I'm concerned – the direction of the game.

So I'd like to open up a discussion to the wider community with reference to a growing concern I have for a direction the game is possibly going to take.

In essence this relates to a little bit to how some perceive griefing and a bias towards PvE at the expense of player adversity which is a popular play-style present in many online games. I'm not here to talk about griefing which has been discussed at huge length by the community as a whole. I'd like to discuss the PvE and PvP element of the game.

Now as background to this situation I'd like to point out that the game is going to be rather unique in allowing players to isolate themselves from others, be it single-player mode, single-player online and private-online groups and Iron-Man. Its also going to be possible for a player to ignore any other player which will have the result of it being highly unlikely they would be placed in the same instance together.

Whilst I have some reservations about this, partly because I think its going to mean we don't see many other players in the game, I do acknowledge that its important for a good number of people who don't particularly enjoy conflict or encounters with other players but these systems will certainly offer a player the chance to simply avoid anyone they don't wish to have contact with, even to the extreme of not seeing anyone but a close bunch of friends, or playing entirely on their own. There is also the option to switch between these groups at will at pretty much any time in the game.

Its also worth remembering that should a player choose to perform a criminal act there are in game consequences for these actions and whilst I think its a bit over the top the result of this is that this also is going to act as a deterrent for certain behaviours.

So the 'All-Group' is the only presently described place for those to play who want to fully experience encountering other players. One of the reasons I backed Elite Dangerous was because of multi-player; and was rather looking forward to encountering other players either as adversaries or as allies. I find that many single-player games don't come close to the experience one can find in an online game where we engage with other players and one of the strengths of a sandbox game is that the players themselves create their own content by their actions which enriches what there is to do in game beyond what scripted or defined stories the developers themselves create; this of course helps to increase the longevity of the experience.

However, its recently come to my attention that living in the 'All-Group' is likely not going to be even a shadow of the experience I thought it could offer. I am now hearing that there are possibly further moves are a foot to reduce these opportunities that I and so many other players of the game were looking forward to. So in addition to all the game systems I've mentioned there is now a possibility that even in the all-group we might not be allowed to see who other players are; imagine if you will , in the extreme, not being able to identify a player from an NPC, a player being able to hide their status as a real person from the entire game or having to scan every single NPC to establish who is a player and who is not.

I certainly do understand that others might not want to be 'hassled' by other players but for those who do enjoy encountering others I feel we are going to not going to have those experiences because the game design seems intent on further catering to those who already have many many ways of finding a good portion of the things they want from ED. I'd like to see the game bustling with players with the opportunity to make allies and enemies and in my view the huge bias towards PvE is going to seriously undermine the gameplay which could negatively effect how the game is received by the larger gaming community and a poor performance in sales.

So a long post and thanks for taking the time for reading it. I'd really like to hear your thoughts..:)
 
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If this is a living world say your in that world you can't tell the difference between two people. there both people.

you can't expect a massive dot this person is a player feel free to kill them, you should be picking off little things you can as a criminal, not just targetting players, or not targetting them etc.
 
However, its recently come to my attention that living in the 'All-Group' is likely not going to be even a shadow of the experience I thought it could offer. I am now hearing that there are possibly further moves are a foot to reduce these opportunities that I and so many other players of the game were looking forward to. So in addition to all the game systems I've mentioned there is now a possibility that even in the all-group we might not be allowed to see who other players are; imagine if you will , in the extreme, not being able to identify a player from an NPC, a player being able to hide their status as a real person from the entire game or having to scan every single NPC to establish who is a player and who is not.

Source?
 
This depends on your point of view. The huge bias (if there is one) towards PvE for me is a major bonus.

Being able to play solo or in groups allows people who don't want to be involved in PvP to have that choice. If you want to fly around blowing up other players then you can join those like minded people in your own parallel universe :)
 
imagine if you will , in the extreme, not being able to identify a player from an NPC, a player being able to hide their status as a real person from the entire game or having to scan every single NPC to establish who is a player and who is not.
Yup, great isn't it. No silly immersion destroying flashing blue light, players making decisions on the basis of what makes sense in-game, rather than just looking for a PC they can attack.
 
I'll say one thing - as a solo online player, this would be one feature that might just tempt me into the All group.

