Increase credit rewards

[matemaster]

With current NPC's the safest way of making some credits is bounty hunting in high RES with very agile ship like viper, vulture and ofc with no cargo and careful selection of targets and also exploiting the NPC's that are currently engaged by sec. forces

Trading and mining is extremly dangerous now so I think in current situation hauling missions, mining missions and commodities should receive 100% buff on rewards and sell prices
Because there is no point if I can make 6mil/h, if there is high probability that I lose 24mil on insurance in the proccess.

Or reduce the insurance cost.
The risk vs reward is extremely out of ballance now when flying expensive ship.

 

[FX2K]

And here is me thinking 1 mil per hour was good.. If I stuck at it, which I don't.
I have never looked at earnings in ED in a per hour way, ever. I just do what I find fun or I'm in the mood for that night.. sometimes, I make nothing.

Edit: The insurance (imo) is a bit high though... for me at least.
It takes me a long time to earn enough for a single rebuy.. unlike a lot of commanders who frequent hazres sites, something my skill level won't allow for.
So a death for me is a huge tragedy and potential of losing many many hours of progress.. although I do fly what I can afford to at least to rebuy once or twice.

 

[Han Brannigan]

Trading and mining is extremly dangerous now

Wrong.

 

[Lunchmoney]

With current NPC's...

Haven't FD said they are reviewing the AI?


Plus I see you have mastered the comma so why not let the full stop enter your posts? <-- note cheeky smiley that is indicative of an amusing comment that is not intended to be taken as an insult. I feel I must write this as some forum users do take umbrage at the slightest issue.

 

[matemaster]

And here is me thinking 1 mil per hour was good.. If I stuck at it, which I don't.
I have never looked at earnings in ED in a per hour way, ever. I just do what I find fun or I'm in the mood for that night.. sometimes, I make nothing.

... and then one day you will respawn in sidewinder
dont get me wrong I used to play that way before 2.1 But after 2.1 I lost 40mil allready

 

[Cynaqq]

With current NPC's the safest way of making some credits is bounty hunting in high RES with very agile ship like viper, vulture and ofc with no cargo and careful selection of targets and also exploiting the NPC's that are currently engaged by sec. forces

Trading and mining is extremly dangerous now so I think in current situation hauling missions, mining missions and commodities should receive 100% buff on rewards and sell prices
Because there is no point if I can make 6mil/h, if there is high probability that I lose 24mil on insurance in the proccess.

Or reduce the insurance cost.
The risk vs reward is extremely out of ballance now when flying expensive ship.

Your numbers sound way off.

If I trade in my conda in a well known loop (found through eddb), without trading slaves I make about 1.2 mil to 1.5 mil in a round trip. This is with 436 t cargo space and two jumps each way. My ship insurance is about 5 mil and the cargo is another 5 mil give or take.

So, I'm looking at a loss of 10 mil at a time, which is while not negligible, isn't nearly 24 mil. Also, if everything go alright, I'll make more than 4 round trips an hour, which brings my income higher than 6 mil and hour.

If you are trading in a smaller ship, it's a given you'll make a smaller amount than 6 mil an hour but your insurance and cargo value will be a lot smaller too.

 

[FX2K]

... and then one day you will respawn in sidewinder
dont get me wrong I used to play that way before 2.1 But after 2.1 I lost 40mil allready

When 2.1 first hit, yeah, I lost my python and 6 mill pretty quickly and was absolutely gutted, although could afford the rebuy + 1 more.
At that point I sold a few bits off the ship and kitted out a vulture to be safe (and cheaper) but I lost the ability to do what I enjoy.

Back in my python since the server side changes and it's not been so bad, a few hull repairs here and there but I managed to survive on my trade runs so far.
If only insurance wasn't so damn expensive... I think that could do with a small tweak, but that's just my opinion. I avoid combat because I can't afford it

 

[Maxmilian Czhilli]

With current NPC's the safest way of making some credits is bounty hunting in high RES with very agile ship like viper, vulture and ofc with no cargo and careful selection of targets and also exploiting the NPC's that are currently engaged by sec. forces

Trading and mining is extremly dangerous now so I think in current situation hauling missions, mining missions and commodities should receive 100% buff on rewards and sell prices
Because there is no point if I can make 6mil/h, if there is high probability that I lose 24mil on insurance in the proccess
or reduce the insurance cost.
The risk vs reward is extremely out of ballance now when flying expensive ship.

