If you thought new Crime and Punishment was PvP only...

[Phisto Sobanii]

...how on earth did you get that idea?

Follow up question: if you were persuaded to this position or fed information that lead you to believe it did you hold those responsible accountable by, at minimum, calling them out on being so extraordinarily wrong?

 

[CMDR M. Lehman]

The changes to C&P only underscored just how lenient the previous system was- that even most of the PvE crowd was so used to committing crime that they were no longer conscious of doing so. In their minds, "crime" was when one CMDR attacked another without consent (a ridiculous concept if both knowingly clicked on "open" at the main menu), and not something that was part of their participation in the latest cash cow exploit.

What many of these CMDRs wanted when they were demanding "real" C & P was an arbitrary punishment of a style of play that they for some reason dislike. When what they got was literally being punished for in-game crime, they didn't know what to do with themselves, so accustomed were they to sloppy flying and even sloppier fire control.

It's telling that the reaction to the new C & P system from the PvP vs the PvE crowd is nearly a black-and-white binary. I normally hate generalizing like that- but between Facebook, Reddit, and the forums, I can't help seeing what I'm seeing.

 

[Tarman]

The changes to C&P only underscored just how lenient the previous system was- that even most of the PvE crowd was so used to committing crime that it didn't occur to them that they were doing so. In their minds, "crime" was when one CMDR attacked another without consent (a ridiculous concept if both knowingly clicked on "open" at the main menu), and not something that was part of their participation in the latest cash cow exploit.

What many of these CMDRs wanted when they were demanding "real" C & P was an arbitrary punishment of a style of play that they for some reason dislike. When what they got was literally being punished for in-game crime, they didn't know what to do with themselves, so accustomed were they to sloppy flying and even sloppier fire control.

It's telling that the reaction to the new C & P system from the PvP vs the PvE crowd is nearly a black-and-white binary. I normally hate generalizing like that- but between Facebook, Reddit, and the forums, I can't help seeing what I'm seeing.

I have to agree with the state of crime noticeability; crime has been so poorly reflected for so long that I'd imagine many of the "this new stuff sucks!" comments are from people who have been long-time unwitting career criminals. C&P was always intended (as I saw it coming at least) for all crime that happens in the game's definition of crime, not to bolster what some player thinks of some other player's actions on a personal level.

I want criminal gameplay to deepen greatly, not to expand a draconian tool of law to "get" other players for being meanieheads (because that is a silly and pointless quest), but to contextualize crime ingame to allow all the roles from profit skimmer to shifty arms smuggler to outright war criminal to be properly represented both in risk and reward. Big guns for big criminals on the enforcement front, so to speak; but also big gains for the successful and lucky rogue, and lots of low-hanging grey-area fruit to tempt more people into committing crimes intentionally for a change. I'd like some forms of corruption gameplay as well, for those who prefer their crime to be white-collar.

More law enforcement paradigms, sure. It'd be nice to see this really diversify by government and economic status, see some systems where the cops are so good they're evil for example, that kind of texturing. But crime needs to be interesting for both sides of the law or it's useless.

 

[Mohrgan]

I find it hard to imagine anyone, who followed the conversation about C&P, could come to the conclusion FD were only planning to punish PvP. It was stated over and over again that FD wants to allow for mischief, but only to add consequences. And, intended to add consequences for all crime.

What we see, from both sides of the great divide, are those that accepted second-hand reinterpretations of FD's intent. A least a week before 3.0 was released FD posted an outline of the new C&P program. That was/is completely clear that C&P would be applied universally. Any complaints or misunderstandings are borne out of complacency.

 

[CMDR M. Lehman]

I find it hard to imagine anyone, who followed the conversation about C&P, could come to the conclusion FD were only planning to punish PvP. It was stated over and over again that FD wants to allow for mischief, but only to add consequences. And, intended to add consequences for all crime.

What we see, from both sides of the great divide, are those that accepted second-hand reinterpretations of FD's intent. A least a week before 3.0 was released FD posted an outline of the new C&P program. That was/is completely clear that C&P would be applied universally. Any complaints or misunderstandings are borne out of complacency.

What you say is true- and yet here we are, with people unable to wrap their heads around the fact that their actions have consequences, or that they should pay attention to their loadouts (maybe turrets aren't such a good idea in a REZ, for example).

I think that what happened is that many people were so wedded to their private ideas of "right" and "wrong" in this game that they only saw the "griefers" as the ones committing crime, not them. Hence the massive amount of salt spilled- with only a few grains in comparison from the PvP and criminal crowds.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

I like the new C&P system, because it enhances the PvE part of the game. It makes not committing crimes more interesting. Without consequences decisions become meaningless.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

More law enforcement paradigms, sure. It'd be nice to see this really diversify by government and economic status, see some systems where the cops are so good they're evil for example, that kind of texturing. But crime needs to be interesting for both sides of the law or it's useless.

I like the sound of this very much. Law enforcement, sadly, can be used for some very nefarious purposes!

Anarchies are kind graying things up already - in so much Commanders can say 'No!' to the powers that be and have that mean something very real in game. Plus, for those of us that are members of Anarchy factions and live in Anarchy systems...

...there are no police. It's up to us and our friends.