Idea: Colonization

I looked around, but did not find anything on this, so I am going to post my proposal here.

After all combat-oriented players can resort to PvP whereas traders and explorers have no such 'endgame'-activity This proposal seeks to offer such an option for this kind of PvE-focused players.

What I am proposing is the chance of letting players colonize a system they come across. This would happen in several stages and would involve a significant effort in terms of time and resources. But it would allow players to take part in shaping the universe and if their colony is gaining momentum it may serve as stepping stone for other players to create a colony of their own further out in space.
NOTE: To avoid getting the map cluttered with colonies all over the place I would limit this to one colony per player, so choose wisely which system you want to claim.

Stage 1: Finding a suitable system.
While in theory you could colonize just about any system by putting up a station or outpost I think those would be waypoints at best instead of qualifying as fully colonized. For a full-on colonization you would require a system that can sustain life - meaning terraformable planets (preferrable ELW or water world so that future colonits have a place to live beyond the confinement of orbital installations).

When the player found a system that he/she is content with they can then deploy a claim marker near the sun (think of it as a solar-powered satellite broadcasting locally that this system has been claimed by Player X and is awaiting further colonization. If the colonization is then not advanced beyond this stage within a certain timeframe (1-3 months for example) the satellite will cease its operation and despawn, effectively rendering the system available for others to claim it once more.

Stage 2: Setting up the infrastructure:

After claiming a system in Stage 1 the player next needs to set up some basic infrastructure for the first colonists to use. To do this there are three options: Planetary colonies, Outposts and Stations. Each of these three would be built as a modular structure the layout and purpose of which would be the player's choice. All three of which would require a frame to be transported to the desired location and deployed there. To turn the frame into a fully functional installation would then require large quantities of resources, some of which may be mined locally if the player is lucky, but otherwise would have to be transported to the site from elsewhere. Depending on the structure the player wants to build we are talking thousands if not hundreds of thousands of tons of material here, depending on what the player wants to build. The frame would also offer a single docking platform through which a player can unload their shipment of material along the lines of regular commodity trade - with the exception that they would not get paid for their delivery. Instead the material would go toward the pool of resources needed to complete construction. In this effort other players can be allowed to also dock with the installation and thus help the owner of the colony to speed up construction.

To be clear: This stage is likely going to take months or even years to complete, if the player in question tries to go big. Once the first such installation is completed and stocked with basic provisions the player can either put down frames for additional installations or proceed with Stage 3.

Stage 3: Populating the colony
With the initial base of operations set up the player can now begin to transport colonists to the system. I can see several ways of how to do that:
1st: Transport of colonists as passengers to get the initial staff in place and start operation (basically a mission saying that colonists are looking for a new home) or
2nd: Bulk-transport of colonists in cryo-pods which work like a commodity and allow to transport significantly larger numbers of colonists per flight. However, to get people out of these pods you would require some basic staff already present at the installation - hence the previous proposal.

Depending on the size of the initial installation you would require a certain number of colonists to begin operations proper. Once that is reached the installation becomes fully operational like the ones you already see in the game (albeit with limited services available) - with the exception that the player can modify and manage their own installations to their leisure - meaning to determine which installation serves which purpose (industry, agriculture etc.), perhaps even naming some of the NPC-groups aboard and giving them a bit of backstory if he/she is feeling creative.

If applicable any colonits transported to the base beyond the station's capacity will subsequently be transferred to the planets themselves (more on that see in next stage)
Since the colony is at this point gaining momentum it is time to look at the local surroundings - welcome to Stage 4.

Stage 4: Accessing natural resources:
Now that the initial base is up and running it is time to explore what the base can gain from the planetary body it is linked to (either through orbiting or being located on said body). Basically this means tapping into the resources offered by the planet in question in order to gain production bonuses depending on how large a population is available to tap into such resources. As the colony grows further this results in an increase in local supply and demand for the goods in question if the installation's purpose matches the planet. To give an example let's say a player has built a Station in orbit over a water world or ELW and set it to agriculture - this would allow the colonits to use the planet for additional production of food for example. If the same station, however, has been set to refinery it would barely benefit from orbiting a water world at all, so the supply would not grow as much. Demand, however, would at least increase besed on the station's and planet's population.
So it is in every player's best interest to match an installation's purpose to what the linked orbital boddy offers.

