Illeagl Salvage and Rescue

[Jessa Doom]

OK Yaffly that way sounds good.

Still this salvage as it is is so wrong.

 

[Alex Brentnall]

There should, ideally, be a category of goods that should be legal to bring into a station, but illegal to take out of a station. Like escape pods. It should be "legal" for anyone to rescue them and hand them over to the authorities at the next station you land in - you should get a small reward and/or a big local faction reputation boost for doing so. But it should be illegal to acquire them in the station (via the black market or missions) and leave the station with them.
On a related note, people have also been asking for some way to "legally free slaves". In systems where slaves (or drugs, weapons etc) are illegal, there should be a mechanism to allow you to get rid of them without either selling them to the black market or illegally dumping them out the airlock while you're on the pad. If I found a gun or stash of drugs in the street, I wouldn't take it home and sell it on eBay - I'd hand them over to the police station. My character is a law-abiding citizen and all of the fines I've accrued have been for accidentally bringing illegal goods (usually those pesky illicit Rares) into a system; with no black market to dump the things at, I've sometimes been scanned and fined twice, once on the way in, and again on the way out again. I'd have much preferred to simply hand over the illicit goods to the cops.
Or even better, if you enter a station with illegal goods and they scan and fine you as you enter, they should confiscate the illegals off you then and there. What kind of IRL cops find drugs on you, write you a ticket, then let you carry on your merry way while still in possession of the drugs? Confiscation would at least solve the scanned-twice problem, as well as providing an added element of "risk vs reward" to those who prefer the smuggler lifestyle.

Kinda works but if police stumble across a salvage sight to find 3 ships picking up survivors and materials how do they distinguish the upstanding citizens saving lives and the pesky scavs that will jump 1 system across to an Anarchy to sell them as slaves on the black market?

Although I believe there should be a "hand over cargo illegal" option as well as an "attempt to bribe" option along with the current "accept fine" option. Maybe give you the choice having to respond with a number in chat, 10 seconds no response = bounty instead of just a fine.

 

[Adam Jay]

Hi Adam Jay No i'm not any rescue team or any other it's if we come across occupied escape pods we should be able to collect or rescue them without penalty.

Sure I agree, you should be given choice if actually rescue the occupant or sell the pod on black market with appropriate consequences. Like in real life, if you pull the survivor out of sea, nobody gives a damn if you have some permit or license.

 

[Jessa Doom]

Yes Adam Jay That's what what happens in the real world you're saving a life legally no matter who it is and it could be one of your own factions members in the game Brownie points if so.

The way the Dev's have it, you are adrift at sea a boat comes along only to say "sorry mate haven't got a rescue or salvage licence bye" then watch it sail away or if they do rescue you and get back to port they all get arrested fined for doing so, I'd like to see them stranded with a few minutes of life only to go past and say can't help no licence when licenced rescue is hours away.

Licence or not as long as you tag/radio in the find the salvage is your's it only becomes illegal if already been tagged.

 

[Adam Jay]

agreed Jessa.

hopefully our complaints will be heard and summer update that is supposed to change mission concept will also do something about it

This and stupid pirates that want your limpets, that equals to higwaymen robbing gold diggers of their picks and shovels before they actually mine something!

 

[Jessa Doom]

Amen to that Adam.

 

[rrobes]

I haven't been on the game but for a couple of months but one of the game features that seems to be not worth playing is this cargo salvage. I don't care to smuggle it in, unless you have a recovery limpet, scooping in the cargo hold is fiddly, it must be transported to a black market and the ultimate payoff is next to nothing.

Why doesn't FD look at maritime law and right of salvage. This concept has been in existence since ancient times, where a person who has no pre-existing interest or involvement, acts as a volunteer and recovers cargo or rescues a ship and is renumerated based on the value of the recovered cargo or ship. The player who follows the rule and takes the cargo to port can set it to be declared salvage if scanned and paid for the effort. If a smuggler wishes to smuggle it, he can leave it set to undeclared and take their chances with the law. Declaring cargo or having cargo manifests are also old concepts.

These are set precedents that could be easily applied to make the game more realistic and playable.

And in regards to where FD's interests lie, maximizing profits/revenue or game improvement, time will tell. It would be nice if they struck a balance.

 

[Sandmann]

Hi All.

After all this time since game release why is savage and certain cargo pickup still illegal Like i came across salvageable wreckage which turned out to be occupied escape pods and on pickup they became illegal why! you're not stealing them you're rescuing the occupants so they should not be illegal and there's a contradiction in the word salvageable salvageable means it can be salvaged it's unsalvage or already tagged salvage etc that's illegal.

