I'm starting to feel really guilty for reccomending this to my friends!!

SS_KONIG · Nov 25, 2014

Just feel i need to say that i recomended this game to my best friends & my brother we have pledged or bought into the beta and spent over £400 between us, the plan was to team up & fly together.
If we got into trouble we were going to assist each other in game & be each others wing men, this is currently impossible because most fights start from being interdicted.
How the heck are we supposed to fly to each others aid?????
Where is the multiplayer functionality?
This is not a multiplayer game as far as i can see!
I'm starting to wish i had not reccomended it because i'm permenantly having to make excuses to my buddies for the poor multyplayer functionality.

Sorry if i have upset any die hards but it has to be said i'm totally gutted atm

ED might as well scrap the mmo idea & go for Solo offline if it carries on like this because its unplayable atm for co-op.

Cheers Konig

C Wusher · Nov 25, 2014

SS_KONIG said:
Where is the multiplayer functionality?
This is not a multiplayer game as far as i can see!

But DB said ...

xyphic · Nov 25, 2014

Let's see if coming at this problem from the other end helps at all. Let's start from the bottom up and work out how you'd like to play the game, then see what barriers to that the game puts in your way. I'll need you to answer these questions (and I'm not being facetious at all, I want Frontier to be able to see how its users expect to be able to play in multiplayer and why they can't do that).

Questions:

Do you and your friends plan to travel together?
- If yes, how do you envisage that working?
- If no, how far apart do you see yourselves being? (Same system or many jumps apart?)
Interdiction is and always was a thing in the Elite universe. Clearly this is how a lot of fights are going to start.
- How would you intend to call for help from your friends? (Assuming they're not travelling with you)
- How would you expect them to be able to target you?
- How long would you expect it to take for them to turn up to assist?
- If your friends weren't nearby, what would you do?
Would you expect to be able to chat with them in-game if they're outside of the system?
- If so, how would you expect that to work?
- Would you expect to be able to voice chat or just text?
Let's assume your friends are out-of-system, some tens of Light Years away.
- How would you expect to arrange to meet your friends?
- How would you expect to be able to find and target them?
- How would you expect to plot a course to meet them?
Finally, an open-ended question. What barriers does the game put in your way that make the game's multiplayer feel deficient to you and your friends?
- How would you like to see those things improved?
- If you knew those improvements were coming post-release, would you stick with the game until they come?

foxpur · Nov 25, 2014

The game is limited by fuel, so that has always been the case. Realistic planning within a known issue. Take a ship being sent to the middle east, it will take several days even at top speed. Same issue, if you 2 want to play together you have to limit travel distances to reasonable distances, even account to fuel scoops. The multi-jump maps we DON'T have yet will be extremely useful in this.

Dinbar · Nov 25, 2014

I would not feel guilty, its an amazing game and the multiplayer mechanics will get there I'm sure.

If on the other hand they cant see what a Gem this game is and/or the potential it has then maybe its not the game for them.

Either way, we are all beings of free will. So dont feel guilty.

Sacman · Nov 25, 2014

The problem is that you have to be in an instance ... interdiction is just another word for 'level loading' / creating the instance.
When you get interdicted successfully you are loading a 'level' with your enemy ... and to support each other all your friends have to load the same level, and that does not work as expected.

ED is full of such 'loading/instancing' mechanisms:
- Hyperjump
- Supercruise
- USS
- Interdictions

They all represent artificial seam transitions to fake a 'seamless' coherent space ... and cause a lot of problems and discussion.

catanonia · Nov 25, 2014

Elite has never been a coop game and Ed is no different. The problem is that at the première the demo given was a coop demo and some of the marketing has been as such too, which when you look at it is a misrepresentation of what ED actually is 90% of the time.

foxpur · Nov 25, 2014

To clarify... MMO doesn't mean co-op

Chazzie · Nov 25, 2014

SS_KONIG said:
Just feel i need to say that i recomended this game to my best friends & my brother we have pledged or bought into the beta and spent over £400 between us, the plan was to team up & fly together.
If we got into trouble we were going to assist each other in game & be each others wing men, this is currently impossible because most fights start from being interdicted.
How the heck are we supposed to fly to each others aid?????
Where is the multiplayer functionality?
This is not a multiplayer game as far as i can see!
I'm starting to wish i had not reccomended it because i'm permenantly having to make excuses to my buddies for the poor multyplayer functionality.