Stage 5: Expansion and Management:

As final touches the player can further upgrade the existing installation through a variety of upgrades beyond mere commodity exchange and repair facilities. They can add pretty much all the other features you know from other ingame installations (with shipyards and outfitting services coming in tiers that determine what exactly they have to offer) Also on stations the player can add garrison-structures which result in system-security NPCs patrolling the system depending o.n the garrison level. In terms of management the player can flag certain goods as legal or illegal within their system, resulting in the NPC patrols taking action accordingly. Changes hzere are applied only once every 24 hours to avoid explots.

Additionally a player is not limited to just one structure in the system - although a limitation of one orbital installation per stellar body is a given. But planetside you are free to create as many installations as you see fit (or as many as the game allows you to).

=================

Given enough time and effort this proposal can create a fully functional system in the middle of nowhere which makes the game feel less static as far as I am concerned.

What do you guys think about this proposal?
 
I like it, but I think it might be a lot of work, and some players might want to do this but not have the time to do so. Maybe let players do this in squadrons? With squadron and carriers coming soon, I think this could be a potential non-combat use for carriers.

I really want to be able to drop beacons in systems to say 'this is mine, go away' :D
 
First of all I have to admit that I have not read all of the OP wall of text. However...

I like the idea. I had hoped that we would see something like this already. The idea of crafting and loot, when it was trailed led me to think that we could have our own "stashes" of loot - of course it turned out to be nothing like that in practice.

F D seem really reticent about their BGS - they won't even let it have it's own sub-forum on here - so I wonder how utilisation of that might lend to "colonisation".

In any event, yes please to setting-up player bases and developing colonisation.

[up]
 
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There has a few suggestions like this over the last couple years and while it would seem most players like the idea it would most likely not happen very soon. This probably would require as much effort to implement as atmospheric planets and legs. So put this item 3rd on the list and guess when it will happen.

Personally I would like this a lot. My own little piece of some forsaken planet in the middle of nowhere. Sitting on my front porch (or view port) and watching an alien sunrise while enjoying my favorite brew from my personal hutton mug.

We can all dream
Caliber_az
 
If anyone got some feedback about things I may have overlooked, go ahead and tell me. I know, getting this implemented is somewhat unlikely, but if we can get stuff hashed out as thoroughly as possible I am guessing that we can increase our chances for getting it implemented since it would save the devs some time by skipping over their concept-phase.
 
I really like the idea, but I wouldnt limit it to one per player, rather make it expensive so that the cost regulates the growth. Also, create a way that players can 'fund' the effort by donating to a common account. That way groups can work together to make a group colony. This facilitates true participation in factions. Unlike what Frontier has done with current factions where your standing bleeds off it you dont pay every week with activities to maintain, this growth will remain and will motivate players to participate and work together. HEY FRONTIER - take a look at the fuel rats and think about how that has grown outside the game. The communications and purpose has developed a community. Giving players the ability to colonize and opening up the economy for free enterprise will make ED a whole new experience...instead of people saying: "its really pretty, but there is nothing to do".
 
After all combat-oriented players can resort to PvP whereas traders and explorers have no such 'endgame'-activity This proposal seeks to offer such an option for this kind of PvE-focused players.

Uh, excuse me.... As a Deep Space Explorer, I do have an endgame activity.... to mark as many planets and systems with my name as possible. I know it doesn't seem like much of an endgame -- but given how many systems there are in the sandbox, it's an undertaking.

You're not the first person to suggest this in the last three months. In fact, I think you're about the third or fourth. There are a couple of logistical problems with this...

1. We cannot currently land on planets with atmospheres. Ice worlds might be next but that's not happening until 2018 and we're sort of not sure when. Sure they might have given us a quarter, but experience has shown that this can go sideways if the devs break the game... And they will in some way break the game.

2. What you're suggesting isn't a Space Simulator; what you're suggesting is something like Sim City come Space Engineers with a planet. While I like the idea in passing, I can tell you that it's way too ambitious for the glacial approach FDev takes with adding content to the game.

I would endorse this with a +1 for rep to you for your courageous effort. However, it's not something we'll be seeing for this game for years to come. In fact, I'm waiting patiently to see how this Crime & Punishment is going to work out first. I am both incredulous and repulsed by some of what I heard from the livestream a couple of weeks ago and this seems more something that more people should be paying attention to rather than trying to add something to the game that goes well beyond the current scope that has been presented.
 