If you're accepted and been assigned certain cargo pickup and you are returning it back to recipient it should be cleared at that station/planet if it's theirs yes illegal in the system you obtained the cargo but not in another system.

I think the pickup and salvage of certain cargo's be legit or request clearance via the com menu to return it back to owners at reduced cost and not acure fines anyway this savage issue should be rethinked and overhauled to be more fair and the only risk should come from attacks to steal it from you.

Salvage is still illegal because you still didn't buy it and you still don't have a salvage permit, and anything you find and don't turn into the authorities is technically stolen. Escape pods are still illegal because you don't have an option to release them, the only option you have is to sell them to the black market where they presumably become either slaves or dog food. Escape pods specifically found as part of a mission are returned to their friends and are thus not illegal.

A big hole in the game is that there's not actually any PEOPLE in it so far. We're not actually people flying around in spaceships, we ARE the spaceships. Then we become the SRV when on a planet, but we're STILL not people. When we're docked we don't interact with NPC people, we talk to an NPC station or base. Similarly slaves and pod occupants aren't people, they're cargo canisters and are treated as cargo. That's why there's no-one walking around, that's why there's no passenger missions, prisoner transports, taxi services, and so on. It's why we can't get get out of the pilot's seat and walk around. All these things are promised to come "later", and hopefully they will. When that happens I suspect you'll then see the way the game treats pod occupants and slaves change from cargo into people. You'll see passenger ships like the Beluga and the Dolphin released, and passenger cabins with life support that take up internal ship space available as modules. (Game lore actually states that unlike regular slaves, imperial slaves must be carried in passenger cabins with life support and not in cargo canisters in suspension). You'll get complaints from passengers about various things to deal with, life support failures (or turning off the life support module, or having it deactivate coz you enabled weapons and your power supply sucks) will convert passengers into "compost", and so on. FDev have a history of not releasing new aspects of the game piecemeal, they like to do it as an organised planned "block" of releases (same as they're doing planetary stuff as the horizons "block"). I wouldn't be surprised if this happens as the next "season" (probably called "Elite Dangerous: People" or "Elite Dangerous: Travellers" or something similar), as having a populated galaxy with real people would be a required part for believably landing on atmospheric, civilised planets with cities and so on in the following season. It'd also be a lot easier to do the "people" bit without huge cities and atmospheric planets, as it's a lot easier to do in small contained spaces like ships, stations, bases, and SRV's.

Is it a stupid system? Yes. Should there be salvage rights and the ability to free slaves & escape pod occupants by now? Yes. Should these things automatically become legal in the absence of these systems? No. Remember that in real world places & times where slavery is/was legal it's actually ILLEGAL to assist a slave to escape lawful slavery. To make these things legal there has to be the support systems to go along with them - there has to be a legal & illegal way to dispose of salvage, slaves, and rescued people... currently there's no such mechanisms in place.

 

[Jessa Doom]

Hi rrobes

I agree my point exactly they should look at maritime law and right of salvage as the game stands it not worth salvage and those who want to pick it up and become wanted fine i'll get more credits for destroying a ship than for it cargo and hume loses their ship ends up paying a lot to replace their new ships upgrades.

 

[Jessa Doom]

Hi Sandmann.

I have never seen these salvage permits anywhere for sale unless i've missed something and as i've said with escape pods you are rescuing the occupants not stealing them so when did it become illegal to save a life Ho! yes when this game started.

If those want to make a living out of salvage either with a permit or not do so and earn your credits slowly please do so, become wanted get fines lose your ship when say is it worth it.

 

[Sandmann]

Hi Sandmann.

I have never seen these salvage permits anywhere for sale unless i've missed something and as i've said with escape pods you are rescuing the occupants not stealing them so when did it become illegal to save a life Ho! yes when this game started.

You've misunderstood. There aren't any salvage permits for sale. There should be, but no. Without a salvage permit you're not salvaging, you are stealing, because anything floating around abandoned is not yours, because you didn't pay for it and the owner didn't gift it to you.

With escape pods, what are you actually DOING with them once you've rescued them? As far as I'm aware the ONLY way to dispose of an escape pod (except those assigned to you in a mission) is by selling it on the black market. You've seen those "One of our pilots is missing" missions? So far that is the ONLY time you can legally rescue them, because it's the only time it doesn't end in the black market. Otherwise you are performing an unauthorised rescue which ends up with you selling the occupant for illegal purposes.

