Improve guest money management

[gustavoks]

Hi.
recently i noted that many guests don't know to manage their money. Here's what happens: one guest go to a ride that cost 10,00 but he has 2,00. He tries to enter the queue line, but then he notices he has not enough money, and he's not allowed to enter. What does he do after? He goes to another ride (that will cost much more than 2,00), only to be barred again at the entrance.
Here's an example: i created a roller coaster and was charging 20,00. Many guests tried to enter, but weren't allowed (due to the lack of money). So i installed an ATM next to it. Many of the guests just ignored it. Some of them used the machine, but after withdrawing the money, they've gone to another ride, instead of going to the coaster they were just not allowed to enter.
This behavior has a secondary effect: as many guests can't enter the rides (or buy in the shops), they start to complain about prices being to high. But, if you don't have money, you can not complain about prices.
Also, i noticed that money has 3 levels: green (wallet full), orange (half wallet) and red (almost empty wallet). I suggest that, when guest money reaches the red level, they should look for an ATM before trying to enter all the rides in the park having only 2,00 dollars. This is a more realistic behavior and would greatly improve the game.
This also applies to toilet. Many guests have their bladder almost full and don't go to the toilet, instead, they prefer to go to a ride.

I hope i could make myself clear, since English in not my language [big grin]

 

[Phrankensteyn]

totally agree!

 

[KkOo]

seems legit [up]

 

[widlanquebec]

Yes, I agree with these suggestions! [up]

 

[Rockomax]

Basically this.

https://forums.planetcoaster.com/showthread.php/28313-Guests-dumber-than-bricks

 

[LN]

Here's an example: i created a roller coaster and was charging 20,00. Many guests tried to enter, but weren't allowed (due to the lack of money).

Why change something if you already gave the answer of the issue.

Only a certain percentage of peeps use the ATM.

What you are asking is infinite money (everybody use the ATM when out of money)
There have been some threads in the past that go deeper into this.

you can charge 20 for a coaster, the guests are willing to pay that (if prestige is high enough), but this will make them go out of money faster, so that's the problem you are creating. Peeps are not an infinite money source, they only bring a certain amount of money with them (and on their account).

If I spend 100$ I wouldn't be too happy to go use the ATM, but no one can force me to leave the park.

 

[Rockomax]

Why change something if you already gave the answer of the issue.

Only a certain percentage of peeps use the ATM.

What you are asking is infinite money (everybody use the ATM when out of money)
There have been some threads in the past that go deeper into this.

you can charge 20 for a coaster, the guests are willing to pay that (if prestige is high enough), but this will make them go out of money faster, so that's the problem you are creating. Peeps are not an infinite money source, they only bring a certain amount of money with them (and on their account).

If I spend 100$ I wouldn't be too happy to go use the ATM, but no one can force me to leave the park.

I think that for a park with free entry paying 20 for a coaster in this game isn't overpriced, assuming the rides prestige is over 1000. However prices can go lower and still get a profit, but unless you will be charging at least half the problem remains. People spent their money quickly.

The real issue here is the creation of many false positives.
Let's assume a guest ( group ) spent over an hour in the park, well above average. They brought 200 into the park, spent it all and took 150 from ATM and spent that amount as well, the next sensible thing for them to think is that they had a great time and perhaps it's time to leave. Instead they wonder around with only 2 in cash, going to rides or shops and say in worse case that the ride/shop is too expensive and the park is ripping people off.

As for your example of spending 100 and not willing to go the ATM, I guess you're reflecting on a real life situation. Planet Coaster isn't real life.
Virtually all real parks charge an entry fee and offer mostly free rides, but since this isn't viable in Planet Coaster, we're stuck with charging for rides. ( challenge / scenario mode )

 

[LN]

I think that for a park with free entry paying 20 for a coaster in this game isn't overpriced, assuming the rides prestige is over 1000. However prices can go lower and still get a profit, but unless you will be charging at least half the problem remains. People spent their money quickly.

The real issue here is the creation of many false positives.
Let's assume a guest ( group ) spent over an hour in the park, well above average. They brought 200 into the park, spent it all and took 150 from ATM and spent that amount as well, the next sensible thing for them to think is that they had a great time and perhaps it's time to leave. Instead they wonder around with only 2 in cash, going to rides or shops and say in worse case that the ride/shop is too expensive and the park is ripping people off.