Sorry if i have upset any die hards but it has to be said i'm totally gutted atm

ED might as well scrap the mmo idea & go for Solo offline if it carries on like this because its unplayable atm for co-op.

Cheers Konig

I don't think you need to feel bad about recommending this game to others just yet.
Try to remember that this is not the finished product and more multiplayer features are going to be added, I realise a lot of people are getting frustrated by the lack of multiplayer options (just take a look at the forums) but I honestly think you need to give Frontier a little more time to deliver.

Tyr07 · Nov 25, 2014

catanonia said:
Elite has never been a coop game and Ed is no different. The problem is that at the première the demo given was a coop demo and some of the marketing has been as such too, which when you look at it is a misrepresentation of what ED actually is 90% of the time.

You're going to have to help me with this one. If ED - is not a co-op game. As in, you don't work with other players. And if, ED, although has pvp, has been said isn't just a 'PVP' game. Yet it's an 'Online' game. Sounds more like it's a 'Single player DRM game'.

If I can't play with my friends in some form, can only shoot the odd person in an instance but otherwise have a single player existence and experience, then why would I bother with a game that requires me to be online? I'm hoping this is part of the development plan to make happen but, if the only purpose of being online is the odd time you run into a player to shoot...

Hawkmoon · Nov 25, 2014

Tyr07 said:
You're going to have to help me with this one. If ED - is not a co-op game. As in, you don't work with other players. And if, ED, although has pvp, has been said isn't just a 'PVP' game. Yet it's an 'Online' game. Sounds more like it's a 'Single player DRM game'.

If I can't play with my friends in some form, can only shoot the odd person in an instance but otherwise have a single player existence and experience, then why would I bother with a game that requires me to be online? I'm hoping this is part of the development plan to make happen but, if the only purpose of being online is the odd time you run into a player to shoot...

DRM has nothing to do with being on line or off line Windows has lots or DRM but can be used on or off line ant any time. ED has to be online for the background sim to work and you will see more and more of that as time goes by. For people that want to play as a team there is lots coming down the pipe, such as being able to group jump so when one gets interdicted you will all drop out (i assume), so one of you could be in a transport full of gold and the others could be escorts. The game is very much a single player experience at heart with some multi player features, also bear in mind that once we get the full galaxy and people have been playing for a few months we are going to start getting very spread out and then I think it will get quiet exciting to meet another player but also quite tense wondering what their intentions are.

xyphic · Nov 25, 2014

Tyr07 said:
You're going to have to help me with this one. If ED - is not a co-op game. As in, you don't work with other players. And if, ED, although has pvp, has been said isn't just a 'PVP' game. Yet it's an 'Online' game. Sounds more like it's a 'Single player DRM game'.

If I can't play with my friends in some form, can only shoot the odd person in an instance but otherwise have a single player existence and experience, then why would I bother with a game that requires me to be online? I'm hoping this is part of the development plan to make happen but, if the only purpose of being online is the odd time you run into a player to shoot...

The purpose of being online is that you get the dynamic updates to the galaxy. Player actions (trades, piracy, bounty hunting, etc.) should have an effect on what you see in game and it should be more than just the occasional news feed item. There should be large events that are influenced by player actions, such as wars. Whether a capital ship attack is successfully repelled should have an impact on whether a battle is won or lost. Whether a battle is won or lost should have an impact on whether the war is won or lost. If a planet goes into famine, player philanthropy should play a part in whether they survive or fail.

All this stuff should give us a dynamic, diverse and interesting galaxy. The question is whether the background simulation can achieve it, and whether it's actually active (there's little evidence either way). My feeling is that Frontier are saving a lot of the background stuff for release, notably the underlying story which looks likely to be something like an Imperial power struggle which will lead to instability and possibly all-out war with the Federation.