 

[Jessa Doom]

Hi Sandmann

Understand on permits so why do so many player say so much about them and the DEV's do nothing.

Has for the escape pod yes i know what you are saying but this shouldn't be as i said earlier we take them back to get rep or rank increase and again the DEV's do nothing.

Just as a thought if we were to come across food containers in a system that's starving no matter hume owned them in the first place and we deliver them we should trade and get paid normanly without penalty after all the original owner failed the job even if they got jump on and it was not their fault they should have tried to get away and it's their loss.

Anyway this salvage system is flawed and uneconomical and blackmarket are far too scarce and salvage is what it is salvage and if you shoot and destroy another to get their goods then it becomes illegal and that is where the current system lies.

Heres another thought if i steal from you that illegal but if i find you stuff and return it that's rewardable and there's been a saying for ages "Finders Keepers".

Till this salvage system is overhauled i won't be collecting any it's not worth it.

 

[Sandmann]

Understand on permits so why do so many player say so much about them and the DEV's do nothing.

Well, that would be because they don't work to our timetable, and they don't do stuff just coz we want it.

Anyway this salvage system is flawed and uneconomical and blackmarket are far too scarce and salvage is what it is salvage and if you shoot and destroy another to get their goods then it becomes illegal and that is where the current system lies.

If you find something abandoned/lost and you have salvage rights then it is salvage.
That's legal.
If you find something abandoned/lost and you do NOT have salvage rights then it is theft.
That is illegal.
If you shoot someone and take their stuff that's murder and theft.
That is also illegal.
Right now the game doesn't have any salvage rights. Maybe later. Maybe not.

Heres another thought if i steal from you that illegal but if i find you stuff and return it that's rewardable and there's been a saying for ages "Finders Keepers".

Yeah.... riiight. You know that "finders, keepers" has no legal basis, right? Sorry, but "I found it" doesn't extinguish title.

Till this salvage system is overhauled i won't be collecting any it's not worth it.

That is completely up to you, I don't think FDev are relying on you to tidy up their messy galaxy. Black markets are easy to find - hell they are even listed in the system maps! And docking at stations without getting scanned is child's play so I'll happilly pick up stuff that's lieing around if I have the cargo space - it's free money - but I won't go out of my way for it.

 

[Watcher]

Being illegal to salvage within a system in the bubble probably makes sense since there are (or should be) local authorities to pick this stuff up.
The salvage contracts make some sense too but it would perhaps be better if that was tied to some specific items rather than anything of the appropriate type - I appreciate this is harder to do but it would be nice for the future.
Likewise it would be nice to get more general and ongoing salvage permits within a system if you have the right rep with the local authorities and aren't wanted - going wanted would probably cancel or at least suspend the permit until you've tidied things up rep wise.
Perhaps we will see this one day, perhaps not..

 

[ShimEnki]

It would be easy enough to code it in a way that allowed this cargo and life pods to be deposited to the controlling port for some reward If and only if you are not on the wanted list.

Even goofy friendly fire wherein you are target locked onto another ship and some ship flies thru your path you get fines, thus, theres no way in ED hell that you could obtain this cargo through intelligently designed illegal means. That is, if you are unwanted and want to be helpful to the local economy and its citizens and return their family members and needed goods, you should be able to.

 

[Ouberos]

I'm out of the bubble, returning (v slowly) from a little holiday around the local spiral arms. As I draw closer to the bubble I am seeing more and more human detritus cluttering up systems in the form of "salvageable wreckage" contacts (mostly fuel scooping accidents by their locations) and I have now collected a handful of other people's Data, both large and small.

I can understand why cargo could be a grey area but surely the Data cache collected by those poor souls are adding to human knowledge and I shouldn't be penalized for collecting them. If anything I should receive a commendation for having the courage and resourcefulness to drop into a suspect signal so close to a Stellar body in a lightly armed Asp.

I just hope carrying them doesn't increase the incidents of NPC interdiction when I eventually enter the bubble.

 

[Jessa Doom]

Thanks all for your responses to this topic, yes i can see both sides to this issue and yes there is an issue with salvage no matter how players go about it.

I'm not saying that the ED-DEV's change it because i don't like it it's not that it that a majority of players have issue with salvage and if rescuing a lifeform in a escape pod forces you to sell them for slavery in a system that by all account should have abolished slavery that wrong and not having a salvage licence/permit incorporated in the game to make it more playable even if it's more risky with certain cargo that to is wrong.