Incentivizing Starting in Multiplayer

[Matthiby]

Given that it will be less of a risk* to start in the Solo Online mode than in Multiplayer, it occurs to me that the accepted route into ED in the current set-up will be for the majority to start in solo then shift across when they have sufficient credits for a decent ship and equipment. I'm interested to know what Frontier have planned to ensure plenty of people take the plunge with me and start in a dangerous universe with just a sidewinder and 1000 cr.

*I'm sure that the solo version will have plenty of risk, but the MP mode will have plenty of risk plus all you crazy guys

 

[Hamerstein]

I'd consider formulating how much extra risk is being taken by players who play exclusively MP all over exclusively SO before trying to incentivise a particular play style.

Playing Devil's Advocate. What is the proof that MP all is going to provide more risk? There is an argument for Players opposing other players increasing the risk, but that is balanced by the availability of players to assist against such occurrences.

The other element I'd consider is the actual player impact on a game that has such a massive play area. Compared to the impact that NPCs will have on your game, the player input appears to be minimal.

 

[Matthiby]

I'd consider formulating how much extra risk is being taken by players who play exclusively MP all over exclusively SO before trying to incentivise a particular play style.

Hey Hamer, thanks for the reply

I'm talking specifically here about starting in multiplayer, rather than playing exclusively in MP. The majority of modern players will consult their Wisden's Almanac of Elite (the forums/wiki etc.) and be told that the MP environment is much more dangerous. I've heard that many people are concerned about all the gankers and griefers in ED, so wouldn't it make more sense for me to play in SO until I have a decent set-up?

 

[Clifford]

(old post)

 

[Hamerstein]

Hey Hamer, thanks for the reply

I'm talking specifically here about starting in multiplayer, rather than playing exclusively in MP. The majority of modern players will consult their Wisden's Almanac of Elite (the forums/wiki etc.) and be told that the MP environment is much more dangerous. I've heard a lot about all the gankers and griefers in ED, so wouldn't it make more sense for me to play in SO until I have a decent set-up?

Hey Matt, you're welcome

I consider the progression route that a player takes is one of personal choice. I agree that the instinctive response for new players is likely to be that MP is more dangerous than SP. But that is a perception, not necessarily a fact. By offering incentives for starting in MP (from FDs perspective) provides an affirmation that this perception is correct. Which is why I'd expect a quantitative analysis that proves that assumption, before awarding a quantitative incentive for adopting a play style.

Rewarding unproven difficulty opens a box that isn't easy to shut again.

 

[MarcusReed]

Hey Hamer, thanks for the reply

I'm talking specifically here about starting in multiplayer, rather than playing exclusively in MP. The majority of modern players will consult their Wisden's Almanac of Elite (the forums/wiki etc.) and be told that the MP environment is much more dangerous. I've heard that many people are concerned about all the gankers and griefers in ED, so wouldn't it make more sense for me to play in SO until I have a decent set-up?

Not sure what the difference would be, if a player starts from scratch in the mp or solo. You will see them eventually so I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[Matthiby]

I don't think Frontier needs to do, or should do , anything.
It absolutely makes very little difference.
It doesn't "break" the game.

I really don't understand why the online players are having such a heartburn about nothing.
The whole point early on was to allow people to play the way they wanted to (offline, solo online, private groups online, or open). Now , why does everyone feel the "need" to go put up barriers ("incentives") to try and stop it?

It's purely an issue to me because I think that as things stand, the vast majority of players will be funneled into a solely solo experience for the first days/weeks/months of their ED existence, simply because that is the so-called "easiest" path to gain a set-up they don't feel vulnerable in. This will lead to an absence of lower-end ships in the MP game.

I've said before if this how the game will be, I will have to take my lumps and accept it. I do genuinely feel it will be an issue that won't go away though, but other than this thread and its subsequent replies, I promise I won't bother the forum about my thoughts on it. I hope I haven't come across as anything as friendly and open-minded, as I am as genuinely passionate about Elite as I was when I was 8 years old.

 

[Adept]

I doubt most will go to solo play, nor do I think the All group will be significantly more dangerous. Griefers will try, and then either learn their lesson, leave for other games or end up hellbanned.

PC vs PC piracy and warfare will happen, and it will be fun, if Frontier balance it right.

 

[chaseydog]

Looked at from another angle it sounds like the OP is saying that someone who starts playing MP will need a crutch to remain competitive with someone who starts SP and then moves over to MP, or perhaps I'm reading something into the OPs statement that was unintended. It seems to me that any advantage gained by going SP/MP rather than strait into MP would be fairly short lived.

 

[Matthiby]

I doubt most will go to solo play, nor do I think the All group will be significantly more dangerous. Griefers will try, and then either learn their lesson, leave for other games or end up hellbanned.

PC vs PC piracy and warfare will happen, and it will be fun, if Frontier balance it right.

Hey Adept, always enjoy your posts so thanks on commenting on mine

Maybe I'm being naive or overly optimistic, but from what I've seen of the Elite community on the forums here and ingame, I'm convinced that griefing (as in repeated pestering of a single player or group) and ganking (destroying a player in a much smaller ship) so far are exceptionally rare issues, so I for one will plunge into MP from the start. My worry is that such PvP problems have been so greatly exaggerated that it will put off many people from doing the same.

