Incentivizing Starting in Multiplayer

[Matthiby]

Why is this of concern, unless you just want to use them as easytargets?

Not at all, Snow, but here my reasoning truly does go off into absolute conjecture:

IF the vast majority of people are advised that it is better to start in Solo Online, and IF they spend the next few days/weeks grinding to earn what they have been told is a "decent" starting set-up to bring into the MP, with the result that there is practically no-one in MP in sidewinders. In that case, therefore, would it not make more sense to offer new MP players the choice of, say, a Viper for combat or a Lakon-6 for trade so they can enter the MP game straightaway?

I don't like that solution either, but there is a logic to it.

 

[Viajero]

I don't like that solution either, but there is a logic to it.

Honestly... no point in discussing any solutions simply because we do not know if we have an issue in our hands at all yet.

Trying to discuss solutions on the basis of "IF" statements is equally void of any value because it does not advance an inch the confirmation, or lack thereof, of a problem.

Steer the conversation to see how we can actually confirm and measure the problem (if any) and then we can go places, methinks.

 

[KING5TON]

You seemed to have ignored the rest of my post?

You also seem to assume that playing Solo/Private will offer an in-game development advantage of some kind to those players over All mode players.

I can understand that you may fear that can be the case due to the added PVP risk in the All mode, but the truth is we do not know yet if that is the case at all.

It may very well be that there is no in-game development advantage at all for Solo/Private, or that if there is that the difference in development terms is not meaningful enough to represent any real impact to the game.

You just need to measure the effect first to be sure. Furthermore, not only to be sure but also to be able to propose appropriate solutions and measures commensurate to the scale of the problem (if any).

Measure first, discuss later?

I'll give you a perfect example of an instance where it is "easier" in SP compared to MP now that will most probably carry over to the full game.

Go to the federal distress call in SP and MP.
In SP how many other players are you competing against for kills?

The same pilot in SP will gain a lot more money in bounties than a player in MP can due to competition of kills.

Add in the fact that you may also encounter enemy players that are 100 time more deadly than AI and may cause you to loose all progress you made.

How many Enemy players do you run the risk of facing in SP?

 

[Mephane]

I'll give you a perfect example of an instance where it is "easier" in SP compared to MP now that will most probably carry over to the full game.

Go to the federal distress call in SP and MP.
In SP how many other players are you competing against for kills?

The same pilot in SP will gain a lot more money in bounties than a player in MP can due to competition of kills.

Add in the fact that you may also encounter enemy players that are 100 time more deadly than AI and may cause you to loose all progress you made.

How many Enemy players do you run the risk of facing in SP?

The thing is, we are still limited to this small bubble. When the galaxy is finally opened, you can just find a spot for yourself, too, without ever switching to Solo. It is therefore not a question of Solo vs Open Play.

For example, even now, I've made most of my money with courier missions in a Hauler, then a Cobra, both entirely unarmed. That would lead me to systems all over the place, and it could happen that I would play an hour without even seeing another player. Switching to Solo would not have provided me with any form of advantage that isn't also to be had in Open Play.

 

[Viajero]

The thing is, we are still limited to this small bubble. When the galaxy is finally opened, you can just find a spot for yourself, too, without ever switching to Solo. It is therefore not a question of Solo vs Open Play.

For example, even now, I've made most of my money with courier missions in a Hauler, then a Cobra, both entirely unarmed. That would lead me to systems all over the plays, and it could happen that I would play an hour without even seeing another player. Switching to Solo would not have provided me with any form of advantage that isn't also to be had in Open Play.

Exactly. But even in this limited bubble I have spent hours on end at the LP 98-132 star beacon killing NPC for gold cannisters without a single PC showing up. And that for one of the most popular hunting grounds so far.

There are so many examples and counter examples that this kind of discussion suddenly becomes an "I say, you say" pretty fast. In other words, personal bias and especulation.

The beauty of a 400 billion star galaxy is that it suddenly opens up the way for FD to propose innovative ways to handle an MMO, such as the different switchable game modes. I think is best to let them deploy it and then we can see if it works or not.

I much rather focus these efforts, if you think there may really be an issue, in finding/proposing a way to actually be able to measure the potential problem and then propose devs to consider using it for balancing purposes if deemed necessary. You may very well be surprised that there is no issue at all in the end. And if there is, so be it. But either way you need to prove it with factual data, especially if you want to propose appropriate solutions.

