In case anyone missed it: FDEV Focused Feedback Thread re Cockpit Brightness

This thread was started by Fdev over in the News and Bulletins forums. I just wanted to make sure everyone was aware it existed. Link here:

 

Deleted member 182079

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Focused Feedback threads are all well and fine, but I honestly don't understand why they can't simply boot up Horizons and compare that with Odyssey - given they're the actual developer of both engine and game, surely they could easily come up with a comparison tool that'll show the same in-game scenario side by side in both engines?

Making the playerbase provide examples of what's wrong instead merely suggests they don't seem to see the issues themselves, relying on your customers to point out flaws that are obvious to the naked eye of anyone who is familiar enough with the game destroys any remaining amount of confidence I have in Frontier to sort this out in a satisfactory way.

"ThEy DoN't PlAy ThEiR oWn GaMe!!" is a tired trope at this stage, but when the shoe fits...
 
Focused Feedback threads are all well and fine, but I honestly don't understand why they can't simply boot up Horizons and compare that with Odyssey - given they're the actual developer of both engine and game, surely they could easily come up with a comparison tool that'll show the same in-game scenario side by side in both engines?

Making the playerbase provide examples of what's wrong instead merely suggests they don't seem to see the issues themselves, relying on your customers to point out flaws that are obvious to the naked eye of anyone who is familiar enough with the game destroys any remaining amount of confidence I have in Frontier to sort this out in a satisfactory way.

"ThEy DoN't PlAy ThEiR oWn GaMe!!" is a tired trope at this stage, but when the shoe fits...
I agree and was actually just going to say the same thing but just had a thought that maybe they need a big enough list of people complaining to show the money people it's worth putting time into fixing. I don't believe for a second that people working on this don't play the game.

But they're employees and them going "hey boss this could stand to get fixed" won't do anything. The money people don't care. They only care when enough of their cu$tomers can be seen making noise, THEN it's worth putting the money into fixing.
 
I agree and was actually just going to say the same thing but just had a thought that maybe they need a big enough list of people complaining to show the money people it's worth putting time into fixing. I don't believe for a second that people working on this don't play the game.

But they're employees and them going "hey boss this could stand to get fixed" won't do anything. The money people don't care. They only care when enough of their cu$tomers can be seen making noise, THEN it's worth putting the money into fixing.
I mean I wager this is correct considering that when Multicrew first launched and was almost unusable, they flat-out told the community they would only bother to fix it if people used it more.

But since no one could use it due to it being largely broken, FDev took that as a good reason to just abandon Multicrew.

No, adding a 4th seat does not count as revisiting multicrew since they didn't bother to fix the underlying issues with it.
 
I mean I wager this is correct considering that when Multicrew first launched and was almost unusable, they flat-out told the community they would only bother to fix it if people used it more.

But since no one could use it due to it being largely broken, FDev took that as a good reason to just abandon Multicrew.

No, adding a 4th seat does not count as revisiting multicrew since they didn't bother to fix the underlying issues with it.
I'm too new to know about such a dilemma but regarding the idea of multicrew, this game is in DIRE need of money sinks, and I would hire 2-3 more NPCs if they could actually just SIT in the bridge, high cost of it be damned. Like come on man, THAT's too much to ask???? Any game EVER that had NPC followers had them automatically get into the spare seat of a vehicle you were in.

Maybe we need to switch from whining about this to begging for FDEV to let us buy ARX STORE outfits for our NPC crews. That'll sure get the investors to demand we be able to see our NPC crew alright...
 

Deleted member 182079

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I'm too new to know about such a dilemma but regarding the idea of multicrew, this game is in DIRE need of money sinks, and I would hire 2-3 more NPCs if they could actually just SIT in the bridge, high cost of it be damned. Like come on man, THAT's too much to ask???? Any game EVER that had NPC followers had them automatically get into the spare seat of a vehicle you were in.

Maybe we need to switch from whining about this to begging for FDEV to let us buy ARX STORE outfits for our NPC crews. That'll sure get the investors to demand we be able to see our NPC crew alright...
After a while you see it everywhere - the MVP approach - in Apex taxis and in multicrew you can see NPCs in the co-pilot seats, but you can't plop your own NPC crew in there, simply just for 'show'. Is it too much to ask for? It's clearly possible.

And even regarding Arx store items - look at the Fleet Carriers and its associated cosmetics. Those are still the very same selection of items you could buy since FC launched, they never added new PJs or more importantly, new FC layouts. How long would it take to model a handful of new ones they could've sold for 5 digit Arx amounts? Same thing about cockpit customisation beyond bobbleheads - ship cockpit panel colour changes, HUD etc. Their omission isn't a big deal but from a business perspective this is all money left on the street, and I would've bought them - though that ship has sailed now for me either way.

To go back OT, you see it there as well - they had the lighting too dark at first (and either didn't notice, or didn't have enough time to refine it, not sure which is worse tbh), people rightfully complained, and they just increased brightness in a very unrefined way, often overshooting the target (the Krait cockpits in particular were horrible after the first pass), likely in the belief that "that'll do".

So seeing the feedback thread pop up made me raise both eyebrows - at this stage it almost feels like having to explain to a blind person what the colour blue looks like. What hope is there if the artists of the game don't know how their own game is supposed to look like from a coherent and realistic lighting perspective, and that they rely on the players (with as many opinions on the matter) to tell them this? I don't know.
 
After a while you see it everywhere - the MVP approach - in Apex taxis and in multicrew you can see NPCs in the co-pilot seats, but you can't plop your own NPC crew in there, simply just for 'show'. Is it too much to ask for? It's clearly possible.

