I'm curious, how is a PVP Bounty Hunter meant to counter a Python loaded up on shield cells?

[Cmdr Kurnek]

Vultures at least, have their power management downsides. Has anyone ever managed it? I haven't tried myself, but it does seem that the fight will only last as long as the python wants it to, before, if losing, they jump away with shield cells to spare. and getting them to that point seems to require a python or anaconda of your own, which then precludes hunting anything smaller, as it will simply outrun you. Is the FDL or Clipper capable of it?

Also, I'm aware they have been nerfed already. I'm not so much calling for a python nerf as a shield cell balance pass, and for internal modules like the power plant to be affected by armour...

 

[popuptoaster]

Follow him and keep on him with some friends, your shields will recharge a lot faster than his do once his are down so have wing mates waiting in super cruise to pull him back into normal space if he runs towards a station and if he jumps to another system scan his wake, relay that info to your friends and all get after him again in the new system.

There is no reason why a small ship should be able to take down a big one, but lots of small ships continually harassing a bad guy has lots of game play possibilities.

 

[Auditore]

Like you said, it's not a problem with a specific ship (and the Python was over-nerfed to begin with) but with Shield Cells. I'd rather they removed them all-together but since I can't see that happening, limiting them to one per ship is the next best thing IMO.

 

[LeetNoob]

I understand that shield cells might need a rethink, but a Python costs 10 times the cost of a Vulture, it should be a better ship.

 

[Alexander the Grape]

I understand that shield cells might need a rethink, but a Python costs 10 times the cost of a Vulture, it should be a better ship.

Regardless of money=good which is lazy game design and bad for elite overall, the Python is a cargo freighter with combat capabilities. It should be inferior to a dedicated combat craft like a Vulture or FDL.

OP, I find great success in getting down the shields of PVP ships loaded with cells like pythons and anacondas by using a Plasma Accelerator and a Pulse laser on my vulture

The pulse drains their shields and lulls them into a false send of security and right before their cell activates the Plasma bursts it down in one or two shots

 

[Dash]

My Python has shield boosters, and probably had cells at the time too. I got ripped apart by a human Cobra... well, three of them.

It might be slightly different if turrets are working now, but generally, the game is centred around 1v1 combat - you cannot track multiple targets simultaneously, bigger ships can only take on multiple bandits because they're tougher to take down - it's still just a queuing mechanism, shoot one and hope you're still alive to shoot the next.

 

[Schattenbogen]

Like you said, it's not a problem with a specific ship (and the Python was over-nerfed to begin with) but with Shield Cells. I'd rather they removed them all-together but since I can't see that happening, limiting them to one per ship is the next best thing IMO.

Or it is a problem cause you can over-specialize a ship for every function without cost.

 

[Deleted member 38366]

--- Deleted ---

 

[who?]

Regardless of money=good which is lazy game design and bad for elite overall

It's not lazy game design, imagine what the game would be like without it. If a cheap Sidewinder could take down expensive Pythons, if a cheap Eagle could haul as much cargo as an expensive Anaconda..

Better, more expensive ships are probably the key reason to play the game, they provide a sense of progress and improvement. I'm not sure Elite would be worth playing without that.

 

[LeetNoob]

Regardless of money=good which is lazy game design and bad for elite overall, the Python is a cargo freighter with combat capabilities. It should be inferior to a dedicated combat craft like a Vulture or FDL.

OP, I find great success in getting down the shields of PVP ships loaded with cells like pythons and anacondas by using a Plasma Accelerator and a Pulse laser on my vulture

The pulse drains their shields and lulls them into a false send of security and right before their cell activates the Plasma bursts it down in one or two shots

Explain how better ships and equipment costing more is a lazy game design? That statement makes no sense.
I understand specialist ships should be better at combat than multi-role ships. But the difference in price to a fully loaded Python I would expect them to be very hard to kill. The Python turns like the titanic, so that it the Vultures advantage as a smaller ship.

 

[DaveB]

Wing up with 3 others, make sure at least two of you have both a wake scanner and an interdictor. The other two just need to be configured as heavyweight brawlers with high anti-shield alpha.

