IMPROVEMENTS for the devs to consider

[wargwargwarg]

...smallish semi-bugs to correct, nothing major

1. if in supercruise all kinds of contacts are shown, when exiting supercruise none of them are shown anymore. Yes, that's where fighting takes place.. but perhaps a buton to switch contacts on/off as needed after a fight to get your bearings. For example 2 signals near to one other, drop from supercruise on one and deal with it, where to turn for supercruise on the second?

2. sometimes, lock on destination station is lost on succesive jumps (and not only). I read it's a known issue

3. if the waiting time for universe and system screens to load from server can't be avoided, can the player still maneuver in the interim? Due to server lag, sometimes some 20+ seconds pass until system screen is displayed, time when the ship accelerates on its own and easily gets to 30c and almost exits the system. At least deceleration would be nice, to know I'm not overshooting something.

4. on final approach (~0.1c), sometimes the engine revs up almost on it's own up to 70% when the input was for a slight acceleration only. Once at 70% it stays there a while, no matter of input, accelerating the ship to ~0.7c, overshooting the target....Well, I kind of like this, as if there are 2 different kinds of engines for the various supercruise speeds and the "crazy" behaviour is from another engine taking over from the last, with another set of rules....BUt iot smells like a bug.

It's not that slow decrease / increase passing by big objects​

.

If no input is made, this acceleration does not occur.​

​

 

[Cynaqq]

1. is an instancing issue. Due to network syncing of entities with high velocity differences is not possible, contacts in Supercruise and normal space have to be in different instances. They can't be shown because they simply do not exist for you anymore when you drop out of supercruise.

2. known issue as you said, they'll look into it hopefully quickly.

3. Zero your throttle before you open you map or better yet, drop out of SC, stop completely and then look at the map. This is not a workaround for your perceived problem but a recommendation for your safety. Leaving your ship accelerating in supercruise can have unpleasant results such as getting interdicted while looking at the map or driving into a star you have nor previously noticed.

4. This is because SC speeds are adjusted semi automatically according to your distance to celestial bodies in the system. If you don't want to overshoot, keep your throttle in the blue zone and as you approach, decrease throttle to keep the ETA under the target lock at seven seconds. Anything lower than 5 and you'll overshoot accelerating because the game will think you'll want to do a flyby and continue on instead of stopping there. It's not a bug and is working as intended. You also want to overshoot on purpose and come back from the other side to shake off ships behind you to avoid an interdiction.

Happy flying!

 

[wargwargwarg]

4. This is because SC speeds are adjusted semi automatically according to your distance to celestial bodies in the system. If you don't want to overshoot, keep your throttle in the blue zone and as you approach, decrease throttle to keep the ETA under the target lock at seven seconds. Anything lower than 5 and you'll overshoot accelerating because the game will think you'll want to do a flyby and continue on instead of stopping there. It's not a bug and is working as intended. You also want to overshoot on purpose and come back from the other side to shake off ships behind you to avoid an interdiction.

Happy flying!

Ok, but why is the ship unresponsive to throttle during this sequence? The ship should do its prescripted behavior for that case but discontinue it on player input.

This might be of interest as a way to shave off some seconds off each approach, flying faster and decelerating later.

Usually, after the speed indicator changes from c to Mm, I get in the blue with speed but about twice as far for distance and, judging by the visuals, I feel confident enough to want a small but noticeable increase in speed ...only about 50% of the times this uncontrollable boost happens (or basically it starts every time but I catch it in time to be manageable).

Perhaps something like If(Player.Input) Then Do (Player.Input) could be inserted in that code?

...

Speaking of SuperCruise, exiting it at low speeds (what , 30km/s) doesn't quite warrant that opaque animation and the BANG! Perhaps a less intense transition and sound intensity, depending on speed?

 

[Bacalao]

Ok, but why is the ship unresponsive to throttle during this sequence? The ship should do its prescripted behavior for that case but discontinue it on player input.

