Imperial Slavery

And this does not even address the real problem - every imperial slave takes away a job from a free citizen. Why pay someone if you can use a slave for free? And the free citizen left jobless will likely have no option than to sell himself into slavery, taking away another job, and so on. And this is the real reason slavery was abolished IRL - it is a death spiral for economy, incompatible with a free enterprise system.

This would only be true if fresh slaves (say, from conquered regions) were being imported back into the Empire and creating a glut of available labour in a limited environment.
It could be that a 'job' doesn't change actual employee at all. Only social and employment status would. Most likely however, the job would be waiting for the slave somewhere else in the Empire.
There are jobs in most 'advanced' societies that most people don't want to do (I'm thinking of carers, cleaners, teaching assistants etc - I'm sure there are lots of others). Theses places are filled by economic migrants with a wide field of abilities. Isn't this actually contemporary exploitation by the global capitalistic system? Can't you imagine the same idea manifested in a different form, where instead of free markets picking and choosing according to profit margins, the society takes responsibility and ownership of the poor and destitute, giving them employment and the chance to work out of that poverty?
I like the idea that the Empire takes responsibility for it's population and then demands responsibility from that population, regardless of social status. I can really see such a system as working and benefiting a society that had the courage to do it.
The Empire, like other powers and even single system independents, are expanding into the galaxy. Job creation, at all levels, would be happening in this expansion.
If anything, it would be robots and technology that might take away jobs and livelihoods; something associated more with the Corporate mentality than Imperial prestige - and where is the honour in being served or serviced by a machine?
 
He said that in the same way he said that he's a scammer who purposefully released an unfinished product to fleece people. Even had he, he is objectively wrong, about Rome, its system of slavery, and the totalitarian nature of the empire.



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Cmnd Fulsom
 
He said that in the same way he said that he's a scammer who purposefully released an unfinished product to fleece people. Even had he, he is objectively wrong, about Rome, its system of slavery, and the totalitarian nature of the empire.



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Cmnd Fulsom

... says Cmnd Fulsom without support of any factual argument or source. My apologies, but DBOE ranks higher on my credibility list than you.

"Purposely released an unfinished product to fleece people"... that is Chris Roberts, not David Braben. Also, the ten year plan communicated during Kickstarter very clearly stated that the product released initially would be everything, expect fininished.



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I'd be perfectly happy enslaving criminals, as long as said slavery had a set duration. It would actually be better than prison, or execution, and they might learn something from the experience. But it absolutely would be limited to criminals and only criminals.
 
I'd be perfectly happy enslaving criminals, as long as said slavery had a set duration. It would actually be better than prison, or execution, and they might learn something from the experience. But it absolutely would be limited to criminals and only criminals.

They use to call those "Penal Colonies", perhaps the most famous one on Earth you may know by another name: Australia.

I wouldn't mind a man-made island, perhaps in the antarctic seas, for the storage and disposal of the worst humanity has to offer. Set up some cameras around the place, and let them tear each other apart for our entertainment. I mean, the gladatorial arena was a big hit in Rome....
 
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They use to call those "Penal Colonies", perhaps the most famous one on Earth you may know by another name: Australia.

For any USians who have never heard of anywhere outside the continental United States, one closer to home was called um... Carolina.
 
The thing that people always bring up in defence of Imperial slavery is that it's voluntary. But is it? In some cases it might be but in other cases it doesn't look like people had much choice. Live free and starve or accept servitude and eat. Then we get into the power play characters. Senator Torval's annual event buying thousands of slaves to 'free' them to become imperial slaves, doesn't sound like those people had any choice about it does it? Before Denton Patreaus was promoted to lead the Imperial Navy his regular trick was to offer systems huge loans for various things and then call them in early. If a system didn't pay up, he'd send in his personal fleet to 'persuade' them to pay up. If they didn't have the credits he would accept payment in Imperial slaves. I'm guessing most of those unfortunates didn't get much of a choice. Even the Emperor herself has ordered slaves to be brought to Achenar as a coronation present (and she wasn't fussy about where they can from, Imperial and regular slaves were both accepted).
 
I've never been bothered by the voluntary entry for debt relief. If the system allows the debt to be paid, and concludes with the person getting a chance to make better choices going forward, fine.

But as mentioned earlier, there is zero actual protection for Imperial citizens entering into this system. Any CMDR violating these contracts should become Wanted and punished to the fullest extent (KOS + Fines of 100% of the price paid for those violated slaves).

There is really no way to have a bad-guy reputation in the Elite world, though, so ultimately I guess it doesn't matter.
 