Uh, excuse me.... As a Deep Space Explorer, I do have an endgame activity.... to mark as many planets and systems with my name as possible. I know it doesn't seem like much of an endgame -- but given how many systems there are in the sandbox, it's an undertaking.

You're not the first person to suggest this in the last three months. In fact, I think you're about the third or fourth. There are a couple of logistical problems with this...

1. We cannot currently land on planets with atmospheres. Ice worlds might be next but that's not happening until 2018 and we're sort of not sure when. Sure they might have given us a quarter, but experience has shown that this can go sideways if the devs break the game... And they will in some way break the game.

2. What you're suggesting isn't a Space Simulator; what you're suggesting is something like Sim City come Space Engineers with a planet. While I like the idea in passing, I can tell you that it's way too ambitious for the glacial approach FDev takes with adding content to the game.

I would endorse this with a +1 for rep to you for your courageous effort. However, it's not something we'll be seeing for this game for years to come. In fact, I'm waiting patiently to see how this Crime & Punishment is going to work out first. I am both incredulous and repulsed by some of what I heard from the livestream a couple of weeks ago and this seems more something that more people should be paying attention to rather than trying to add something to the game that goes well beyond the current scope that has been presented.

I am doing my fair share of exploring myself, so I know what you are referring to. However, it is the very same thing day in, day out. What I am aiming for is to give us te opportunity do actually DO something with the systems we explore. And be it to create a small waystation for other explorers to dock andget their ship fixed. After all there are a fewt things an AFMU can't fix in space.

As for landing on planets with atmospheres, I am aware of that and was more referring to planetary bases the like of which we have since Horizons. The population transfer from base to planet I mentioned would not automatically form a landable location but rather have the given planet have population which essentially is scattered across the surface and thus avoids the problem of not being able to enter said atmosphere.
 
Anything that provides greater interaction with the background simulation would be appreciated - particulary where changes go both ways. By that I mean that you respond to the BGC and the BGC responds to what you are doing

Colonisation is a huge effort. Perhaps it could be done with the sponsorship or through a minor faction. This could be part of greated interaction and "membership" concept for minor factions (see recent thread in this forum).

One concern is that these are perminant shared additions to the universe. Given that it seems to need an update to change the curtains in a station, there is a lot of ground work (pun?) before we can see your colony growning. When we see new domes or modules being constructed at outposts, we can look to growing colonies.
 
I am doing my fair share of exploring myself, so I know what you are referring to. However, it is the very same thing day in, day out. What I am aiming for is to give us te opportunity do actually DO something with the systems we explore. And be it to create a small waystation for other explorers to dock andget their ship fixed. After all there are a fewt things an AFMU can't fix in space.

As for landing on planets with atmospheres, I am aware of that and was more referring to planetary bases the like of which we have since Horizons. The population transfer from base to planet I mentioned would not automatically form a landable location but rather have the given planet have population which essentially is scattered across the surface and thus avoids the problem of not being able to enter said atmosphere.

There are definite logistical problems with this suggestion. And to the duplicate suggestions that seem to be cropping up with fervor since it was announced of fleet carriers. So whoever comes by to check on them -- consider this a guideline from a serious hard sci-fi fan.

1. This game is trying really hard to be hard sci-fi. As a gamer, you are often used to being able to wave your hand in a direction and say, "let it happen.." First off, how long was the Colonia Initiative going on since the discovery of Beagle Point? We have time compression through editing, but feel free to ask the developers and their PR man; they'll probably tell you years. The reality is, a colonization effort takes longer than that in a space setting.

2. Next, with the problems of Jacques Station going off course and ending up in Colonia instead, how many wings were involved in the CG that occurred at the beginning of the year. I know at least 5 (who got their names placed out there) but there were in fact more. Are these wings going to be helping you... each of us... with establishing a colony? Further are the three major powers going to be helping us as well? Each of us?

3. Assuming the three powers and the wings that did the initiatives for the Colonia push aren't going to be helping each of us set it up, you can already tell who might be working for those colonies. So what is the cut off before the costs become too much for people to create their own empires? Here's a basic list thanks to Inara: https://inara.cz/wings/

4. Like it or not gamers are Little Napoleons in nature. Anyone with aspirations of Empire building is going to want their own colony. When will it become too much for the player base... ESPECIALLY when you consider how much campaigning is going to happen when they lack the resources, the initiative/bloodymindedness and lack of audience to fawn over their empire? Don't think it will be and that that practically everyone will be working for an empire of their own? Go check out the insanity of fleet base construction on Star Trek: Online. Or better still how many ghost clans there are in Warframe (yep, I'm one of them. But then I formed it 4 years ago and can show off the proof to that upon invite).