You will need to coordinate. Using voice comms will be essential. One of you interdicts the target and two others immediately nav-lock to you and stay close. The one who also has a wake-scanner and interdictor stays close but does NOT either nav-lock or drop with the rest of you, stays in SC as your backup. The three of you that dropped keep up constant beam fire on him, if he's focusing on one of you that one goes defensive, 4 pips to shields and concentrates on evasion while the other two pound him, if his focus shifts, the one evading turns back into the fight and his new target goes defensive. The guy in SC stays off the mic while this is happening so that the three in the fight can coordinate their tactics, with the two on the offensive letting the guy flying defensively know when the targets focus shifts so he can get back into the fight quicker. Keep it up until the target runs. If he jumps to a new system, scan the wake and report his destination, your buddy in SC is off after him at once with the rest of you following as fast as you can. If he jumps to SC, your buddy needs to get an interdictor on him before he can either emergency drop or jump to another system. Either way, your two brawlers should now nav-lock to your backup that was waiting in SC. He has just become the primary interdictor and the other interdictor-equipped ship is now the backup and will be hanging around in SC.

Keep this up and you can wear down anyone, no matter how many SCBs he has or how far and fast he runs. The trick is to set it up so that he can't run faster than you can hunt. Once he realizes he is being relentlessly hunted and there's always going to be a backup waiting in SC to nail him again he only has a few choices - get better at evasion, jump somewhere you can't follow because of jump ranges or system permits, make a fight of it hoping to tempt you into calling in your buddy from SC to help (don't do this, because as soon as you do he's gone) and if that fails fight to the death.. or he can logoffski if he's got a yellow streak. One thing you can guarantee is that by the end of it he's going to be sweating bullets. By the time it's over, whether he successfully escapes, does enough damage to make you break off or dies you'll probably have given him many minutes of the most intense PvP he'll ever has had. You just have to be well enough coordinated that every single time he activates his FSD somebody is on him before he can manage to activate it again and be elsewhere. If he manages to target a destination and activate his FSD twice in a row, you've lost him.

 

[Farmboy]

what popuptoaster said. With shields no longer insta-healing in SC, you can wear even a python full of SCB down, but you'll need to be tenacious and track the target across into SC and possibly into other systems. Only if they can outjump you should they be able to easily lose you, and yes likely you'll need a comparable ship, or a well organised wing.

 

[Vasious]

Follow him and keep on him with some friends, your shields will recharge a lot faster than his do once his are down so have wing mates waiting in super cruise to pull him back into normal space if he runs towards a station and if he jumps to another system scan his wake, relay that info to your friends and all get after him again in the new system.

There is no reason why a small ship should be able to take down a big one, but lots of small ships continually harassing a bad guy has lots of game play possibilities.

I agree, the only fair fight is the one you haven't planned correctly.

 

[CMDR i Tetsuo]

You need to form a wing, specifically one setup for inflicting maximum shield damage, Shield Cells are good but they can be cracked using brute force.
Maybe sign up for the Power that offers those laser weapons that do increased shield damage, have two of the wing equipped with those and the other two with big kinetic damage to follow up?
-
Isn't the fun in the challenge? Finding out exactly how to defeat something everyone else presumes invincible? You'll be famous

 

[LeetNoob]

Or you could just fight me, I have a Python but you’d probably win.

 

[Troa Barton]

Vultures at least, have their power management downsides. Has anyone ever managed it? I haven't tried myself, but it does seem that the fight will only last as long as the python wants it to, before, if losing, they jump away with shield cells to spare. and getting them to that point seems to require a python or anaconda of your own, which then precludes hunting anything smaller, as it will simply outrun you. Is the FDL or Clipper capable of it?

Also, I'm aware they have been nerfed already. I'm not so much calling for a python nerf as a shield cell balance pass, and for internal modules like the power plant to be affected by armour...

