I'm totally ambivalent about the Engineering changes.

[Komemiute]

I've seen threads about how much people LOVE the upcoming engineering changes, and threads about the HATE about them.

In the year 2018 I propose this thread for a more considerate player that is interested in the changes but will diligently wait to actually play the thing before getting the panties in a bunch and/or starting a salt mininig company.

Admittedly, I start as a player that did Engineering without a Min-maxing stance and had quite some fun with it: the changes for me promise to level the game as I no longer risk to waste materials for worse stats.
It also makes engineers a bit more reliable and less... artsy?

Let me know your considerate and balanced opinion!

 

[Shadowdancer]

Beige alert, tell my wife… hello.

 

[zombieapocalypse]

In the year 2018 I propose this thread for a more considerate player that is interested in the changes but will diligently wait to actually play the thing before getting the panties in a bunch and/or starting a salt mininig company.

Don't be preposterous, we're talking about gamers!

More seriously, I can't say I'm too thrilled about the proposed changes, but we need to play the beta before we can properly judge

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

They feel more accessible, delivering on 'giving you extra edge' promise.

 

[killminster]

Didn't like the old RNG kick in the teeth casino of the current system so more predictable and understandable outcomes is great.

Sounds like the grind for materials will still be a grind and how many you get per session is still a dice roll so not great.

Having to progress every module from grade 1 to 5 is the puzzler for me. I don't see how having this offsets the removal of the unpredictability of the old system. I think we should have kept the benefits of upgrading the Engineer reputation rank but I guess I'll remain ambivalent on this until I've actually played it. (I would have thought a better compromise would have been once you have unlocked a G5 module it's learned and unlocked permanently. Only you now need to unlock all G5 blueprints this way).

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I've seen threads about how much people LOVE the upcoming engineering changes, and threads about the HATE about them.

In the year 2018 I propose this thread for a more considerate player that is interested in the changes but will diligently wait to actually play the thing before getting the panties in a bunch and/or starting a salt mininig company.

Admittedly, I start as a player that did Engineering without a Min-maxing stance and had quite some fun with it: the changes for me promise to level the game as I no longer risk to waste materials for worse stats.
It also makes engineers a bit more reliable and less... artsy?

Let me know your considerate and balanced opinion!

I am completely with you on this. I didn't hate the old system, I prefer the new system, but don't love it. I will continue playing the way I normally play. Basically play the game and do a bit of engineering here and there when I have the materials.

 

[Aashenfox]

Ambivalence is born of ignorance.

 

[vipeFIN]

The problem with the current system is, nobody has any incentive to really do any other mods but the Grade 5 mods. And that pretty much makes every other mod useless.
With the new system, you will always improve your modules, and maybe you don't have to immediately go to level 5 and max it out. You'll have to work on your modules up from zero and running a level 3 mod for some time, is still going to be a real improved vs. the unmodded one.

I think this is how it was in the beginning when engineering required commodities. I was running multiple level 3 mods and was quite happy with them.

So, while it will take much more resources to do a grade 5 mod now, I think this change makes a lot of sense.

IMO

 

[Robert Maynard]

My approach to Engineering does not involve min/maxing - what it includes is unlocking each Engineer to Grade 5 then, when I buy a new module, when mats / data levels are suitable, I travel to the relevant Engineer to choose which modification to make to the new stock module (almost always between 1 and 3 rolls).

From 3.0 that will change - for stock modules, for every grade above one, there will be a number of wasted rolls just to re-unlock access to the desired grade.

It has already been pointed out by others that the changes will be a boon for those accustomed to tens or hundreds of rolls in pursuit of god-rolls - there's no doubt that reaching the new G5 maximum will take fewer rolls / data / mats.

It is equally obvious that the chance to take a punt with a single G5 modification on a stock module will be gone - replaced with a series of gates that require to be passed through before the G5 modification becomes available for that module.

.... and it is expected that the changes will encourage players to Engineer....

 

[Komemiute]

Ambivalence is born of ignorance.

I don't actually think so. It's more like a cautious stance, waiting for more data.

 

[vipeFIN]

My approach to Engineering does not involve min/maxing - what it includes is unlocking each Engineer to Grade 5 then, when I buy a new module, when mats / data levels are suitable, I travel to the relevant Engineer to choose which modification to make to the new stock module (almost always between 1 and 3 rolls).

From 3.0 that will change - for every grade above one there will be a number of wasted rolls just to re-unlock access to the desired grade.

It has already been pointed out by others that the changes will be a boon for those accustomed to tens or hundreds of rolls in pursuit of god-rolls - there's no doubt that reaching the new G5 maximum will take fewer rolls / data / mats.

It is equally obvious that the chance to take a punt with a single G5 modification on a stock module will be gone - replaced with a series of gates that require to be passed through before the G5 modification becomes available for that module.

.... and it is expected that the changes will encourage players to Engineer....

And the players who do not min/max, could be happy about a maxed out level 3 mod, couldn't they?

 

[Aashenfox]

My approach to Engineering does not involve min/maxing - what it includes is unlocking each Engineer to Grade 5 then, when I buy a new module, when mats / data levels are suitable, I travel to the relevant Engineer to choose which modification to make to the new stock module (almost always between 1 and 3 rolls).

From 3.0 that will change - for every grade above one there will be a number of wasted rolls just to re-unlock access to the desired grade.

It has already been pointed out by others that the changes will be a boon for those accustomed to tens or hundreds of rolls in pursuit of god-rolls - there's no doubt that reaching the new G5 maximum will take fewer rolls / data / mats.

It is equally obvious that the chance to take a punt with a single G5 modification on a stock module will be gone - replaced with a series of gates that require to be passed through before the G5 modification becomes available for that module.