And to balance that, I've decided to move out of the all group to solo online because it looks likely to be implemented (at least partially, vie the opt-in ident service).
 

Yaffle

Volunteer Moderator
imagine if you will , in the extreme, not being able to identify a player from an NPC, a player being able to hide their status as a real person from the entire game or having to scan every single NPC to establish who is a player and who is not.

So a long post and thanks for taking the time for reading it. I'd really like to hear your thoughts..:)

<nods with Cody>

I think it should be unobvious whether I am dealing with a human or an AI, it adds to my game to not know. I'm also unsure why it's so important to know who on your scanner is a PC or NPC? I can't quite see why I need to know.

If I'm after a bit of PvP action I guess I'd need to know, but I like the idea of surprise, so you go and attack a random, who turns out to be Commander Suffler. Could be fun.
 

Despite what Cosmos says, this is far from new.

There was a poll in the DDF on the subject of whether players should be identified as PCs by the game to other players. FD have, as seems to be their wont these days, failed to comment on the results of the poll, or on what they intend to introduce.

However, the options that were offered varied from:

immediate identification as soon as the ship resolves (in the alpha we can immediately identify PCs from NPC by NPCs being solid squares or triangles, and PCs being open squares or triangles)

Find out by various levels of scanning

Only identify those players who opt in

to

Never identify

Around 45% went for the opt in option, with just under 20% wanting to never be told, and the rest wanting various levels of always being told
 
I'm one of those odd PvEers who enjoys PvP providing that the PvP experience isn't relegated to griefing. EVE to me is a great example of what I don't want Elite to become. While I somewhat like the constant feeling of danger, I can't stand station baiting, gate and other ganking etc.

So, providing Frontier will include real and meaningful deterrents to griefing and piracy (big bounties, swift police action etc.) I'll definitely muck around in PvP land. I just don't want to have to live in fear from consta-ganking a la EVE. If that's the case, I'll stick with PvE. And if I stick to PvE for a while, I'll ultimately quit the game as I'm not looking for a single player game.

I need/want the environment to feel alive - I NEED to see other players flying around, not just NPCs. I find single player PvE experiences to be quite depressing and solitary. I really enjoy multiplayer PvE or (largely) grief-free PvP. I think the latter is absolutely achievable with the right anti-griefing tactics.

Edit: based on what I've seen David B say - I think he, and the broader development team, absolutely get this. Much more so than CCP and EVE - where they openly embrace and tolerate practically limitless griefing.
 
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I think it should be unobvious whether I am dealing with a human or an AI, it adds to my game to not know. I'm also unsure why it's so important to know who on your scanner is a PC or NPC? I can't quite see why I need to know.
He wants to fight them. Whether or not they want to play that way - hence the issue.
 
If you cannot tell the difference between an NPC and a real-life player

  1. I would be seriously impressed with Frontier's AI
  2. How in the heck would that affect your gameplay?

Actually, not quite knowing if it was a real person or an AI is pretty awesome, I doubt they could pull it off, but incredible if they could.

Regardless you seem to be missing the point, DB has said MANY times they are making the game THEY want to play and are inviting you along for the ride.
 
Cosmos, please clarify what do you mean about "all open" being what do you meant? So far I have seen no indication of that, so please enlighten me.

Edit: nevermind, read whole post. Well, I personally like that it is not possible to identify players right after just meeting them. Opting in makes sense in both gameplay and in-game explanation POV. I guess you wanted chase human pilots only in MP. I think that would be very shallow and would grow pretty boring pretty quick. Highly likely I will play full MP with id enabled...but I really like idea of not being possible to make it right after first scan or radar.

Sandro is proponent of not identifying players, so I guess FD will go with opt-in route. This could minimize risk of directed griefing too.
 
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It sounds as if you are making a distinction between PvP and PvE which I don't think is really there. When playing mutliplayer online, you're going to be limited to whatever the instance limit is for real people (32 I think has been mentioned) and the rest will be made up of NPCs.

I really don't want to see a Cobra Mk3 zipping around the cosmos with the handle xxCODL33tMasterxx above it. Nothing should be present to immediately identify human players, and arguably even when scanning, you shouldn't be able to make the distinction too easily.
 
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