I can understand the concern, and even sympathize, but as I said there is still no data whatsoever yet to confirm there is or will be any issue in the Solo/Private vs All mode. All there is at the moment is lots of preconceived ideas and bias.

All respectable as opinions go but without data to back those up is going to be a very repetitive and circular discussion I am afraid.

 

[DarthVain]

I don't think Frontier needs to do, or should do , anything.
It absolutely makes very little difference.
It doesn't "break" the game.

I really don't understand why the online players are having such a heartburn about nothing.
The whole point early on was to allow people to play the way they wanted to (offline, solo online, private groups online, or open). Now , why does everyone feel the "need" to go put up barriers ("incentives") to try and stop it?

Agree entirely.

 

[Razorwire]

Given that it will be less of a risk to start in the Solo Online mode than in Multiplayer...

I don't believe that is a given.

It doesn't matter what the capability/threat of the NPCs is, they'll exist in both modes.
I think in MP I'm far more likely to find a player to team up with against the NPCs and hostile players, than I am to encounter a ganker while solo.

I think MP is the 'easy mode', and no incentives are therefore neccesary.

Personally, I'll be doing MP all-group or Ironman, with friends against mostly NPCs, so the question is kinda moot.

 

[CaptainKremmen]

Hi Matthiby.

Are you actually playing Elite: Dangerous?


I ask because I recently got involved in extremely long and involving forum discussion about performance driving and on-track vehicle handling...

...only to find out (eventually) that the person who started the whole thread hadn't actually done any track driving at all. It was all theoretical discussion to them, based wholly on what they had read, and what people had told them about it.

Knowing this at the start would have allowed contributors - including me - to reframe the discussion accordingly. I'm not saying we wouldn't have bothered having it... try and stop us, lol... just that it would have evolved very differently had we known that from the start.

 

[Bad_Wolf]

Hi Matthiby.

Are you actually playing Elite: Dangerous?.

You owe me a new keyboard and monitor buddy.... Coffee + Electronics = Bad

 

[OldSalt]

I don't think Frontier needs to do, or should do , anything.
It absolutely makes very little difference.
It doesn't "break" the game.

I really don't understand why the online players are having such a heartburn about nothing.
The whole point early on was to allow people to play the way they wanted to (offline, solo online, private groups online, or open). Now , why does everyone feel the "need" to go put up barriers ("incentives") to try and stop it?

This is my view entirely. In addition to this I can't really get comfortable with other players seeking to manipulate how others enjoy the game on the basis that it would suit their own preferred style of play. The massive multiplayer environment advertised by FD will be there but that doesn't mean there shouldn't be other ways for play it.

When the main topic on these forums was griefing there were too many posts to remember by people who defended their right to interact with other players pretty much as they wished and that it was part and parcel of the experience that the game provided, the problem was a lot of that interaction involved preventing someone else enjoying ED or put simply being a Pratt for the sake of being one. The irony is that much of that same segment of the player base is now the most vocal in expressing their concern/ disappointment now that other players have choices that do not suit them. Karma can be funny like that.

I think that the game mode choices are fine. There are modes available to suit just about anyone who wishes to play the game and ultimately the success or failure of ED will depend on how many people buy it and continue to play it. The basic concept has been established, if a player does not want to play the game the way another player would prefer they do not have to. As to new players starting playing in multiplayer I am sure some will but that doesn't mean everyone should be forced to.

 

[CaptainKremmen]

You owe me a new keyboard and monitor buddy.... Coffee + Electronics = Bad

I have that effect on people. Just normally it's vomit.

 

[Reconcilliation]

If half this forum had their way, multiplayer would consist solely of people you've whitelisted, and if any of them ever shot you they would get instantly kickbanned from your instance.

 

[Arkantes]

As for the fairness argument, really it's completely moot. For instance there will be no fairness between a player that started from day one on release, and a newbie that joined six months later. Even after the wipe right after release, us beta testers will have a massive advantage over anyone new joining, even if we all start with exactly the same gear.

And seriously, you guys are going to have a seizure the day Frontier starts selling credits. Don't kid yourself, we all know it's going to come sooner or later.

 

[MrBungle]

Not seeing why a 'punitive' approach needs to be taken against people who choose to play solo, or whether people need to be 'forced' to play in a manner against their will, regardless of their preferred style of play.