5. This game is played in real time... 1 minute of game time == 1 minute of time in the world. How long do you honestly think it takes for a colony to be formed/established as self-sufficient? A couple of days? A month? No, try years. How long is it taking we earthlings to form a colony on Mars since landing on the moon. Within the game consider that people aren't going to have the big three or these Colonia Expansion Initiative to take advantage of. Do you honestly think you're going to be around 5 years for it to be something "regular" or are you expecting time to elapse quickly with a wave of your hand?

6. Expenditures.. All right let's throw some numbers now... it's believed that setting up a colony on Mars is going to take anywhere from 9 - 500 billion USD. Given technology levels and inflation, how much will that work out to 3303 credits? Are you willing to throw that much money at a colony or do you think this should be one of those hand-waving "make it happen" sort of things to wave costs? And if you think it's easy -- remember this -- there is currently a waiting list for wings that's longer than 6 months. It's been pushed off since the hyp from Frontier Expo in the hopes the carrier will work out for them.

I know, I know... All this data burns any Deep Space Explorer that such information that earned them their Elite Ranking is sitting there doing nothing. We're at the whims of the empires. Be it the fictitious Big Three or the Devs. And nothing we're doing is going to matter really when the game stops in the future.
 
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There are definite logistical problems with this suggestion. And to the duplicate suggestions that seem to be cropping up with fervor since it was announced of fleet carriers. So whoever comes by to check on them -- consider this a guideline from a serious hard sci-fi fan.

1. This game is trying really hard to be hard sci-fi. As a gamer, you are often used to being able to wave your hand in a direction and say, "let it happen.." First off, how long was the Colonia Initiative going on since the discovery of Beagle Point? We have time compression through editing, but feel free to ask the developers and their PR man; they'll probably tell you years. The reality is, a colonization effort takes longer than that in a space setting.

2. Next, with the problems of Jacques Station going off course and ending up in Colonia instead, how many wings were involved in the CG that occurred at the beginning of the year. I know at least 5 (who got their names placed out there) but there were in fact more. Are these wings going to be helping you... each of us... with establishing a colony? Further are the three major powers going to be helping us as well? Each of us?

3. Assuming the three powers and the wings that did the initiatives for the Colonia push aren't going to be helping each of us set it up, you can already tell who might be working for those colonies. So what is the cut off before the costs become too much for people to create their own empires? Here's a basic list thanks to Inara: https://inara.cz/wings/

4. Like it or not gamers are Little Napoleons in nature. Anyone with aspirations of Empire building is going to want their own colony. When will it become too much for the player base... ESPECIALLY when you consider how much campaigning is going to happen when they lack the resources, the initiative/bloodymindedness and lack of audience to fawn over their empire? Don't think it will be and that that practically everyone will be working for an empire of their own? Go check out the insanity of fleet base construction on Star Trek: Online. Or better still how many ghost clans there are in Warframe (yep, I'm one of them. But then I formed it 4 years ago and can show off the proof to that upon invite).

5. This game is played in real time... 1 minute of game time == 1 minute of time in the world. How long do you honestly think it takes for a colony to be formed/established as self-sufficient? A couple of days? A month? No, try years. How long is it taking we earthlings to form a colony on Mars since landing on the moon. Within the game consider that people aren't going to have the big three or these Colonia Expansion Initiative to take advantage of. Do you honestly think you're going to be around 5 years for it to be something "regular" or are you expecting time to elapse quickly with a wave of your hand?

6. Expenditures.. All right let's throw some numbers now... it's believed that setting up a colony on Mars is going to take anywhere from 9 - 500 billion USD. Given technology levels and inflation, how much will that work out to 3303 credits? Are you willing to throw that much money at a colony or do you think this should be one of those hand-waving "make it happen" sort of things to wave costs? And if you think it's easy -- remember this -- there is currently a waiting list for wings that's longer than 6 months. It's been pushed off since the hyp from Frontier Expo in the hopes the carrier will work out for them.

