I have though found that once in a while, the RNG can come up with some rather nasty NPC's , real nasty and that is good also

But I think if you are looking for the real combat experience, you will have to go open, which you can do as you please.
Have fun.

Cheers Cmdr's

Agony_Aunt · Feb 12, 2015

Catoblepas said:
Well I'm not going out of my way to try and offend her because that would be juvenile. It doesn't however mean that I won't criticize the state of the AI right now. In all seriousness I know how tough development can be since I'm still prototyping a few small ideas I've always wanted to try while learning whatever else I'm going to need to put it into production, mostly the programming side which I'm not as well informed in (only a small single person project though so much simpler of course). The point is I know enough to know she's got a tough job, hell I have old friends from school working at FD, they're only 20 miles from where I live and I even considered applying myself in the past, before ED due to convenience of location. None of this puts it above criticism.

Plus I never directly said her work was crap but the state of the AI right now is crap. I could be wrong and have not been very good at the time but personally I felt the Beta had much more challenging AI at one point and I've seen that stated more than once by other people here at the forums. If that is actually the case (can't roll back and test now) then that alone says she can do great AI but simplified it. But even if not I never said her work was crap, just the current state of the AI is.

Perhaps I see criticism different to some but I'm a harsh critic, most particularly to myself. When I look at my own work if it's incomplete to me it looks crap purely because it's incomplete. Perhaps incomplete would have been a better way to give my view of the AI, but regardless I have no real intention of offending her and sure as hell won't be going out of my way to pester her with an offensive private message.

Fair enough, but then you probably want to check out this thread, and specifically this post: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=113129&page=2&p=1758744&viewfull=1#post1758744