.... and it is expected that the changes will encourage players to Engineer....

You win the internet today Robert. Even for me as a crazy minmaxer, half the modules are ok with 3 or 4 rolls. The modules that I roll over and over are only a core 4 or 5 different types. This makes my minmaxing less grindy, but my basic rolls far more expensive.

It;s obvious this was done (along with increase in mat storage) to make low level mats relevant.

What I TOTALLY do not understand is why grades are needed at all under the new model. Surely just a single scale would have been better?

I don't actually think so. It's more like a cautious stance, waiting for more data.

Please don't misunderstand, as a confident person, what I mean is that I personally sit on the fence when I'm still evaluating both sides. Once you have a full understanding of the situation, to eremain on the fence os to get in the way of both sides and serves nobody. Wasn't meant personally to anyone, just a kind of anecdote for our times.

 

[Robert Maynard]

And the players who do not min/max, could be happy about a maxed out level 3 mod, couldn't they?

That's still going to take 2x [n] rolls to unlock G3 plus [m] rolls to reach the top of G3.

From the stream last night it looked like it took c.9 rolls to unlock G3 for the stock module.

 

[Lily from anim.o.v.e]

I've seen threads about how much people LOVE the upcoming engineering changes, and threads about the HATE about them.

In the year 2018 I propose this thread for a more considerate player that is interested in the changes but will diligently wait to actually play the thing before getting the panties in a bunch and/or starting a salt mininig company.

Admittedly, I start as a player that did Engineering without a Min-maxing stance and had quite some fun with it: the changes for me promise to level the game as I no longer risk to waste materials for worse stats.
It also makes engineers a bit more reliable and less... artsy?

Let me know your considerate and balanced opinion!

The first issue I have with most features of ED is grindyness.

Sure new engineers are an improvement, but it stills eems there is way to many materials to gather. We need multiple fun and enganging ways to gather them. And not just oen single way which is repetitive, and mindless. You know stuff like scanning wakes one of the most entertaining, engaging and fun ways to gather engineerign materials.

The second issue I have is, it feels still like science with that random outcome.
Engineers should be more engineering like. Basically like tuning. So basically, you g to the Engineer and say, "make my ship faster" he asks "how fast" and you say "how fats cna you make it?" then he says. I can make it 20% faster, but for this I need X amouns of A and Y amounts of B and so on. Then i shoudl eb able to say: "oh wow thats a lot, how about makig it only 15% faster?", and he gives me the material list for those 15%
Then this turns into a small mission to get the wanted change.

 

[Komemiute]

Please don't misunderstand, as a confident person, what I mean is that I personally sit on the fence when I'm still evaluating both sides. Once you have a full understanding of the situation, to eremain on the fence os to get in the way of both sides and serves nobody. Wasn't meant personally to anyone, just a kind of anecdote for our times.

No worries, I understood that. And I agree- I will choose my stance, but not before I can test! Cheers, mate.

The first issue I have with most features of ED is grindyness.

Sure new engineers are an improvement, but it stills eems there is way to many materials to gather. We need multiple fun and enganging ways to gather them. And not just oen single way which is repetitive, and mindless. You know stuff like scanning wakes one of the most entertaining, engaging and fun ways to gather engineerign materials.

Nice, what would you envision/propose? Honest question.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

That's still going to take 2x [n] rolls to unlock G3 plus [m] rolls to reach the top of G3.

From the stream last night it looked like it took c.9 rolls to unlock G3 for the stock module.

Doesn't bother me in the slightest. As PvE player I am happy to slowly rank up my modules. Gives me something to work towards as a long term goal. The game seriously lacks goals like these, so at least there is something to work towards.

Personally I would have prefered a different system that would have made extremely unique modules. Giving each module 5 slots which you could add a range modifier, an over charge modifier to the next, then a lightweight one on the forth and then a over charge on the last. Each would have a set benefit and drawback which are added together creating very unique items. But this new system AFAIK is much better then the last, probably less grind too as I don't need to continuously throw materials away etc, and with the ability trade some up and down will make like so much easier.

 

[Rennard]

It seems to me that almost everyone wins in the new system.

1) God rollers - people that will keep grinding mats and rolling until they get that perfect module now have far less work to do

2) Casual players - Progression is now guaranteed. They can just keep turning up with materials and improving (levelling) their ships over time without the frustrations of the old system

The type of player that is perceivably going to suffer is the type that just want to turn up, max a module and leave. the bad news here is that Engineers was always intended to be a progression so while this feature has been enjoyed for a while, it was inevitably going to change.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

That's still going to take 2x [n] rolls to unlock G3 plus [m] rolls to reach the top of G3.

From the stream last night it looked like it took c.9 rolls to unlock G3 for the stock module.

And if it means spread out with less materials, materials you can trade from mats trader....feels less grindy and more progression, isn't it?

Why we are so inclined to look back? Less rolls in old system? I hated old one. It was all about maxing out ships. It mitigates that. Now it is about upgrades.

 

[seko]

Looking at some of the threads and posts about engineering, reminds me of 'real world' UK, since 23 June 2016

 

[Robert Maynard]

And if it means spread out with less materials, materials you can trade from mats trader....feels less grindy and more progression, isn't it?

Less materials? How did you work that out?

Materials look to only be able to be exchanged within the same group - and trading up looks like it has a ratio of 6:1 - that's 1 R5 material for 1,296 R1 materials.

Less grindy? I very nearly laughed out loud....

Why we are so inclined to look back? Less rolls in old system? I hated old one. It was all about maxing out ships. It mitigates that. Now it is about upgrades.

Simply because we've had the ability to roll any grade of modification on a stock module for about 20 months (since Engineers was launched). The grade gating is not an improvement, in my opinion.