Idea of Scale

[D8ncer]

Have tried running ED on my LG G3 phone with Trinus Gyre and works ok as a slight indication of what VR in the game is like.

What I am trying to get is an idea of scale when using the DK2. For instance when I used my phone, although I am in the cockpit the dashboard and Hud display looked about 1-2 metres away. Was still like looking at my normal monitor as such. Just slightly further in front of me.

When you look through the rift how far is the dash, your hands away, etc. Are they the same distance as if you looked at your real hands without the rift on?

Also how far would you say the control panel is relative to real life. How big is the holographic images of the planet on the display inside the rift.

 

[Frank]

The problem is that all the ships have different sized cockpits. I'm flying an Asp and the cockpit in that is humungous. I can't play to check for definite as I'm at work <sigh>, but nothing is at arm's length apart from the joystick. A more constant reference of scale would be the headless body above which you are floating. It looks slightly smaller than average, but still large enough to be life-sized.

 

[Ancipital]

When you look through the rift how far is the dash, your hands away, etc. Are they the same distance as if you looked at your real hands without the rift on?

Pretty much, yes.. if I had smaller shoulders.. and a more eventful chest. I suddenly remembered that I had made my pilot female. As I am male and above average height, my in-game "body" is smaller, but not confusingly so.

(I can't believe that this forum doesn't let you say the most common and perfectly acceptable word, rhymes with "rests", sheesh)

The in-game joystick and throttle are approximately where I'd expect. The cockpit environment varies wildly, obviously. Right now, I am doing a lot of missions in my little Vulture, and even that is pretty roomy, compared to a little disposable sidey. A T-9 will stop you in your tracks!

 

[777Driver]

You need an IPD of 55 or even better 53 (through editing some config files) Then everything looks in real scale - My T9 for example looks huge, the drop to the hanger floor when in dock looks far away, even the main canopy is far away.

For some reason the rift tool gives you an IPD in the 60's, only found out about lowering it 53 by pure chance.

 

[Ancipital]

You need an IPD of 55 or even better 53 (through editing some config files) Then everything looks in real scale - My T9 for example looks huge, the drop to floor when in dock looks far away, even the main canopy is far away.

No, that's not how stereoscopy works. Set your IPD to what your IPD is, otherwise you're like someone who uses the "loudness" button on an amp. Having recently had mine professionally measured, I can attest that the Rift's own measurement isn't far out, so don't be scared to use its own measurement routines.

 

[777Driver]

No, that's not how stereoscopy works. Set your IPD to what your IPD is, otherwise you're like someone who uses the "loudness" button on an amp. Having recently had mine professionally measured, I can attest that the Rift's own measurement isn't far out, so don't be scared to use its own measurement routines.

No... that is how it works for me and many others, search the net... Have you tried lowering the IPD? So many complained about the pilots body not looking right. Even the Oculus devs suggest using 55 in ED.. My info came straight from browsing the Oculus forum

For other apps I use the suggested IPD. This is not some info I randomly came up with, suggested IPD does not work correctly with ED, the difference is huge between 55 and suggested IPD

 

[Soda Popinski]

No... that is how it works for me and many others, search the net... Have you tried lowering the IPD? So many complained about the pilots body not looking right. Even the Oculus devs suggest using 55 in ED.. My info came straight from browsing the Oculus forum

For other apps I use the suggested IPD. This is not some info I randomly came up with, suggested IPD does not work correctly with ED, the difference is huge between 55 and and suggested IPD

Makes sense. There's not guarantee 1 real meter = 1 Elite: Dangerous meter in the space ship. Scale is often fudged in 1st person games to either make the monitor view look "correct" or in FPSes, make it easier to walk through the doors.

I don't believe ED was built from the ground up for VR, so I wouldn't be surprised if the scaling wasn't matching perfectly. Anything much further than a dozen meters or so, IPD doens't matter - so planets and stars can be scaled correctly.

 

[Mike Evans]

Makes sense. There's not guarantee 1 real meter = 1 Elite: Dangerous meter in the space ship. Scale is often fudged in 1st person games to either make the monitor view look "correct" or in FPSes, make it easier to walk through the doors.

I don't believe ED was built from the ground up for VR, so I wouldn't be surprised if the scaling wasn't matching perfectly. Anything much further than a dozen meters or so, IPD doens't matter - so planets and stars can be scaled correctly.

Our models are built with a consistent scaling relative to each other so 1 metre in our game should equate to 1 metre in real life and thus oculus providing they're set up correctly. There was no reason to fudge scaling like they do in FPSes.

 

[Ancipital]

No... that is how it works for me and many others, search the net... Have you tried lowering the IPD?

Whatever, dude. Enjoy your "loudness" button. Many do, doesn't mean it's right.

 

[777Driver]

Whatever, dude. Enjoy your "loudness" button. Many do, doesn't mean it's right. I have seen plenty of bad stereoscopy, even on big commercial projects, it's quite sad.

Haha yes, I will enjoy sitting in a mans body and correctly scaled ship. If you are happy being an 8 year in game than go right ahead buddy, It doesn't change my ingame experience what you choose to do. Live and let live dude...

Quite sad? lol, listen to yourself...

 

[Ancipital]

I don't believe ED was built from the ground up for VR, so I wouldn't be surprised if the scaling wasn't matching perfectly. Anything much further than a dozen meters or so, IPD doens't matter - so planets and stars can be scaled correctly.