And even regarding Arx store items - look at the Fleet Carriers and its associated cosmetics. Those are still the very same selection of items you could buy since FC launched, they never added new PJs or more importantly, new FC layouts. How long would it take to model a handful of new ones they could've sold for 5 digit Arx amounts? Same thing about cockpit customisation beyond bobbleheads - ship cockpit panel colour changes, HUD etc. Their omission isn't a big deal but from a business perspective this is all money left on the street, and I would've bought them - though that ship has sailed now for me either way.

To go back OT, you see it there as well - they had the lighting too dark at first (and either didn't notice, or didn't have enough time to refine it, not sure which is worse tbh), people rightfully complained, and they just increased brightness in a very unrefined way, often overshooting the target (the Krait cockpits in particular were horrible after the first pass), likely in the belief that "that'll do".

So seeing the feedback thread pop up made me raise both eyebrows - at this stage it almost feels like having to explain to a blind person what the colour blue looks like. What hope is there if the artists of the game don't know how their own game is supposed to look like from a coherent and realistic lighting perspective, and that they rely on the players (with as many opinions on the matter) to tell them this? I don't know.
I think its more along the lines that the lighting scheme and system itself is not capable of being fine tuned to each area- so that what looks good here looks bad elsewhere. What I think FD want is to find a generally accepted normal across the board and need as many POVs as possible to get it.
 

Deleted member 182079

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I think its more along the lines that the lighting scheme and system itself is not capable of being fine tuned to each area- so that what looks good here looks bad elsewhere. What I think FD want is to find a generally accepted normal across the board and need as many POVs as possible to get it.
If this is indeed the case, I wonder why they felt the need to change the lighting system as everything looks good already in Horizons - though I can already think of an answer in the form of them wanting to get the on-foot sections right first and foremost, but didn't really properly consider the rest of the game.

And it's not like the lighting on foot makes much sense either. I wish they hadn't changed everything at the same time (lighting, shaders, planet tech) and introduced each separately instead. Nothing seems to fit together right now, and while I played last night I observed a LOT of lighting inconsistencies (while in the cockpit only) that made me think "why don't I simply play this in Horizons instead?". The constant micro stutters even in space, and even with fps locked at 45fps just added insult to injury.
 
If this is indeed the case, I wonder why they felt the need to change the lighting system as everything looks good already in Horizons - though I can already think of an answer in the form of them wanting to get the on-foot sections right first and foremost, but didn't really properly consider the rest of the game.

And it's not like the lighting on foot makes much sense either. I wish they hadn't changed everything at the same time (lighting, shaders, planet tech) and introduced each separately instead. Nothing seems to fit together right now, and while I played last night I observed a LOT of lighting inconsistencies (while in the cockpit only) that made me think "why don't I simply play this in Horizons instead?".
Well I share the "why reinvent everything that works fine now?" too. I just think FD should have made EDO a massive, stuffed content patch for what exists rather than what they did.
 

Deleted member 182079

D
Well I share the "why reinvent everything that works fine now?" too. I just think FD should have made EDO a massive, stuffed content patch for what exists rather than what they did.
Yep - I know it's easy making armchair developer suggestions, but maybe leaving the planet tech on the Horizons platform and focusing on the rock scatter first would've been better... though I assume they probably go hand-in-hand with all the rest.

Suppose it's more difficult to sell a high-priced DLC that "merely" covers fleshing out existing sections of the game, but they could've thrown in new vehicles instead of the new planet tech, and release that separately as a free update later (given Horizons players get it for free anyways at some point, whether they like it or not!).

Would've could've should've 🤷‍♂️
 
Yep - I know it's easy making armchair developer suggestions, but maybe leaving the planet tech on the Horizons platform and focusing on the rock scatter first would've been better... though I assume they probably go hand-in-hand with all the rest.

Suppose it's more difficult to sell a high-priced DLC that "merely" covers fleshing out existing sections of the game, but they could've thrown in new vehicles instead of the new planet tech, and release that separately as a free update later (given Horizons players get it for free anyways at some point, whether they like it or not!).

Would've could've should've 🤷‍♂️
New ships, new land vehicles (which could do 90% of on foot stuff), radically expanded NPC crew, more PvE, Powerplay, CQC.

It would have unified the game, rather than simply tacking on something yet again.

#Sadface
 
New ships, new land vehicles (which could do 90% of on foot stuff), radically expanded NPC crew, more PvE, Powerplay, CQC.

It would have unified the game, rather than simply tacking on something yet again.

#Sadface
The thing that frustrates me the most about Odyssey is not all the bugs and performance and graphical issues (though they do annoy me!), it's how thread-bare and uninspired the new gameplay content is. EDO really does feel like a missed opportunity to add to, expand and improve upon existing gameplay loops and features. Instead, we got a very mediocre FPS, even more materials and engineer grind, and some scannable plants.
 
I think that modifying the Cobra engine may serve a purpose that's important to something other than Elite, and Odyssey subsidized that development.
You brutal cynic, you.

But yes, a big thing was made about cross pollination, and it seems that EDs stamen was well and truly rubbed for The Future™.
 
And even regarding Arx store items - look at the Fleet Carriers and its associated cosmetics. Those are still the very same selection of items you could buy since FC launched, they never added new PJs or more importantly, new FC layouts. How long would it take to model a handful of new ones they could've sold for 5 digit Arx amounts? Same thing about cockpit customisation beyond bobbleheads - ship cockpit panel colour changes, HUD etc. Their omission isn't a big deal but from a business perspective this is all money left on the street, and I would've bought them
Guess they don't want us to think they are greedy ;)
 
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