I get that some players gain most of their in game satisfaction from seeing measures such as credit balance increase as quickly as possible. Personally I find that a bit sad.

There are plenty of players whose main measure is fun per hour. We are not looking for the safest way of making credits. We want challenge and excitement. Doing risky things makes the game more compelling.

There seem to be to opposing camps in Elite Dangerous: Those who want the Elite (the status of ranks, lots of credits and shiny ships) and those that want the Dangerous.

 

[EValve]

Your numbers sound way off.

If I trade in my conda in a well known loop (found through eddb), without trading slaves I make about 1.2 mil to 1.5 mil in a round trip. This is with 436 t cargo space and two jumps each way. My ship insurance is about 5 mil and the cargo is another 5 mil give or take.

So, I'm looking at a loss of 10 mil at a time, which is while not negligible, isn't nearly 24 mil. Also, if everything go alright, I'll make more than 4 round trips an hour, which brings my income higher than 6 mil and hour.

If you are trading in a smaller ship, it's a given you'll make a smaller amount than 6 mil an hour but your insurance and cargo value will be a lot smaller too.

His numbers are not off, if not quite shy.

ICutter, only costs me 18 mil in rebuy + the cargo add another 10 mil. So far every trading route I've tried via EDDB was farmed when I got there and the numbers were completely off. At most I'm looking at 3 mil on a round trip. Meaning I'll have to go through 9 round trips to JUST cover a rebuy. I'm expert in combat rank, but I get interdicted by Elite Anaconda's A LOT. Lost a few ships already. Since 2.1 launch I'm deep in the negative. So yup. I've been doing a lot of missions which don't pay very well at lower tiers of rep, don't add nor remotely fill your cargo hold. And now I've tried going to Ceos with my ICutter to get some trading missions not Smuggling missions. Which albeit much more profitable so far, still isn't utterly amazing for the cr/ton...

 

[matemaster]

There seem to be to opposing camps in Elite Dangerous: Those who want the Elite (the status of ranks, lots of credits and shiny ships) and those that want the Dangerous.

If you want the dangerous, go ahead and try mining in haz RES

 

[Moses Lanknau]

agreed, but the ordinary (no mission) trading seems quite save for me, doing arround 1.2k per cargo unit per a single jump ... 120 cargo e.g on an asp explorer = 150k profit, e.g. Resonating Separators from Finteno to Hu Jona (23.5 LJ + 100 Ls) and Beryllium back (23.5 LJ + 22 Ls) do another 125k ... way more than 1000 trades and no npc iterceptetion happened ... of cause u have to please the local npc factions a bit ...

 

[Crusina Luachra]

hauling missions, mining missions and commodities should receive 100% buff on rewards and sell prices
Because there is no point if I can make 6mil/h, if there is high probability that I lose 24mil on insurance in the proccess.

There is a reason why you people are posting on a forum and not working in game development.

 

[Han Brannigan]

If you want the dangerous, go ahead and try mining in haz RES

The dangerous should be present no matter what you do.

 

[Moses Lanknau]

and if the payout is just high enough, virtually everyone wants the dangerous things ... thats what he talks about, i was shocked how dangerous some missions are, having virtually no time to react after being intercepted, getting blown up to dust within seconds ...

 

[FX2K]

There seem to be to opposing camps in Elite Dangerous: Those who want the Elite (the status of ranks, lots of credits and shiny ships) and those that want the Dangerous.

Me, I am fine with the slow step up between ships / credits etc... In fact, I think it should take a long time to get a bigger ship / multiple ships with decent modules.

