Imperial Cutter =/= Imperial Clipper

Arubeto · Mar 27, 2015

Hi everyone,

reading the excellent "Elite: Legacy" I came upon some description of the Imperial Cutter. According to the book, it carries two fighters.

Now, when the Imperial Clipper was introduced, many forum members thought the Clipper was indeed the ship everyone expected to be the Cutter.

Since the clipper does not have a bay for fighters, I think this means those two are still two different ships. Since it is described in such detail in the book and because we are going to see the large Federal Corvette in the feature, I assume the Cutter will eventually come, too.

That would present us with the following faction specific ships.

So, if this list is indeed correct, what do you Elite experts think will be the Federation equivalent of the Imperial Courier and what might the Imperial Cutter look like?

Battleship (not player controllable)	Majestic Class Interdictor	Farragut Battlecruiser View attachment 24557
Light cruiser	Imperial Cutter	Federal Corvette
Large fighter or similar	Imperial Clipper View attachment 24563	Federal Dropship
Medium Fighter or similar	Imperial Courier	???
Small fighter (not jump-capable, not player-controllable)	Imperial fighter	F63 Condor

Empire [/COLOR][/th]
[th] Federation [/th]
[/tr]

Vasious · Mar 27, 2015

Yeah after reading Legacy this was my take

Tier/Manufacturer	Core Dynamics	Gutamaya
Short Range Fighter	F63 Condor	Imperial Fighter
Light ship	Eagle Mk II (Cold War Era)	????
Medium	Vulture	Imperial Courier
Large	Dropship - Rank Locked	Imperial Clipper (Replaces Trader) - Rank Locked
Pocket Captial	Federal Corvette - Rank Locked	Imperial Cutter - Rank Locked
Captial	Farragut Battlecruiser - Rank Locked	Majestic Interdictor - Rank Locked

I note the Eagle Mk.II as Cold War era as it has since been replaced by the F63 Condor
The Imperial Cold War Era Counterpart would either be the Eagle Mk.III or the Ospery but neither appear in the game files
However the Courier based on the picture could be Eagle Sized.... which would leave a Medium sized Gutayama ship
A Clipper is a fast Trading ship so makes sense for the name change.
The Imperial Fighter fits the naming scheme

Hitsuke · Mar 27, 2015

Federation are getting this:

http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Wolf_Mk.2_(Oolite)

Yeah baby!

Arubeto · Mar 27, 2015

Vasious said:
Yeah after reading Legacy this was my take

Tier/Manufacturer Core Dynamics Gutamaya
Short Range Fighter F63 Condor Imperial Fighter
Light ship Eagle Mk II (Cold War Era) ????
Medium Vulture Imperial Courier
Large Dropship - Rank Locked Imperial Clipper (Replaces Trader) - Rank Locked
Pocket Captial Federal Corvette - Rank Locked Imperial Cutter - Rank Locked
Captial Farragut Battlecruiser - Rank Locked Imperial Interdictor - Rank Locked

I note the Eagle Mk.II as Cold War era as it has since been replaced by the F63 Condor
The Imperial Cold War Era Counterpart would either be the Eagle Mk.III or the Ospery but neither appear in the game files
However the Courier based on the picture could be Eagle Sized.... which would leave a Medium sized Gutayama ship
A Clipper is a fast Trading ship so makes sense for the name change.
The Imperial Fighter fits the naming scheme

That looks like a logical assumption, but I tried to look at it more from a faction perspective and less from a manufacturer one, so I'd assume the Eagle and Vulture may not really count - even though they are produced by the Federation aligned Core Dynamics.

Btw., do you think the Clipper is indeed the same ship that was the Cutter in the book? I really hope that's not the case, removing such a nice feature like potential deployment of fighters would be such a waste.

JediMstr · Mar 27, 2015

The Core Dynamics Vulture should be the Fed equivalent of the Imperial Courier.

Also the "Imperial Interdictor" should be "Majestic Class Interdictor" since you used "Farragut Battlecruiser".

Vasious · Mar 27, 2015

Arubeto said:
That looks like a logical assumption, but I tried to look at it more from a faction perspective and less from a manufacturer one, so I'd assume the Eagle and Vulture may not really count - even though they are produced by the Federation aligned Core Dynamics.

Btw., do you think the Clipper is indeed the same ship that was the Cutter in the book? I really hope that's not the case, removing such a nice feature like potential deployment of fighters would be such a waste.

No I agree the Clipper is not the Cutter

Well From a Faction Perspective the Falcon vs Osprey and both used Eagles.

Mephane · Mar 27, 2015

Arubeto said:
Btw., do you think the Clipper is indeed the same ship that was the Cutter in the book? I really hope that's not the case, removing such a nice feature like potential deployment of fighters would be such a waste.

They are definitely not the same ships. Michael Brookes wouldn't mistake the two, plus everything we know about the Cutter points to it being bigger than the Clipper, at least as big as an Anaconda.

InMemoriamSirocco · Mar 27, 2015

Vasious said:
Yeah after reading Legacy this was my take

Tier/Manufacturer Core Dynamics Gutamaya
Short Range Fighter F63 Condor Imperial Fighter
Light ship Eagle Mk II (Cold War Era) Eagle MK III (Cold War Era)
Medium Vulture Imperial Courier
Large Dropship - Rank Locked Imperial Clipper (Replaces Trader) - Rank Locked
Pocket Captial Federal Corvette - Rank Locked Imperial Cutter - Rank Locked
Captial Farragut Battlecruiser - Rank Locked Majestic Interdictor - Rank Locked

This is pretty accurate. The Imperial Cutter is feature of a future release and will be the equivalent of the Federal Corvette. The Courier is either a small or medium sized ship but definitely much larger than an Eagle, and will be the equivalent of the Vulture (2 large hardpoints devspls kthxbye!