IMO there's a place for the social side. Some of the more exciting prospects involve being grouped up as part of a wing or alliance. Going exploring as a group, taking on combat bonds (e.g. the demo we saw on the live stream), etc. If Frontier are serious about providing that sort of experience (and it seems as if they are, given they keep pushing it), they need to provide the tools to facilitate it, not force the player to find ways to do that themselves. Hence my questions to the OP, who clearly wants to play the game socially.

Tyr07 · Nov 25, 2014

I'll take a stab at this.

xyphic said:
Let's see if coming at this problem from the other end helps at all. Let's start from the bottom up and work out how you'd like to play the game, then see what barriers to that the game puts in your way. I'll need you to answer these questions (and I'm not being facetious at all, I want Frontier to be able to see how its users expect to be able to play in multiplayer and why they can't do that).

Questions:

Do you and your friends plan to travel together?
Yes

If yes, how do you envisage that working?
By jumping to the same destinations. Either an option to group disengage drive with sync'd jumps, or the ability to disengage supercruise at group "targets" like other instanced objects

If no, how far apart do you see yourselves being? (Same system or many jumps apart?)

Interdiction is and always was a thing in the Elite universe. Clearly this is how a lot of fights are going to start.

How would you intend to call for help from your friends? (Assuming they're not travelling with you)
Long distance phone call. Messaging works across systems currently for friends. I would simply message them

How would you expect them to be able to target you?
Group members should show up in a system, a sort of beacon their ship broadcasts to friendlies, should list under 'contacts'

How long would you expect it to take for them to turn up to assist?
It depends where they are. I expect it to take the same amount of time as it would to travel to any similar distanced destination

If your friends weren't nearby, what would you do?
Feel like I really wished I flew with my friends and plan on it in the future.

Would you expect to be able to chat with them in-game if they're outside of the system?

If so, how would you expect that to work?
I can currently chat with online friends outside of the system.

Would you expect to be able to voice chat or just text?
See above

Let's assume your friends are out-of-system, some tens of Light Years away.

How would you expect to arrange to meet your friends?
I would expect to contact them via subspace/chat messaging/ voice

How would you expect to be able to find and target them?
They would tell me what system they are in. Friends should show up as contacts in a different color in system, as friendly ships could be broadcasting a beacon for friendlies only

How would you expect to plot a course to meet them?
I would target them like any destination or ship on contacts, and fly to them in supercruise.

Finally, an open-ended question. What barriers does the game put in your way that make the game's multiplayer feel deficient to you and your friends?
I cannot do any sync'd jumps. I cannot promise we will be in the same instances. We cannot share rewards or partake in each others missions. We cannot figure out where we are if it's not at a landmarker(station etc)

How would you like to see those things improved?
See above

If you knew those improvements were coming post-release, would you stick with the game until they come?
Absolutely

catanonia · Nov 25, 2014

Tyr07 said:
You're going to have to help me with this one. If ED - is not a co-op game. As in, you don't work with other players. And if, ED, although has pvp, has been said isn't just a 'PVP' game. Yet it's an 'Online' game. Sounds more like it's a 'Single player DRM game'.

If I can't play with my friends in some form, can only shoot the odd person in an instance but otherwise have a single player existence and experience, then why would I bother with a game that requires me to be online? I'm hoping this is part of the development plan to make happen but, if the only purpose of being online is the odd time you run into a player to shoot...

To put it basically, ED is a MMO game with single players interacting with each other as individuals for the most part due to the mechanics of the game already mentioned. Solo allows you to keep away from "real" players and only interact with NPC's for those who want the galaxy to themselves.

I personally think FD have strayed away from this in the marketing and the demo given recently with friends coop together as this would be extremely hard to do in real life. Imagine trying to super cruise together.

I think you have been misled or misinformed into thinking this is a multi player coop type of game and FD haven't helped themselves with their marketing.

Dr Hans Reinhardt · Nov 25, 2014

catanonia said:
Elite has never been a coop game and Ed is no different. The problem is that at the première the demo given was a coop demo and some of the marketing has been as such too, which when you look at it is a misrepresentation of what ED actually is 90% of the time.