But, I am not so fine with the sudden massive loss incurred by a single death, I never have been since the game was released, which in turn I think has affected how I play / approach the game.
I think that if insurance was lower (not stupidly, but more affordable) a lot of issues surrounding cr/h and AI difficulty wouldn't be so much of an issue.

If I got interdicted and blown to smithereens, I wouldn't mind so much losing my current mission status, some credits and the inconvenience of such.. etc, but as it stands, I lose far too much, amounting to many many hours worth of gameplay.

I have never visited a hazres, I don't do smuggling missions or any combat based missions because of the insurance factor alone.
So I don't think income needs any adjustments... but I do think insurance does (and always have felt that way).

Just to add to this, those who are 'hardcore' likely don't have any credit issues.. so the insurance, to them.. is meaningless anyway.
But those of us who play a bit more causal, its brutal. Not to mention, different players have different rates.. wish I was on the lower one

 

[Cynaqq]

His numbers are not off, if not quite shy.

ICutter, only costs me 18 mil in rebuy + the cargo add another 10 mil. So far every trading route I've tried via EDDB was farmed when I got there and the numbers were completely off. At most I'm looking at 3 mil on a round trip. Meaning I'll have to go through 9 round trips to JUST cover a rebuy. I'm expert in combat rank, but I get interdicted by Elite Anaconda's A LOT. Lost a few ships already. Since 2.1 launch I'm deep in the negative. So yup. I've been doing a lot of missions which don't pay very well at lower tiers of rep, don't add nor remotely fill your cargo hold. And now I've tried going to Ceos with my ICutter to get some trading missions not Smuggling missions. Which albeit much more profitable so far, still isn't utterly amazing for the cr/ton...

OP's and your numbers are viable for a very specific circumstance, trading in a cutter.
Which means trading in a conda or T9 is a much better choice now in terms of risk vs reward. Why insist on trading in a cutter?

You can say 'but I want to trade in whatever ship I like and want it to be safe and profitable' but it doesn't exactly work like that. I used to bounty hunt in a conda but now I do it in my much more trustworthy and maneuverable FAS.

 

[Maxmilian Czhilli]

Me, I am fine with the slow step up between ships / credits etc... In fact, I think it should take a long time to get a bigger ship / multiple ships with decent modules.

But, I am not so fine with the sudden massive loss incurred by a single death, I never have been since the game was released, which in turn I think has affected how I play / approach the game.
I think that if insurance was lower (not stupidly, but more affordable) a lot of issues surrounding cr/h and AI difficulty wouldn't be so much of an issue.

If I got interdicted and blown to smithereens, I wouldn't mind so much losing my current mission status, some credits and the inconvenience of such.. etc, but as it stands, I lose far too much, amounting to many many hours worth of gameplay.

I have never visited a hazres, I don't do smuggling missions or any combat based missions because of the insurance factor alone.
So I don't think income needs any adjustments... but I do think insurance does (and always have felt that way).

There is a really easy way of altering your risk profile to one that is more comfortable for you. Fly a cheaper ship and maintain a higher reserve of liquid credits. This also slows down the ship/module progress and seems to be something you would be fine with.

The reason so many players are risk averse is because they have invested so heavily into their ships that a couple of losses can put them on the edge of financial ruin. That risk can be invigorating for some, but for far too many the danger restricts their gameplay. The trick is to find a healthy balance where you feel able to do exciting things in game and able to handle the losses that will come your way.

I understand not wanting to loose your ship. But unless you test yourself you won't understand the risks properly and hamper your development as a pilot.

 

[FX2K]

There is a really easy way of altering your risk profile to one that is more comfortable for you. Fly a cheaper ship and have maintain a higher reserve of liquid credits. This also slows down the ship/module progress and seems to be something you would be fine with.

The reason so many players are risk averse is because they have invested so heavily into their ships that a couple of losses can put them on the edge of financial ruin. That risk can be invigorating for some, but for far too many the danger restricts their gameplay. The trick is to find a healthy balance where you feel able to do exciting things in game and able to handle the losses that will come your way.

I understand not wanting to loose your ship. But unless you test yourself you won't understand the risks properly and hamper your development as a pilot.