This might be of interest as a way to shave off some seconds off each approach, flying faster and decelerating later.

Usually, after the speed indicator changes from c to Mm, I get in the blue with speed but about twice as far for distance and, judging by the visuals, I feel confident enough to want a small but noticeable increase in speed ...only about 50% of the times this uncontrollable boost happens (or basically it starts every time but I catch it in time to be manageable).

Perhaps something like If(Player.Input) Then Do (Player.Input) could be inserted in that code?

...

Speaking of SuperCruise, exiting it at low speeds (what , 30km/s) doesn't quite warrant that opaque animation and the BANG! Perhaps a less intense transition and sound intensity, depending on speed?

The inability to decelerate because of a momentary minor acceleration at the magical 0:06 is there so that.....you spend more time in supercruise? I have no idea, it doesn't make sense, it is an excellent time sink though.
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Even when you're exiting supercruise at minimum speed, you're still going 30km/s, that's dang fast, the transition between really fast and too fast is 1Mm/s, faster than that and you spin out taking damage, slower and you come out in a controlled drop. The faster above 1Mm/s you go the more damage you take.

 

[Cynaqq]

It is there to make sure you have enough distance to brake when you turn around after you overshoot. This way when the ship slows down, it'll be around drop off distance.

If this sounds strange, slow down near a station, zero the throttle and wait for it to slow down to 30km/s. It'll be impossible to turn your ship and face the station to drop out unless you go a certain distance away from the station and turn back. Also chansws are it'll drop you out really far away from the station.

With the mandatory acceleration and deceleration, it puts the much needed distance between you and the station.

 

[dubsdj]

4. I always wait till exactly 7 seconds then throttle down to 75. then tap the down throttle a tiny notch , seems to be the best way to do the approach from what I have found so far.

 

[FliesWithEyesClosed]

One thing that i like to do when i approach a station in supercruise is i'll turn away from it once i'm close enough probably about 45 degrees off my nose and i'll let some of my speed bleed off a bit while i do a corkscrew or several orbits around the station. My speed bleeds down and i'm still moving towards it. Once my speed is slow enough to where i know i wont overshoot then i'll head directly for the station and drop out once i'm the right distance.

EDIT: included a video of me doing the manuever to better show what i'm talking about

https://youtu.be/K8qQstCU76o

Sorry for the resolution and quality but i lowered those settings intentionally so i didnt end up with a 1:30 clip that was 4gb. Also i went and made that recording just now and i usually finish my corkscrew and align back up with the station about 10-15Mm away and with 2-3Mm speed. But i came out at i think 10Ls and 1.5Mm which is further and slower than i normally come out of my corkscrew. It should still give you a general idea of what i'm talking about.

Also i kinda just figured on my own that the varation in actual speed and throttlw position when moving in supercruise was due to gravitational forces and planets and stars nearby. One thing that i think would be nice to see was if we had a dedicated approach system built into the ships computer. Kinda like an ILS or glidepath indicator for aircraft carrier landings. But i notice that the throttle bar changes colors when in space so maybe thats supposed to be similar to what i was talking about?

 

[wargwargwarg]

I don't deny there is a reason for this behaviour but it is not all-encompassing.
It's a question of "do I pilot my ship" or "do I let it fly for me".
Were this for real, I'd have bought another flight computer on the first starport.
Pilot input should always override automation. Yes, bleeding excess speed, yes, timed deceleration, but also accelerate controllably if I so damn please!

 

[FliesWithEyesClosed]

What's making you think that your ship is flying on its own?