I know, I know... All this data burns any Deep Space Explorer that such information that earned them their Elite Ranking is sitting there doing nothing. We're at the whims of the empires. Be it the fictitious Big Three or the Devs. And nothing we're doing is going to matter really when the game stops in the future.

I think i do see your points, but that doesn't keep me from wishing for this to be implemented at some point. After all it would give people a feeling of actually influencing the universe in their own way. Sure, there is power play, but that to me seems lnot to be of much consequence since it only affects various bonuses being shifted back and forth between systems. Colonization on the other hand would allow players to actually create something new.

Besides as you may have noticed when reading my proposal I actually took into consideration your points on how long it would take and the resources it would require. I am well aware what an enormous effort it would take to get all the stuff out into deep space to create a waystation there - even if multiple players are contributing to one colony project.
 
Really awesome idea but yeah, as already said, letting people do that in squadron / group could be better / quicker than doing this alone.
 
............. I deleted my post as it wasn't a very good joke .....

I have hopes for you yet.

I think i do see your points, but that doesn't keep me from wishing for this to be implemented at some point. After all it would give people a feeling of actually influencing the universe in their own way. Sure, there is power play, but that to me seems lnot to be of much consequence since it only affects various bonuses being shifted back and forth between systems. Colonization on the other hand would allow players to actually create something new.

Wishing is always a good thing... After all as the saying goes, If wishes were fishes we'd all swim in riches...

I had been thinking carefully on this after my rather curmudgeonly response, as I'm fond of saying in the suggestions forums here -- you're putting the cart well before the horse. It's a good idea, but seems extremely ambitious given we haven't remotely seen hide nor hair of the hype being generated for the fleet carrier yet (and we know we won't be seeing this until the end of next year most probably)...

However, I'm beginning to feel that what was said in this big rant has been and indicator to the overwhelming drive of suggestions in this forum. That player agency in this game is appallingly lacking. We're here to be amazed at the size of the sandbox, but don't have much ability to touch much in it to feel as though we're actually part of it. Something I might be addressing in the next couple of days. (Yeah, yeah, I will this time I guarantee it).

Besides as you may have noticed when reading my proposal I actually took into consideration your points on how long it would take and the resources it would require. I am well aware what an enormous effort it would take to get all the stuff out into deep space to create a waystation there - even if multiple players are contributing to one colony project.

Actually I glanced over it. I wanted to stress expenditures partially to hear myself say it, partially because it was something that had to be said. Sort of a shake up on the wish being too high in the sky.

I have to say that DE did one of the most ambitious ideas when it came to clan dojos in any MMO game that I've played. They were able to create the ability for the Little Napoleons (and Hitlers) of the gaming community to create a dojo based on the material requirements proportional to the size of the clan.

In your message, I even saw the possibility of a Fleet/Wing Base like the alien retreat in Jack McDevitt's book -- Chindi -- that was described with exquisite detail. However, do I see this sort of thing being incorporated into ED?

No, absolutely not. Colonization on any planet is currently a pipe dream. Colonizing an ELW for a Wing/Fleet a pipe dream's pipe dream. Even in a non-atmospheric planet, I can't see FDev allowing this sort of thing to mar the surface of their sandbox. They have most assuredly not let go their control for injecting wings in the game and this feeling of a fleet ship/base sounds like they're not going to be letting go of it either.

So... just remember... If wishes were fishes...
 
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@OP - A good basic proposal, although it does not address several things.

The BGS was already mentioned, economy would be another thing. Does the "owning" player get a tangible reward from the colony, do other playes get paid for the haulage aspects of the proposal, and, if so, where does the money come from?

Abandonment is also commonly mentioned, ie what happens if the player stops contributing before the colony is self sustaining?

There has a few suggestions like this over the last couple years and while it would seem most players like the idea it would most likely not happen very soon. This probably would require as much effort to implement as atmospheric planets and legs. So put this item 3rd on the list and guess when it will happen.
>snip<
Caliber_az

I think this is an incorrect perception. Those three items should be viewed as one project, not as three separate ones.

@MBaldelli - I believe that some of the points you raise are inaccurate based on the existence of FTL travel AND the ability, as the OP points out, that we can move a lot of persons as haulage. If those aspects did not exist, you would have a much more robust argument, but, given that we can use cargo carriers to supply, I think the validity of this proposal is much higher than you give credit for.
 