Not really that big of an issue, a high alpha burst followed by a ram can down most pythons shields. If it doesn't the quicker turning FDL can punch it with another alpha strike before the cell banks finish charging.

making the big ships capable of being so defensive is a good thing. It facilitates wings to form to take them down and wings of their own to defend against such threats. It also gives a reason to buy more expensive ships, otherwise all player bounty hunters would use vultures and nothing else.

If if anything needs a balance pass its armor and chaff. Armor does nothing to protect your powerplant or any other modules. It should be a flat percentage of damage reduction to anything not exposed proportional to cost. Thrusters should only be able to be hit from behind and weapons should actually be a tactical target to take out.

x2 and even x3 chaff setups are just exploitive as they completely nullify gimbaled and turreted weapons which already do less damage at all ranges while costing more.

as far as limiting the use of redundant cell banks I would argue that having more modules worth putting in their place would be the best direction to go. Hull reinforcement packages are an example of this. If armor was worth the weight and cost they would be better than shields because let's face it all that weight effects your ship in a lot of ways and the cost is astronomical.
another example are things like mass inhibitors, or additional gyros to make your ship turn faster, supplemental power plants to run offensive and defensive setups. They could even take a page out of mechwarrior online's book and have mass reduction modules that take up internal slots.

there is more than one way to beat around a bush.

 

[Cmdr Kurnek]

Not really that big of an issue, a high alpha burst followed by a ram can down most pythons shields. If it doesn't the quicker turning FDL can punch it with another alpha strike before the cell banks finish charging.

making the big ships capable of being so defensive is a good thing. It facilitates wings to form to take them down and wings of their own to defend against such threats. It also gives a reason to buy more expensive ships, otherwise all player bounty hunters would use vultures and nothing else.

If if anything needs a balance pass its armor and chaff. Armor does nothing to protect your powerplant or any other modules. It should be a flat percentage of damage reduction to anything not exposed proportional to cost. Thrusters should only be able to be hit from behind and weapons should actually be a tactical target to take out.

x2 and even x3 chaff setups are just exploitive as they completely nullify gimbaled and turreted weapons which already do less damage at all ranges while costing more.

as far as limiting the use of redundant cell banks I would argue that having more modules worth putting in their place would be the best direction to go. Hull reinforcement packages are an example of this. If armor was worth the weight and cost they would be better than shields because let's face it all that weight effects your ship in a lot of ways and the cost is astronomical.
another example are things like mass inhibitors, or additional gyros to make your ship turn faster, supplemental power plants to run offensive and defensive setups. They could even take a page out of mechwarrior online's book and have mass reduction modules that take up internal slots.

there is more than one way to beat around a bush.

I did actually mention Armour needing to affect internal hardpoints like the power plant, I think if this issue were dealt with (along with slow shield recharge even without boosters) shield cells could be safely balanced without screwing players in bigger ships.

 

[Muzz UK]

Another shield cells need nerfing thread :-D couldn't agree more big ships need less cells or more cooldown.... or maybe give the smaller ships a way to counter them!

 

[Renegade Roach]

Regardless of money=good which is lazy game design and bad for elite overall, the Python is a cargo freighter with combat capabilities. It should be inferior to a dedicated combat craft like a Vulture or FDL.

Please define 'inferior'. Both the Vulture and the FDL have certain advantages over the Python, which in turn has its own advantages and disadvantages. Are you sure your thinking on this isn't just lazy?

 

[I and I Redeye]

I'm not sure if the Vulture is capable of taking a python. Maybe there is some issue that limits it. I don't actually fly one.
I will say this tho, I can just about get the shields down on a python that has SCB and boosters with my Viper. This in in PvP.

I can't finish the job cos I use canons and wouldn't have enough ammo unless I can get lucky with the power plant but I've never had a fight last that long.
It's usually end of fight when they get close to shields down.
I've had 2 duels and one proper fight. The duels ended at shields down and the other left when his shields were close to collapse.

I can understand a pilot will bail when he has a 100mil ship to look after. I don't need to, my ship is worth 4/5 mil so I continue to fight when my are shields down.
I reckon with MC's, over time and a few interdictions, it might be possible to take it out.