Illeagl Salvage and Rescue

[Jessa Doom]

Hi All.

After all this time since game release why is savage and certain cargo pickup still illegal Like i came across salvageable wreckage which turned out to be occupied escape pods and on pickup they became illegal why! you're not stealing them you're rescuing the occupants so they should not be illegal and there's a contradiction in the word salvageable salvageable means it can be salvaged it's unsalvage or already tagged salvage etc that's illegal.

If you're accepted and been assigned certain cargo pickup and you are returning it back to recipient it should be cleared at that station/planet if it's theirs yes illegal in the system you obtained the cargo but not in another system.

I think the pickup and salvage of certain cargo's be legit or request clearance via the com menu to return it back to owners at reduced cost and not acure fines anyway this savage issue should be rethinked and overhauled to be more fair and the only risk should come from attacks to steal it from you.

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

All this illegal salvage stuff is kinda annoying.

However, surface rescue is perfectly legal. Lol
Not sure about salvage, but on the surface, there is no one to scan you. Lol

I believe this is all being looked in to for 2.1. But don't quote me on that. Lol

 

[bamber]

Property can be lost, mislaid or abandoned

If its lost you leave it somewhere you might not expect to (ie you drop it in the park) in which case the person finding it has the biggest claim against all but the original owner if it can be proven

If its mislaid you leave it somewhere you might expect to leave it - if you had a meal in town and left your wallet on the table it has to be handed to the resteraunt owner to keep it for a reasonable amount of time

If its abandoned then its left in a condition where the true owner obviously doesn't want it any more and its then finders keepers

but its NOT always for instance dumpster diving for discarded food or goods would seem acceptable but most Councils will not allow you to go raking through Waste recycling bins and removed that cabinet to take home and refurbish

One thing I would pointy out is that there is no death in Elite, you shoot someone they end up back at the space station, the haven't abandoned the goods so they still have a claim on them. The only case this wouldn't be so is if someone jettison (abandoned) them which I think is the case in the game

 

[Sapyx]

I've said this before, in similar context.

Pieces of cargo "know" who their legitimate owner is - they've got unhackable RFID chips in them, or something like that. The cargo does not know, however, exactly how it ended up floating in space. It does not know if it's "real owner" is dead or still alive, and doesn't really care - for all it can tell, you're the villainous scum that blew up its previous owner and/or caused it to be ejected into space. If the cargo owner is not the same as the ship owner on which they reside, then the cargo flags itself as "stolen" and this fact can be picked up either at point of attempted sale or by a cargo scan.

"Abandoning" a cargo canister when you are the legitimate owner erases the RFID; such a canister is therefore "clean" and can be reclaimed by anyone.

It is possible to obtain a salvage licence (mission) for certain types of salvageable cargo and cargo collected under these circumstances is legal - even when you collect much more of it than the mission specifically asked for. Presumably in this case, the licence grants you a temporary permit to carry certain goods that do not belong to you. The cargo itself is presumably still screaming "Help! Help! I've been stolen!", but the licence is broadcasting "It's OK, officer, nothing illegal happening here. These aren't the droids you're looking for".

 

[stooger]

Mission which will let you scoop all cargo in space for xx time. You are paid xx cr for xx tons of salvaged items. Or just licences... you have xxx rank and you are friendly/allied with xxx faction so you can buy license to salvage - space garbage collector license.
Somthing like minning without asteroids. Maybe not very entertaining but it's always one more thing you can do if you want. "Job" like miner or trader.

 

[Alderius]

I get both sides of the argument about ownership and legality and where you get it etc etc. But from a game/design perspective, I don't understand it. If you want players to interact with this stuff, make it worthwhile..... right now it isn't worth the price to stop and pick it up ($3k for some salvage and escape pods), and the fact it's illegal means you have to go the extra step to smuggle it into a location with a black market. Why bother? Where is the incentive?
Maybe it was never designed to be worthwhile, just a bit of marketing fluff that sounds cool "rescue people, explore wreckage, earn credits...."

Meh!

Fly Dangerous!
CMDR Alderius

 

[Space Dandy]

Hi All.