Jenner

I wish I was English like my hero Tj.
The thing that people always bring up in defence of Imperial slavery is that it's voluntary. But is it? In some cases it might be but in other cases it doesn't look like people had much choice. Live free and starve or accept servitude and eat. Then we get into the power play characters. Senator Torval's annual event buying thousands of slaves to 'free' them to become imperial slaves, doesn't sound like those people had any choice about it does it? Before Denton Patreaus was promoted to lead the Imperial Navy his regular trick was to offer systems huge loans for various things and then call them in early. If a system didn't pay up, he'd send in his personal fleet to 'persuade' them to pay up. If they didn't have the credits he would accept payment in Imperial slaves. I'm guessing most of those unfortunates didn't get much of a choice. Even the Emperor herself has ordered slaves to be brought to Achenar as a coronation present (and she wasn't fussy about where they can from, Imperial and regular slaves were both accepted).

Much like the Roman Empire that it's loosely based on, I'm sure the Empire sees itself as a beacon of civilization in a barbaric galaxy.

What was it Lando Mollari said?

"Sadly, arrogance has never been exclusively a Human trait. It travels between the stars like solar winds."

Same could be said in the Elite universe. It's not like any one faction is some paragon of virtue. :)
 
The historical version of Indentured Servitude was bad too... Technically it was a safety net but...

Workers were paid a low wage.
Workers were forced to live on a compound (which they were not allowed to leave while the indenture was in operation)
This meant they had to buy all their food, clothes and yes even accommodation from their "employer"
The costs invariably exceeded the wage, and so in reality the debt could never be paid off.

Eventually governments stepped in and mostly made it illegal (though it does still go on all round the world).
 
The thing that people always bring up in defence of Imperial slavery is that it's voluntary. But is it? In some cases it might be but in other cases it doesn't look like people had much choice. Live free and starve or accept servitude and eat. Then we get into the power play characters. Senator Torval's annual event buying thousands of slaves to 'free' them to become imperial slaves, doesn't sound like those people had any choice about it does it? Before Denton Patreaus was promoted to lead the Imperial Navy his regular trick was to offer systems huge loans for various things and then call them in early. If a system didn't pay up, he'd send in his personal fleet to 'persuade' them to pay up. If they didn't have the credits he would accept payment in Imperial slaves. I'm guessing most of those unfortunates didn't get much of a choice. Even the Emperor herself has ordered slaves to be brought to Achenar as a coronation present (and she wasn't fussy about where they can from, Imperial and regular slaves were both accepted).

Very few people want/volunteer to be destitute, but it happens in any society due to hierarchy. Which society gives unfortunates any choices? I guess the practice of Imperial slavery, and the choice to submit to it, are a safety net against the deprivations of poverty; keyed into the cultural fabric of honour, status and duty within the Empire.
As for the underclasses in Imperial conquests or the rescued slaves given Imperial status, where do you expect these people to join the Imperial social hierarchy?
 
imperial serfs would be a more accurate description. i think its based on ancient Rome law slavery. and once you went over the rubicon river the law of rome didnt apply and they were just slaves and treated far worse. roman law gave slaves a lot of rights and protections apparently - including the ability to buy your freedom. so slaves in roman law area could earn money.
 
Any system that lets me take people in a cargo hold and sell them anywhere legal or more importantly illegally is bad. And there is nothing stopping people from just jettisoning them into stars.

I mean nothing is stopping criminal organizations from purchasing them and using them for I'll gains.

Incorrect. There are laws about the humane treatment of imperial slaves. This is why it is illegal to "sell" them outside of empire space.

The only thing curtailing illegal activity is the fact that it is illegal. Having said that, the law can't stop people from doing illegal things, it just codifies the expected behavior and punishment should that behavior not be met.

You do not transport imperial slaves in a cargo hold packed in like cattle. Really, the hang up people have on this whole subject is that the word slave is used and that brings up negative connotations. (as is pointed out on page 1)
 
They use to call those "Penal Colonies", perhaps the most famous one on Earth you may know by another name: Australia.

I wouldn't mind a man-made island, perhaps in the antarctic seas, for the storage and disposal of the worst humanity has to offer. Set up some cameras around the place, and let them tear each other apart for our entertainment. I mean, the gladatorial arena was a big hit in Rome....

The irony being, that it's now almost impossible to get into Australia if you have a criminal background!

As for the man-made island, you have the exact same idea as me, I've been talking about something like that for years. Drop food in once a week, and watch 'em fight over it. The perfect place for the very worst of humanity, and you don't even have to staff it, it's genius really.
 
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