Your throttle setting wont always affect your speed. You can be at zero throttle but outside forces can still cause your ship (or aircraft if you want to talk about regular flight sims) to speed up or slow down. Zero throttle and putting your aircraft in a dive will cause it to speed up, pulling your nose up will cause it to slow down. In a space sim zero throttle and being close to a planets gravitational pull should cause you to speed up. I only say "should" because its up to the devs to model that behavior properly. Almost all flight sims will model accel/decel and throttle inputs correctly and if they dont then its an arcade sim. I think you also mentioned something about hearing your engine rev up too despite having no throttle? when i first heard that i actually didnt think of it as my ship flying itself, increasing engine output on its own. I viewed it as more of a sound feedback system that the devs put in to let you know when your ship is caught in a planets gravity or that you are doing an approach to a system. They could have done something a bit more elaborate like a sensor system that lets you know that you are caught in a gravity pull. Or they could have done something more annoying like your whole ship/screen shaking. But choosing to make the ship sound like it is in a dive was a good choice imo.

I dunno though maybe i'm misunderstanding what you're talking about...

 

[wargwargwarg]

What's making you think that your ship is flying on its own?

Your throttle setting wont always affect your speed. You can be at zero throttle but outside forces can still cause your ship (or aircraft if you want to talk about regular flight sims) to speed up or slow down. Zero throttle and putting your aircraft in a dive will cause it to speed up, pulling your nose up will cause it to slow down. In a space sim zero throttle and being close to a planets gravitational pull should cause you to speed up. I only say "should" because its up to the devs to model that behavior properly. Almost all flight sims will model accel/decel and throttle inputs correctly and if they dont then its an arcade sim. I think you also mentioned something about hearing your engine rev up too despite having no throttle? when i first heard that i actually didnt think of it as my ship flying itself, increasing engine output on its own. I viewed it as more of a sound feedback system that the devs put in to let you know when your ship is caught in a planets gravity or that you are doing an approach to a system. They could have done something a bit more elaborate like a sensor system that lets you know that you are caught in a gravity pull. Or they could have done something more annoying like your whole ship/screen shaking. But choosing to make the ship sound like it is in a dive was a good choice imo.

I dunno though maybe i'm misunderstanding what you're talking about...

I never said my throttle was zero and I'm not speaking of the slight speed variations induced by other masses...Instead of a new explanation, try this a few times and see for yourself: SC to something reasonably far away, get on aproach to blue marked speeds but well out of the blue marked distance range. Now, press accelerate for like half a second (or what would cause an increase of some 30% in speed). My engine starts reving up uncontrollably (feels and sounds almost like full throttle, display is at about 70% throttle) and stays there for some seconds: ship accelerates too much and overshoots the target. I can steer but can't reduce throttle.
So, instead of cutting some 10 seconds on each approach, I loose some 25 seconds circling and trying again.

 

[FliesWithEyesClosed]

I never said my throttle was zero and I'm not speaking of the slight speed variations induced by other masses...Instead of a new explanation, try this a few times and see for yourself: SC to something reasonably far away, get on aproach to blue marked speeds but well out of the blue marked distance range. Now, press accelerate for like half a second (or what would cause an increase of some 30% in speed). My engine starts reving up uncontrollably (feels and sounds almost like full throttle, display is at about 70% throttle) and stays there for some seconds: ship accelerates too much and overshoots the target. I can steer but can't reduce throttle.
So, instead of cutting some 10 seconds on each approach, I loose some 25 seconds circling and trying again.

I was actually just using zero throttle as an extreme example of how no throttle input and some kind of outside force could still cause you to have speed/accel/decel. But anyways, i've tried approaching a station starting as far out as 50Ls. Multiple throttle and speed settings and i cant recreate what you are talking about when you say that you arent able to reduce throttle. Have done that from 50Ls all the way up to 1Mm when the station zipped past me. I cant recreat what it is you are talking about. Can you record what you are talking about with FRAPS or Bandicam? also just to be sure that we arent using different terminology. When i say throttle i am talking about the horizontal line on the speedometer which i pointed out with the white arrow. Speed is of course the bar that fills up and empties out and i highlighted it with some yellow dots. You are saying that you cant reduce throttle...the thing that i have pointed out with the white arrow?

http://i.imgur.com/tyYRjqM.jpg

 

[wargwargwarg]

Can you record what you are talking about with FRAPS or Bandicam?