I get that, I am flying a python at the moment for trade / trade mission running, it is kitted out quite well which allows me to survive the interdictions etc (at my skill level, which is low)
I already made the mistake of trying an anaconda, pushing the boundaries of what I could / couldn't afford, so downgraded (a while back now) to ease the pain somewhat.. losing $$ in the process.
It has taken me 2 years already to get to the python, which I absolutely love flying and allows me to take on the missions I get at my station, which are usually things like.. take 120 units of X to Y for 200,00cr etc

Aside from a T6 (I hate it) what ship would you recommend for such hauling jobs that costs less than 6m to rebuy.. and one that allows me to occasionally defend myself / successfully run and also dock at outposts.

Personally, I don't think dropping the insurance costs a bit would have any negative effects. It's still a loss, but perhaps not always a crippling one.
Looking at the wiki, there are 3 insurance brackets at the moment.. and those with the lowest also get discount at jameson (which I don't) dropping it further.. all I'm asking for is a bit of that same discount, others are benefiting from already and yeah, I know its because they backed the game etc.

Discounted ships = less insurance: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=143345
Insurance costs (not sure on accuracy): http://elite-dangerous.wikia.com/wiki/Insurance_costs

 

[EValve]

OP's and your numbers are viable for a very specific circumstance, trading in a cutter.
Which means trading in a conda or T9 is a much better choice now in terms of risk vs reward. Why insist on trading in a cutter?

You can say 'but I want to trade in whatever ship I like and want it to be safe and profitable' but it doesn't exactly work like that. I used to bounty hunt in a conda but now I do it in my much more trustworthy and maneuverable FAS.

Please do explain me what would differ in a conda or a t9? Sure the insurance lowers, so does the income. Shouldn't the Risk vs reward scale appropriately? And why on earth should I put the cutter to dust when it's literally the best trader out there with a trade-off of having deficiencies in other areas?
If you deem it unsuited for trading then what's left? Seriously.

Either way, Elite Conda's will still pop-up.

My issue isn't with overall profits there's various ways to make more profit than a cutter. It's balancing some of these professions out. Piracy, mission trading, mining heck even exploring. One of them in particular doesn't even cover the repairs after a tough fight. Granted you even survive.

Unlike HighSec RES farming there's quite some risk involved. And if you don't balance out these professions so that they can at-least have a decent upkeep and profit margin then there's strictly no point in doing them other than Material farming. Which would set the Engineers as an End-game goal instead of a Stop along the way through your own trail.

 

[RoliePolie]

And here is me thinking 1 mil per hour was good.. If I stuck at it, which I don't.
I have never looked at earnings in ED in a per hour way, ever. I just do what I find fun or I'm in the mood for that night.. sometimes, I make nothing.

Edit: The insurance (imo) is a bit high though... for me at least.
It takes me a long time to earn enough for a single rebuy.. unlike a lot of commanders who frequent hazres sites, something my skill level won't allow for.
So a death for me is a huge tragedy and potential of losing many many hours of progress.. although I do fly what I can afford to at least to rebuy once or twice.

I think that if you're making 1 million an hour you're spending your time enjoying the game instead of trying to make money (and this is fine, I'm not saying this in a bad way). The problem with this is that if you were ever to decide you wanted to fly a large ship, you'd be grinding for 1000 hours if you stuck at the 1mil/hour rate you find fun which for a paid game seems excessive.

I get that some players gain most of their in game satisfaction from seeing measures such as credit balance increase as quickly as possible. Personally I find that a bit sad.

There are plenty of players whose main measure is fun per hour. We are not looking for the safest way of making credits. We want challenge and excitement. Doing risky things makes the game more compelling.

There seem to be to opposing camps in Elite Dangerous: Those who want the Elite (the status of ranks, lots of credits and shiny ships) and those that want the Dangerous.

True, but currently the game's not very rewarding for those that want Elite. I'm not even in the game to get Elite and I don't find the super long grind rewarding. I just want to fly the ships I want in a game I paid for without having to grind as much as I would expect in a free-to-play game where you unlock things.