After all this time since game release why is savage and certain cargo pickup still illegal Like i came across salvageable wreckage which turned out to be occupied escape pods and on pickup they became illegal why! you're not stealing them you're rescuing the occupants so they should not be illegal and there's a contradiction in the word salvageable salvageable means it can be salvaged it's unsalvage or already tagged salvage etc that's illegal.

If you're accepted and been assigned certain cargo pickup and you are returning it back to recipient it should be cleared at that station/planet if it's theirs yes illegal in the system you obtained the cargo but not in another system.

I think the pickup and salvage of certain cargo's be legit or request clearance via the com menu to return it back to owners at reduced cost and not acure fines anyway this savage issue should be rethinked and overhauled to be more fair and the only risk should come from attacks to steal it from you.

Salvage in this game is amateurishly done which is why all the illegal junk. FD need to redo this salvage system and make it more viable and less asinine and listen less to some of the mods in this forum on the subject.

There should be a RoW contact, at the same place you contact the black market, who does a simple check when you head into a station that then does a system wide check to see if the owners are still alive etc etc

 

[shadragon]

right now it isn't worth the price to stop and pick it up ($3k for some salvage and escape pods), and the fact it's illegal means you have to go the extra step to smuggle it into a location with a black market. Why bother? Where is the incentive?

Huh? 3K per ton is a handsome reward, more with a mission. That's dinner, a nice dinner, and a show, front row center, out with the wife, maybe the girlfriend, money.

Smuggle to a location with a black market, yes. It is stolen goods. Also known as free money.

 

[Jessa Doom]

Thanks all But to add to this why have salvage if it illegal it seems pointless though all salvage should be legal with the exception of illicit goods at certain systems.

When i first started to play this game i did a lot of salvage to boost my credits but found i was getting scanned buy every law ship and fined over and over more than the salvage was worth and then fined by the station so it became a waste of time to salvage.

Some of you have mentioned about ownership of salvage and though the owner is never killed and still own those goods do they go back to collect them have any of you and if goods are insured the owner has been paid for them so salvage then become recoverable through insurer warranty missions.

On another point has i said why if you are picking up an escape pod that is a rescue and not illegal you should be rewarded in rank for that system and if the pod had a pirate/baddie in it then they get handed in for credit reward.

So if the DEV's are insistent of salvage being illegal keep salvage to station missions only because they wasted time and coding to put something in a game that seems pointless and that part of the salvage should be scraped from the game and more effort put into the colouring of the cockpits and lasers, why all those orange lasers and white canons shots etc the Dev's should have given different colour to different powered weapons and why not.

Till the salvage is reformed i won't be picking any up unless it's mine.

 

[Garagiste]

Take a mission to get it, and it's legal. All you can eat.

 

[Adam Jay]

I see the point, but my guess is that when you are not the official rescue team or similar service (heard that you can do it as a mission), the game translates your rescue attempt as if you are trying to steal and sell the people to slavery or something

 

[tiger61378]

They need to add another contact to the menu..."Salvage operator" or "Search and Rescue". Then, when you find stuff floating around in wreckage out there, you can pick it up and deliver it to the Salvage/SAR guy and get paid for your trouble without having to hide from the cops. Its quite annoying in ALD space, actually...she shuts down every black market she can find, making it a nightmare to drag off to a different system while searching for a black market that hasn't closed.

 

[Space Dandy]

They need to add another contact to the menu..."Salvage operator" or "Search and Rescue". Then, when you find stuff floating around in wreckage out there, you can pick it up and deliver it to the Salvage/SAR guy and get paid for your trouble without having to hide from the cops. Its quite annoying in ALD space, actually...she shuts down every black market she can find, making it a nightmare to drag off to a different system while searching for a black market that hasn't closed.

That's what the RoW is. It's short for Receiver of Wreck, he's the "Salvage SAR guy", in reality it is not illegal to salvage stuff. It only becomes illegal if you do not declare it to the RoW.

FD need to implement this properly and nevermind the 1 year time limit they have in real life just like we don't wait 6 months to one year to have our big old huge ships replaced when we go BOOM or like how repairs are instant.

A mission should not be required period, only that you report to the RoW, just as it is not required for you to have a contract IRL.