Here's my first video capture ever..so excuse it not showing precisely the "thing". It's 2min long. Quality is 50% so as not to be a very big file.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0hHT3r___gxdl8wcGEtRWwtcms



First minute or so, cautious approach at some 50% throttle (you can jump to about half, nothing missed), then saw another ship on faster approach, accelerated to its speed or about there and started "sliding" to the end (throttle 0 - 10%). The big speed bar increases to that 70% I mentioned and stays there.


Seeing this again and again, I have to admit I've been decelerating all the time my throttle was low. The speed bar changed ranges so the increase in number of bars was still decelerating, creating the illusion the ship won't stop. Also, engine noise suggested increase in activity....come to think of it, in space ship doesn't stop if engine is cut off (it continues indefinitely) and to stop counter-thrust must be applied (and maybe that's what I hear - engine using full power on reverse).


I'm flying much by feel, gauging speed by variation of the target's orbit (because that should be represented linearly; numbers or a logarithmic scale are harder to interpret. Anyway, there is something weird with the orbit lines of the stations at least: they're not perfect circles viewed from different angles (tried to match them on screen with a glass rim - couldn't at close distances)


I have to say the weird behaviour was a false alarm... and, yes, I've been redlining it in my video to have what to show. OUPS!

 

[wargwargwarg]

The video link I've uploaded needs to be vetted by a moderator. So, not to loose the reasoning or wait for next year, here is my message without the link


Technically speaking, I've been decelerating all the time my throttle was low (speed number decreased) . The speed bar changed ranges so the increase in number of bars was still showing deceleration, creating the illusion the ship won't stop. Also, engine noise suggested increase in activity....come to think of it, in space ship doesn't stop if engine is cut off (it continues indefinately) and to stop counter-thrust must be applied (and maybe that's what I hear - engine using full power on reverse).


I have to say the weird behaviour was a false alarm. OUPS!

 

[FliesWithEyesClosed]

OK thats what i suspected you were talking about...

When the bar keeps going up and up the scale of the bars range is changing. Like if you've ever played generic flight sims you know how they have radar ranges that you can change to like say 120km, 80km, 60km, 40km, 20km and 10km? when you are engaging a target at long range you would switch to the 120km radar. But if you are fighting someone and they are at 13km you would switch to 20km range. You dont want to use the 120km radar range when fighting something that is 5-15km away. Because when you do that you lose fidelity, resolution or picture quality or whatever the technical term is. A similar thing is happening to your speed bar but its happening automatically.

Whats happening with ED's speed bar is it is automatically changing to a new speed range as you go from C to Mm and as your actual speed value gets lower. For example at 1:10 on your video clip you are at 1.00 C speed right? and it is taking up about 40% of the bar it looks like. Now go to about 1:30 - 1:33 and look at the bar again...you are now moving at 5-7Mm. The speed bar is now a little over 50%. At 1:10 at that exact moment the speed bars range is roughly 0 - 2.25 C with the bottom of the bar being 0 and the top of the bar being 2.25 C and you are sitting at 40-45% which is 1.00 C. And at 1:30 the speed bar is adjusting down and at that precise moment the range is 0 - 14 Mm/S with your current speed at about 6 Mm/S. The reason the changes are much more noticeable at lower speeds is because the digits are counting down much much faster when compared to your deceleration while you were still at C-speeds.

Think of what the bar would look like if it were able to stay contant and indicate speed all the way from 1200C or whatever max attainable SC speed is all the way down to 1Mm/S. The bar would move a lot at mid to high C-speeds but the closer and closer you get to low C-speeds and Mm/S speeds the slower the bar would be moving. The speed bar does not appear to have that same behavior in normal space...maybe to a small extent when you change engine pips. But in SC the bar itself will go bonkers so just ignore it. Pay attention to your throttle settings, the color that the throttle can change to and the actual speed readout at the very top of the bar and slightly to the left of it.