As for your example of spending 100 and not willing to go the ATM, I guess you're reflecting on a real life situation. Planet Coaster isn't real life.
Virtually all real parks charge an entry fee and offer mostly free rides, but since this isn't viable in Planet Coaster, we're stuck with charging for rides. ( challenge / scenario mode )

If a group enters the park with € 200, let's say they are with 4 persons, because that's quite common. They can ride 2,5 rides IF they are all priced at € 20,-. If a park has 10 rides, they cannot even ride 25% of the rides.

Are you sure it's not overpriced?

Even with 2 rides it's overpriced. Sure they go in. But their day would suck from that moment. How is that good management if people can't do anything because they lost all their money after riding 1 ride?

You are looking for a fix while the answer is plain in sight.

ps. it has nothing to do with real life situations. All you want is unlimited cashflow.

 

[cerealfruitcakes]

I don't get this argument that it's the players fault for taking their money too fast so it's your fault that they loiter in your park instead of just leaving and being smart enough to know they're broke. The game is designed around squeezing out as much money from our guests as we can but then we get punished for doing so because they don't leave when they run out, they rarely use the ATM's and they don't bring more money as your park gets larger. It's not about wanting infinite money it's just about a balanced system that makes sense. Spending an hour+ wondering around the park looking for some $0.50 ride for way too long does not make sense. Why is that the players fault when the game lets you charge those high prices? That's not balanced.

 

[Rockomax]

Are you sure it's not overpriced?

Even with 2 rides it's overpriced. Sure they go in. But their day would suck from that moment. How is that good management if people can't do anything because they lost all their money after riding 1 ride?

All you want is unlimited cashflow.

Just to test reasonable low prices on rides, made them 10 for coasters. This made clueless guest behavior even worse in my opinion. Now queues are overcrowded which make them them go from ride to ride until they come across a ride which by chance has a shorter queue.

Don't want unlimited cash flow, seems you didn't read. I would like guests NOT wander around without enough money for even to pay 2.5 to ride the carousel and make the decision quicker to either get money at a ATM or make their way out of the park after having a good time. ( 1 hour or so )

I don't get this argument that it's the players fault for taking their money too fast so it's your fault that they loiter in your park instead of just leaving and being smart enough to know they're broke. The game is designed around squeezing out as much money from our guests as we can but then we get punished for doing so because they don't leave when they run out, they rarely use the ATM's and they don't bring more money as your park gets larger. It's not about wanting infinite money it's just about a balanced system that makes sense. Spending an hour+ wondering around the park looking for some $0.50 ride for way too long does not make sense. Why is that the players fault when the game lets you charge those high prices? That's not balanced.

What Cerealfruitcakes said is spot on.

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

I don't get this argument that it's the players fault for taking their money too fast so it's your fault that they loiter in your park instead of just leaving and being smart enough to know they're broke. The game is designed around squeezing out as much money from our guests as we can but then we get punished for doing so because they don't leave when they run out, they rarely use the ATM's and they don't bring more money as your park gets larger. It's not about wanting infinite money it's just about a balanced system that makes sense. Spending an hour+ wondering around the park looking for some $0.50 ride for way too long does not make sense. Why is that the players fault when the game lets you charge those high prices? That's not balanced.

I think that actually is the balance.
If all peeps left as soon as you took all their money, new peeps and new money replaces them.
If they then balanced it so that new peeps didn't arrive immediately, then you could conceivably wind up with an empty park. So instead, they just keep the peeps around for an hour to hour and a half regardless, to manage money and population flow. It keeps the park looking busy and caps your income.

If that is annoying, then charge for park entrance with free rides. Then peeps are free to enjoy themselves for their set amount of time. That is the business model of what? 95% of all real amusement parks?

Full queues? It's a fact of life. You will never have anything "perfect" in this simulation. It's just not possible.
If you make the queue longer then they won't ride because the wait is too long. Remove that variable, then the queue will be full again.

There have to be these parameters whether you like them or not. Every parameter you wish to tweak, is tied to other parameters. Tweaking those will effect something else. Most solutions given just lead to making it even easier to make money. It's already super easy.

 

[breezerHOG1]

I agree with Bitter Jeweler, I don't want the game to be easier. There are other ways to improve management and add challenge to the game, but increasing profits or increasing guest money is not the answer. What we need is a better system for ride prestige, maybe a better flow of time, and more importantly, better objectives for scenarios. That is why I really hope we get a scenario editor soon, but it needs to be fully featured like the ones from RCT2/3. Hopefully the devs are working on that, plus UGC, which I know is probably a lot of work to get just right [yesnod] its good to see more people discussing management and finances though!