QFT - many people including me feel we have been mis sold this game.

Dai · Nov 25, 2014

have you considered plotting a course and flying to the same system and teaming up if you do that you should end up in the same instance? it is a persistent world so if you want to stay together one have to stick around the same systems when you play individually.

In game comms work so you can talk to each other.

The only issue really is when interdicted you don't drop out together, whilst this is not in yet I believe it is planned that players can tether which would address this issue. Otherwise, you should be supercruising together, if you get interdicted you show as white on the scanner, your brother could drop out onto that (may not work, but worth a try)

Memnoch · Nov 25, 2014

foxpur said:
To clarify... MMO doesn't mean co-op

No but it can be a big part of it. If it weren't then there would be no support for clans. Grouping in this game, both arranged and the "Hi mate, fancy doing some missions?" type encounters could be and hopefully will be a big part of this game.

Tyr07 · Nov 25, 2014

xyphic said:
The purpose of being online is that you get the dynamic updates to the galaxy. Player actions (trades, piracy, bounty hunting, etc.) should have an effect on what you see in game and it should be more than just the occasional news feed item. There should be large events that are influenced by player actions, such as wars. Whether a capital ship attack is successfully repelled should have an impact on whether a battle is won or lost. Whether a battle is won or lost should have an impact on whether the war is won or lost. If a planet goes into famine, player philanthropy should play a part in whether they survive or fail.

All this stuff should give us a dynamic, diverse and interesting galaxy. The question is whether the background simulation can achieve it, and whether it's actually active (there's little evidence either way). My feeling is that Frontier are saving a lot of the background stuff for release, notably the underlying story which looks likely to be something like an Imperial power struggle which will lead to instability and possibly all-out war with the Federation.

IMO there's a place for the social side. Some of the more exciting prospects involve being grouped up as part of a wing or alliance. Going exploring as a group, taking on combat bonds (e.g. the demo we saw on the live stream), etc. If Frontier are serious about providing that sort of experience (and it seems as if they are, given they keep pushing it), they need to provide the tools to facilitate it, not force the player to find ways to do that themselves. Hence my questions to the OP, who clearly wants to play the game socially.

Right, should. I've asked in other forums if this is actually going to happen, I definitely can't see it yet. I'd love some information from devs about how this living galaxy works and what we should expect from it.

Crook · Nov 25, 2014

Questions:

[*] Interdiction is and always was a thing in the Elite universe. Clearly this is how a lot of fights are going to start.

[*] How would you intend to call for help from your friends? (Assuming they're not travelling with you)

Friend setting. When a friend is interdicted, you get a message

[*] How would you expect them to be able to target you?

They hyperjump right next to you, if within range of their jump engine. You are the nav beacon. Can be there in 10 seconds?

[*] How long would you expect it to take for them to turn up to assist?

10 seconds ish, from call to decision, to frameshift charge and jump

[*] If your friends weren't nearby, what would you do?

You're on your own, or general distress call. Requires more comms stuff - maybe can only call to friends?

[*] Would you expect to be able to chat with them in-game if they're outside of the system?

Yes, within limits. What about local cluster chat? I know that breaks some rules of Elite, but there you go. You either dive into MMO to make it more fun or have it alone and sterile.

[*] If so, how would you expect that to work?

what about a comms unit, that can be upgraded? level 1 is same system, level 10 is 10 systems away. Maybe the systems would have hyperspace units whizzing back and forth to send comms FTL.

[*] Would you expect to be able to voice chat or just text?

voice within system, text from without.

[*] Let's assume your friends are out-of-system, some tens of Light Years away.

[*] How would you expect to arrange to meet your friends?

Some kind of nav system - you can plot a course through known systems as waypoints.

[*] How would you expect to be able to find and target them?

make your way from system to system following your waypoints

[*] How would you expect to plot a course to meet them?

galaxy map improvements - navigation from star to star pathfinding. Not hard.

Daeron · Nov 25, 2014

I know it is the same old tune as always, but the game has not reached the feature complete prime yet. You seem to be in the future already, one that is based on the present.