@MBaldelli - I believe that some of the points you raise are inaccurate based on the existence of FTL travel AND the ability, as the OP points out, that we can move a lot of persons as haulage. If those aspects did not exist, you would have a much more robust argument, but, given that we can use cargo carriers to supply, I think the validity of this proposal is much higher than you give credit for.

The travel isn't really the problem. The problem is that regardless of the speed one can move from one location to another, it's still the coordinated costs for moving from established place of living to nothing. It would be like moving your home from <insert city/town/what-have-you> to an acre plot of land that has no electricity, plumbing, basics of running water (e.g., A River, Lake) and having to build your house up from either available resources, or those that you imported.

Can you build that house from sratch with only you, your family and whatever friends willing to help you do the building? How long would it take and how much resources would you require?

Here's the problem I had with the Colonia Initiative CGs (Phase I, II and III)... The Initiative was over simplified because it was the devs idea to actually have an Orbus Station magically drop out of witchspace in the Colonia area. And the devs made it nothing more than a lot of busy-work (in the form of transporting tour books) from the Bubble to Colonia for those wings that participated in it for placing a colony out there from their wing... Colonies and bases that were hand-waved into place only because FDev has the power to do so.... (that has the same sort of connotation that Lord British used to pull when he played his own game and it burns my cookies every time I see it).
I understood that FDev couldn't make it realistic... The wings that participated would've probably rage quit if it was done in a realistic manner.

At the same time, I'm considering something else that FDev has provided ample proof to in their injections of wings into the game coupled with the fact they've pushed it off with the Fleet Offering some time in 2018: they don't want their pretty (albeit vacant) sandbox from being sullied by random players wanting to channel their inner Little Napoleon. With that in mind, it's entirely possible that they would suddenly (and arbitrarily) add inordinate amounts of resource requirements to hinder players from colonizing efforts.
 
...and having to build your house up from either available resources, or those that you imported.

Can you build that house from sratch with only you, your family and whatever friends willing to help you do the building? How long would it take and how much resources would you require?

That also depends on the ability of the prefabs of the 32nd Century. Even if you are doing it by yourself, if you have a T-9, you can certainly move a lot of cargo, and I would think that things such as power generation are going to be fairly easy given that we fly ships with megawatt power budgets.

Here's the problem I had with the Colonia Initiative CGs (Phase I, II and III)... The Initiative was over simplified because it was the devs idea to actually have an Orbus Station magically drop out of witchspace in the Colonia area. And the devs made it nothing more than a lot of busy-work (in the form of transporting tour books) from the Bubble to Colonia for those wings that participated in it for placing a colony out there from their wing... Colonies and bases that were hand-waved into place only because FDev has the power to do so.... (that has the same sort of connotation that Lord British used to pull when he played his own game and it burns my cookies every time I see it).
I understood that FDev couldn't make it realistic... The wings that participated would've probably rage quit if it was done in a realistic manner.

You are also ignoring the existence of the NPC base in presuming that only the players would have been involved.
 
That also depends on the ability of the prefabs of the 32nd Century. Even if you are doing it by yourself, if you have a T-9, you can certainly move a lot of cargo, and I would think that things such as power generation are going to be fairly easy given that we fly ships with megawatt power budgets.

Prefabrication takes up mass and space. You can only transport just so much on one ship in order to make parts of it feasible. Even several ships. Kim Stanley Robinson covered this in his series of books if you have any questions as to limits. And there are limits to it no matter what you do...

Unless you're implying the introduction of replicator technology... While Niven implied it when it came to Ringworld, even then you need to have a sustainable power supply (not to mention necessary technology to keep it in good working order) in order to fully utilize it. And this takes... more mass and space. Never mind running into some of the more traditional hard sci-fi fans that might have issues with the introduction of replicator technology in this game... Not to mention will let genies out of their bottles especially when you consider that ships in this game lack any true "future-tech" feeling to them. While it can be debatable for the Gutamaya line of ships; the Diamondbacks shoot that rather well out of the water because they seem more like bomber cockpits than something tooling around space in the 34th century.

You are also ignoring the existence of the NPC base in presuming that only the players would have been involved.

You can try to use this as a means to say, "oh, the devs thought about this..." Except we didn't see it in action during the initiatives -- and I know for a fact that I didn't see it during the second initiative when I was part of Privateer's Alliance.

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
 
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