 

[Jayce]

I really don't understand why the online players are having such a heartburn about nothing.

Because I signed up for:

"Elite: Dangerous is the spectacular new sequel in the Elite series of games.

Head for the stars, take a ship and trade, bounty-hunt, pirate or assassinate your way across the galaxy in this massively multiplayer online space adventure"

But this "nothing" that is apparently giving me heartburn is exactly what I've received; nothing. I've had ZERO meaningful player interactions. Even the combat zones were empty of real players. Sometimes I see a hollow blip on my radar, and think to myself "hey, there is actually another player over there" but that's the end of it.

This whole idea of psychotic griefer serial killers running around is totally false... But the boring emptiness and irrelevancy of multiplayer is a legitimate issue.

 

[Matthiby]

Before this descends into more arguing about the merits/demerits of PvPing, can I please encourage people to answer the question in my OP.

Why should anybody START the game in MP rather than SO?

 

[Hamerstein]

Before this descends into more arguing about the merits/demerits of PvPing, can I please encourage people to answer the question in my OP.

Why should anybody START the game in MP rather than SO?

It's too early to answer that question.

Right now, there is very little difference between the two states, as Jayce observes, player interactions are minimal at best in the MP.

We can reasonably expect FD to encourage more interaction, being able to see and interact with other players in SC is an obvious omission at present. By their own admission much of the inter-player gameplay is absent for now, but will be introduced.

It's probably better to ask this question again once ED is closer to being feature complete and we can make an informed assessment.

 

[CaptainKremmen]

Given that it will be less of a risk* to start in the Solo Online mode than in Multiplayer, it occurs to me that the accepted route into ED in the current set-up will be for the majority to start in solo then shift across when they have sufficient credits for a decent ship and equipment. I'm interested to know what Frontier have planned to ensure plenty of people take the plunge with me and start in a dangerous universe with just a sidewinder and 1000 cr.

*I'm sure that the solo version will have plenty of risk, but the MP mode will have plenty of risk plus all you crazy guys

I disagree that MP will be more "risky" than single player. And not just for the reason that Space Is Big, and PCs will be spread out.

No, it's simpler than that.


MP means you can travel in pairs. Do that, and you will ALWAYS be "Two Players Against..." every NPC situation.

You'll have comms. You'll focus fire. You'll prioritise. You'll coordinate. You'll manage risk.


Sure, you'll be able to hire an NPC wingman if you want, but two smart humans on comms is a formidable thing.


I find it VERY hard to believe there will be other factors that skew risk SO much that it invalidates the simple, yet incredibly powerful, feature of co-operative play.

So OP, I don't believe that there is any hard evidence, or even reasonable grounds to expect, MP to be "risky" and SP to be "safe".


(For the thousandth time, I'm saying this. On to the next thread about MP being "full of danger" and SP being "full of safe")


[edit]...

Before this descends into more arguing about the merits/demerits of PvPing, can I please encourage people to answer the question in my OP.

Why should anybody START the game in MP rather than SO?

Well, your opening line was ,"Given that it will be less of a risk* to start in the Solo Online mode than in Multiplayer,...", and in my opinion it's not a valid basis to work from. I'm not sure it's worthwhile even going past it, to be honest.


It would be like me posting, "Given that all gimballed weapons are more deadly than fixed weapons, what can we do to encourage people to use fixed weapons?". I wouldn't expect anyone to delve into how to "encourage people to use fixed weapons"!

 

[Clifford]

(old post)

 

[Captain N]

Playing Devil's Advocate. What is the proof that MP all is going to provide more risk? There is an argument for Players opposing other players increasing the risk, but that is balanced by the availability of players to assist against such occurrences.

I'll also play some Devil's Advocate and point out that private groups let you have the benefit of assistance of other players without the risk of PvP.

 

[SAB380]

Depends whether your playing for risk/excitement or to relax. Neither is right or wrong.

I thought I'd try solo online for the first time and quite enjoyed the old school relaxed feel ...its like playing Frontier again.

But I think playing online multiplayer should perhaps have its own reward. Invisible in game, but something like a 10-20% uplift on rewards for missions and bounties, etc....

Give people the choice and little incentive to pick the harder one.

 

[Matthiby]

Please, guys! I really don't want this thread to descend into the reductive, circular arguments regurgitated in a thousand other threads about PvP. This is not about that.

I am solely interested in ways Frontier might encourage players to start in MP rather than taking the easier route and starting in SO.

At least Cap'n Krem has contributed by stating his opinion that SO will not be easier, which is a start of some discussion. It's a point I disagree with, but I hope in an informed and friendly manner:

I honestly doubt that there is any AI on the planet that can match the potential wiles and cunning of a human player, and countless other gaming experiences have taught us that there will be areas in all games that a solo human player can farm to their heart's content in relative comfort. As this content will be noticeably easier to handle without human interference, why would anybody choose to start in MP except for roleplaying reasons?

EDIT: Thanks SAB for engaging with the issue

 

[Clifford]

(old post)

 

[Hamerstein]

I'll also play some Devil's Advocate and point out that private groups let you have the benefit of assistance of other players without the risk of PvP.

That's a valid point.

Which leads to the conclusion that FD aren't really concerned with making ED competitively balanced, or they have something up their sleeves already to address balance between different modes of play.