 

[Alderius]

Huh? 3K per ton is a handsome reward, more with a mission. That's dinner, a nice dinner, and a show, front row center, out with the wife, maybe the girlfriend, money.

Smuggle to a location with a black market, yes. It is stolen goods. Also known as free money.

Hehe, that dinner/show comment made me laugh, have some rep! But $3k (in game.....) is a pittance. If you're going to gather it up using a limpet controller and collector limpets, you may as well mine and make the (relatively) big dollars. There have been a few CG's around collecting wreckage, as well as a few for escape pods, which did make it worth while for the CG reward. But as random pieces of flotsam floating around, seems to be just eye candy in the game.

Now, if wreckage had something random and cool like engine cores or weapons you could potentially fit, or jewels of high value, or people in escape pods like dignitaries that offered a reward...... then they would be worth stopping to investigate!

I've scoured them as part of the last pod CG, picked up data caches, personnel effects, black boxes etc but the value is not much. 30m of bounty hunting at the local nav beacon will pay 20x what you could find in the same time wreck hunting. But having said that, I don't have Horizons so I can't comment on what wreck hunting on planets is like. Can anyone comment on planet wrecks?

Cheers all, and fly Dangerous!
CMDR Alderius

 

[Alex Brentnall]

Hi,
Collecting salvage is illegal because some people like to sell that stuff to the black market for profit. Slaves are highly valued on many black markets for example... Police found the situation too chaotic to enforce as they couldn't tell who was a nice person helping salvage equipment and lives and who was a black marketeer so they developed permits instantly scan-able using their cargo scanners. The downside is you have to set out from a station with the intention of doing salvage.

Tl: dr - Accept missions for legal salvage.

Yes it could be a better system but it does work currently to a point and you can imagine how the lore would support the current situation as above..

 

[Yaffle]

I had an embarrassing fumble with an idea around this here - https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=218105

(slinks away after shameless self promotion)

 

[Sapyx]

There should, ideally, be a category of goods that should be legal to bring into a station, but illegal to take out of a station. Like escape pods. It should be "legal" for anyone to rescue them and hand them over to the authorities at the next station you land in - you should get a small reward and/or a big local faction reputation boost for doing so. But it should be illegal to acquire them in the station (via the black market or missions) and leave the station with them.

On a related note, people have also been asking for some way to "legally free slaves". In systems where slaves (or drugs, weapons etc) are illegal, there should be a mechanism to allow you to get rid of them without either selling them to the black market or illegally dumping them out the airlock while you're on the pad. If I found a gun or stash of drugs in the street, I wouldn't take it home and sell it on eBay - I'd hand them over to the police station. My character is a law-abiding citizen and all of the fines I've accrued have been for accidentally bringing illegal goods (usually those pesky illicit Rares) into a system; with no black market to dump the things at, I've sometimes been scanned and fined twice, once on the way in, and again on the way out again. I'd have much preferred to simply hand over the illicit goods to the cops.

Or even better, if you enter a station with illegal goods and they scan and fine you as you enter, they should confiscate the illegals off you then and there. What kind of IRL cops find drugs on you, write you a ticket, then let you carry on your merry way while still in possession of the drugs? Confiscation would at least solve the scanned-twice problem, as well as providing an added element of "risk vs reward" to those who prefer the smuggler lifestyle.

 

[Jessa Doom]

Hi Adam Jay No i'm not any rescue team or any other it's if we come across occupied escape pods we should be able to collect or rescue them without penalty.

 

[Jessa Doom]

Hi Sappx I'm with you on the illegal confiscation that's why this illegal salvage issue is so wrong in the real world all salvage is recoverable unless it's been tag by insurers and companies in game tagged by others first and insurers, station, or missions.

 

[Yaffle]

Hi Sappx I'm with you on the illegal confiscation that's why this illegal salvage issue is so wrong in the real world all salvage is recoverable unless it's been tag by insurers and companies in game tagged by others first and insurers, station, or missions.

Not quite, no. In the UK you should inform HM Receiver of Wreck who will make sure the 'finder' is suitably rewarded by the 'loser'. No need for an insurance company to tag it, property always has an owner.