)

Janichsan · Mar 27, 2015

A "cutter" is a smaller type of ship than a "clipper". So the Imperial Cutter would definitely not the equivalent to the Federal Corvette.

Bortas · Mar 27, 2015

Janichsan said:
A "cutter" is a smaller type of ship than a "clipper".

Not nessecarily...

Taken from your wikis:

A Cutter (length=115m)
A Clipper (length=84m)

Tuub t Tute · Mar 27, 2015

Spare us the Cutter!

Arubeto · Mar 27, 2015

JediMstr said:
The Core Dynamics Vulture should be the Fed equivalent of the Imperial Courier.

Also the "Imperial Interdictor" should be "Majestic Class Interdictor" since you used "Farragut Battlecruiser".

Thanks for the hint, fixed.

Vasious said:
No I agree the Clipper is not the Cutter

Well From a Faction Perspective the Falcon vs Osprey and both used Eagles.

Hm, ok. I was just wondering because the other ships in the list are clearly restricted to the individual factions (Imperial Fighters only defend imperial stations, F63 only defend Federal stations, Dropship and Clipper require ranks and even have the faction in their names etc.).

Since both the Vulture and the Eagle are available to both factions and apart from the manufacturer being a company close to the Federation I didn't see an indication that they'd be Federation specific.

Perhaps it was just wishful thinking that I wanted to see a Federation equivalent to the Courier, since I always like the flavor of faction specific content

Gives the factions more personality, IMO.

Janichsan · Mar 27, 2015

Bortas said:
Not nessecarily...

Taken from your wikis:

A Cutter (length=115m)
A Clipper (length=84m)

Talking about skewed comparisons: how about a cruiser that is only 85 m long?

Bortas · Mar 27, 2015

Janichsan said:
Talking about skewed comparisons: how about a cruiser that is only 85 m long?

You get the idea... ship-classification doesn't have much to do with size and changes over time.

Real-life military ship classification is more about the ships' role than their actual size or design. Some are ditched and some even reinvented at some point (the corvette is a good example).

Let's get back to the cutter... the cutter was (and still is) called cutter because of it's special hull design, which is able to "cut" through he water quite efficiently, making it quite fast. This classification makes absolutely no sense for a spacecraft. So a spaceship in the year 3300 called a "cutter" can virtually be anything from a shutte to a capital ship.

Arubeto · Mar 27, 2015

Bortas said:
You get the idea... ship-classification doesn't have much to do with size and changes over time.

Real-life military ship classification is more about the ships' role than their actual size or design. Some are ditched and some even reinvented at some point (the corvette is a good example).

Let's get back to the cutter... the cutter was (and still is) called cutter because of it's special hull design, which is able to "cut" through he water quite efficiently, making it quite fast. This classification makes absolutely no sense for a spacecraft. So a spaceship in the year 3300 called a "cutter" can virtually be anything from a shutte to a capital ship.

Given that the other imperial ships Clipper and Courier are both fast vessels, the term "Cutter" could still imply that it's going to be a fast ship, too, couldn't it?

Lord_Crazy · Mar 27, 2015

Very nice thread.
BTW you made a little mistake: Since the clipper does not have a bay for fighters, I think this means those two are still two different ships. Since it is described in such detail in the book and because we are going to see the large Federal Corvette in the feature, I assume the clipper will eventually come, too.

I assume the second "clipper" should be "cutter"

You may want to edit your post.

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Arubeto said:
Given that the other imperial ships Clipper and Courier are both fast vessels, the term "Cutter" could still imply that it's going to be a fast ship, too, couldn't it?

It is hard to tell but in my mind Imperial ships tend to trade sturdiness for a bit of extra speed an maneuverability. It does not have to be like this every time but that might be Gutamaya's signature.

Vasious · Mar 27, 2015

Arubeto said:
Given that the other imperial ships Clipper and Courier are both fast vessels, the term "Cutter" could still imply that it's going to be a fast ship, too, couldn't it?

And they all begin with C too

Arubeto · Mar 27, 2015

Lord_Crazy said:
Very nice thread.
BTW you made a little mistake: Since the clipper does not have a bay for fighters, I think this means those two are still two different ships. Since it is described in such detail in the book and because we are going to see the large Federal Corvette in the feature, I assume the clipper will eventually come, too.

I assume the second "clipper" should be "cutter" You may want to edit your post.

It took me a few seconds to understand what you mean, since you didn't use "quote" tags and I thought that was your statement, not mine

Thanks for the hint, though; fixed it

Arubeto · Mar 27, 2015

Just noticed the Federal Dropship is using medium landing pads.

Now, ignoring all the debates about what constitutes the size of a ship, might this imply that the dropship might be the counterpart of the Imperial Courier's and not of the Clipper?

Would that mean we might see a large Federation ship between the dropship and the corvette eventually?

Feldspar · Mar 27, 2015

Arubeto said:
Just noticed the Federal Dropship is using medium landing pads.

Now, ignoring all the debates about what constitutes the size of a ship, might this imply that the dropship might be the counterpart of the Imperial Courier's and not of the Clipper?

Would that mean we might see a large Federation ship between the dropship and the corvette eventually?

I very much doubt it, the Clipper uses a large pad simply because of its huge footprint.