 

[Rockomax]

I think that actually is the balance.
If all peeps left as soon as you took all their money, new peeps and new money replaces them.
If they then balanced it so that new peeps didn't arrive immediately, then you could conceivably wind up with an empty park. So instead, they just keep the peeps around for an hour to hour and a half regardless, to manage money and population flow. It keeps the park looking busy and caps your income.

If that is annoying, then charge for park entrance with free rides. Then peeps are free to enjoy themselves for their set amount of time. That is the business model of what? 95% of all real amusement parks?

Full queues? It's a fact of life. You will never have anything "perfect" in this simulation. It's just not possible.
If you make the queue longer then they won't ride because the wait is too long. Remove that variable, then the queue will be full again.

I would ( again ) never ask for infinite perfection on everything, just this brain dead wandering around creating several false positives annoys me.
It seems for computer simulated entities they sure lack the ability to make decent decisions.
Most amusement parks have mobile apps which keeps you updated on ride queues and what not, so why can't internally guests be aware of whats going on and base a decisions on that.
For all I care it could give screens another use. Having them display park info.

edit:

Looking at "veteran" replies in this thread it seems we're stuck in a "responding to older threads" discussion again.

 

[breezerHOG1]

@Rockomax - there is a difference between making guests smarter, and giving guests more money. If you want guests to be smarter, then you have to understand how that will effect CPU performance. I do wish guests were more interesting, like in RCT guests would wander around enjoying scenery, sometimes get lost, take photos, etc. I wish guests in PC had more animations like taking photos, wandering/exploring scenery, or even having large groups that split up. Unfortunately, the guests in PC seem to take up a lot of the CPU usage, as guests calculate a lot of variables for which path they should take. Optimizing guest performance is something I hope for, but I'm not too sure how big of an impact it will have compared to other features that could be added.

For all I care it could give screens another use. Having them display park info.

I personally, don't think that it would add much value having guests stop to read signs before heading to a ride. Like you said, in real life Park Maps are on peoples phones these days, but its a game so we can pretend that old fashioned maps are still a thing just for the fun of it

Looking at "veteran" replies in this thread it seems we're stuck in a "responding to older threads" discussion again.

The OP was specifically talking about guest money and ATM usage, which IMO is not the problem that needs addressing. What's wrong with the fact that I brought up other aspects of management?

 

[widlanquebec]

Sure, the solution is not to give almost unlimited money with the use of ATM. But I agree that the guests should be more aware of what they have and stop giving false alarms that doesn't make sense. Sure, you'll not have a ride that cost 1.50$, so stop searching about it ;-)

The guests seem to be more CPU intensive, but it lacks the randomization and wandering of guests in previous iterations. Sometimes, in a park, we just walk to relax and not always have something specific in mind.

 

[Rockomax]

@Rockomax - there is a difference between making guests smarter, and giving guests more money. If you want guests to be smarter, then you have to understand how that will effect CPU performance. I do wish guests were more interesting, like in RCT guests would wander around enjoying scenery, sometimes get lost, take photos, etc. I wish guests in PC had more animations like taking photos, wandering/exploring scenery, or even having large groups that split up. Unfortunately, the guests in PC seem to take up a lot of the CPU usage, as guests calculate a lot of variables for which path they should take. Optimizing guest performance is something I hope for, but I'm not too sure how big of an impact it will have compared to other features that could be added.

I don't really see a performance issue if the guests were programmed to make better decisions. For sure a few lines of code that tells whether a guest goes home or ATM when below ride/shop price average will not cause a lot more lag for people who already suffer a lot due to massive amounts of scenery.

I personally, don't think that it would add much value having guests stop to read signs before heading to a ride. Like you said, in real life Park Maps are on peoples phones these days, but its a game so we can pretend that old fashioned maps are still a thing just for the fun of it

Never said they would actually have a detailed study of information screens, just having them in the park at several locations will inform them on the run. Sort of like passively camera's detect crime.
Don't really care having screens with info or not, I just don't want guests go from ride to ride and upon arriving they lack money or queue is too busy for them.
Talking about CPU usage. All these decisions will add up quickly with for example 5000 guests.

The OP was specifically talking about guest money and ATM usage, which IMO is not the problem that needs addressing. What's wrong with the fact that I brought up other aspects of management?

[/QUOTE]

Overall the OP's post was about how guests behave under certain conditions.