In real world stereo, at least, that's not true. I've played with experimental footage of a Rugby match taken in a large stadium, using two large cameras bolted to scaffolding poles (I know, right).. That gave you an IPD of a few meters, and as a side effect, made the big scary players look like Subbuteo figures. It took viewers ages to work out what was bothering them.

That was one of the weirder problems- a lot of commercial projects got the screen plane and infinity plane wrong, too. It's funny and subtle, and the science and tech behind it is often ignored. The general public understand it even less well than film makers- the sort of people who like Sony TVs with massive post processing and V-shaped EQ curves in loud cars do horrible brain-wrenching things with amateur 3D tinkering

Haha yes, I will enjoy sitting in a mans body and correctly scaled ship. If you are happy being an 8 year in game than go right ahead buddy, It doesn't change my ingame experience what you choose to do. Live and let live dude...

Quite sad? lol, listen to yourself...

Well you just confirmed initial impressions from that avatar picture. Well done you.

 

[jbebad]

Yes lowering IPD will make scale larger, though effects stereo affect. There is also the issue of proprioception via feet when sitting. Body knows where ground is and if eye level in rift does not match reality will scale world. Note the seat night in ships is similar to standing. Stand up in rift and reset position, world scale may then appear larger. Or raise feet off floor/cross legs.

 

[777Driver]

#
You are stupid and offensive, please go away.

How about this.. NO.. What are you going to do about it? You insult me, and due to your small mind and OCD about IPD, you can't accept the fact that we can customize our setups to achieve the results WE want. And you have the cheek to tell me to go away? Good thing this forum is moderated, or I'd tell you what I really think of you.

You are not convincing anyone here.. At least I found a reason to use that ignore button.

 

[Mazhurg]

Our models are built with a consistent scaling relative to each other so 1 metre in our game should equate to 1 metre in real life and thus oculus providing they're set up correctly. There was no reason to fudge scaling like they do in FPSes.

Mike,

Where/how do you infer the player eyes height measurement? I mean by that the distance between floor -> seat -> neck -> eyes? I would suspect that a lot of "scaling" issues would arise from people that are either taller or shorter than average on the "seat" -> eyes distance.

 

[Mike Evans]

Mike,

Where/how do you infer the player eyes height measurement? I mean by that the distance between floor -> seat -> neck -> eyes? I would suspect that a lot of "scaling" issues would arise from people that are either taller or shorter than average on the "seat" -> eyes distance.

We don't obviously. Essentially everyone is playing as a certain sized avatar in a space seat. I guess that can cause some issues but then again unless you have the exact same seat as our cockpits then I guess there will always be issues even if your eye height was correct. There is some ability to set the neutral point of the eyes in oculus by trial and error though. I wonder if that helps.

 

[Mazhurg]

Mmm... Perhaps that could be an Oculus config parameter (oculus config tool) and that game could then use those measurements as it does the ipd?

 

[Ancipital]

We don't obviously. Essentially everyone is playing as a certain sized avatar in a space seat. I guess that can cause some issues but then again unless you have the exact same seat as our cockpits then I guess there will always be issues even if your eye height was correct. There is some ability to set the neutral point of the eyes in oculus by trial and error though. I wonder if that helps.

It does, once things are set up correctly- at least a little. If you adopt a similar posture and use "reset headlook", it helps. That said, it's mostly useful for avoiding clipping back through the seat Once you get the correspondence close enough, it starts to feel quite eerie.

 

[jbebad]

Mmm... Perhaps that could be an Oculus config parameter (oculus config tool) and that game could then use those measurements as it does the ipd?

There is an interesting Oculus keynote speech which mentions scale/sitting issue. Similar issue in reverse happens in Asseto Corsa in very low down race cars, scale looks too big!

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It does, once things are set up correctly- at least a little. If you adopt a similar posture and use "reset headlook", it helps. That said, it's mostly useful for avoiding clipping back through the seat Once you get the correspondence close enough, it starts to feel quite eerie.

Yes I use this trick in both elite and Asseto Corsa.Matching sitting height to world ground/floor has a big impact on accurate scale/immersion.

 

[777Driver]

Mmm... Perhaps that could be an Oculus config parameter (oculus config tool) and that game could then use those measurements as it does the ipd?

You may want to check the Oculus forums, a bunch of guy's already did the trail and error player height tests in ED (along with IPD) It turns out matching player height with your real world height may not achieve the best results. I have mine set to 6' 2", still IPD was the easiest way to resolve the issue, the chair size in game matches my real gaming seat, and most importantly, the hand size/joystick size and body size is correct.

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There is an interesting Oculus keynote speech which mentions scale/sitting issue. Similar issue in reverse happens in Asseto Corsa in very low down race cars, scale looks too big!

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -


Yes I use this trick in both elite and Asseto Corsa.Matching sitting height to world ground/floor has a big impact on accurate scale/immersion.

I didn't even think that was a trick, it is essential to align the rift in ED, I have a voice attack command to align the rift. Will use a few times in a gaming session, especially if I am out of my seat walking around the bridge of a ship.

 

[Mazhurg]

We are not really talking about the player's height here though. It's more of the eyes height above a seated point (torso and neck height), which can also be very different from person to person and would affect how scale is perceived. Mind you, it's easy to adjust to once you are aware of the difference but it can take people by surprise and lead some to assume that the scale is wrong from their perspectives.