Increase log out timer

[OamodSias]

Even though the definition of a combat log is the ungraceful exit of the game in order to avoid "defeat, destruction and damage" some players are now using this timer to their advantage; they are hiding behind FD's implementation of the current timer and using it as a "legal" way to get out of "defeat, destruction and damage." Graceful or not, both actions amount to the same thing, and are thus ultimately the same thing: combat logging.

Suggestion: Increase the log out timer, from 15 seconds to 1 minute.
Alternative Suggestion: Reset the timer as soon as you are hit.

Feedback/debate welcome.
Keep it clean please.
Keep it to the topic, don't move it to the Open/Solo debate as it's not one.

Thanks.

 

[xondk]

Either increasing it or simply make it reset on taking damage would solve the problem.

 

[Roybe]

The devs should look into this.

The regular log out is not considered a combat log...at least by the devs and their rules. Obviously, there are players that disagree. Partly because there is no discernible text that Player x has logged out...it looks like a combat log. This is why reporting is necessary! No one can tell if there was a 'real' combat log...or not. If a player is logging out, shouldn't a timer start on the Player X's screen stating 'player Y is in the process of leaving the game...you'd better get busy'?

Most of us assume that by the time a person waits for the timer...they would be at risk to lose their ship. With the current timer...is that risk so small...that it makes more sense to logout than try to escape or fight?

 

[Crimson Kaim]

Reset timer when hit or not being able to log out at all until you are safe again (or even better: you have to wait 3 more minutes even if you are safe to log out).

 

[OamodSias]

If we go all semantics, then as per it's definition -combat logging "is the act of logging off or exiting the game during ship-to-ship combat"- that's exactly what players are doing. Whether the act is legal or not, is ultimately up to FD and as you say, according to them, it's not a ComLog when a player has waited the 15 seconds. However, as it stands now, the 15 seconds is simply too short a time to know if someone is effectively cheating or not. If the timer were to be removed, or increased to 1 (or more) minute, then we'll know that the person has ComLogged and we can accurately report; as opposed to merely a suspicion.

My personal preference is to remove the timer entirely. During combat, short of pulling the plug, you cannot log out.


Slightly off-topic:

Spoiler

My ultimate preference would be that you can't log out unless you've docked at a station, or landed on a moon, disabled your engines and basically "gone to bed" - but that's just me, lol.

The devs should look into this.

The regular log out is not considered a combat log...at least by the devs and their rules. Obviously, there are players that disagree. Partly because there is no discernible text that Player x has logged out...it looks like a combat log. This is why reporting is necessary! No one can tell if there was a 'real' combat log...or not. If a player is logging out, shouldn't a timer start on the Player X's screen stating 'player Y is in the process of leaving the game...you'd better get busy'?

Most of us assume that by the time a person waits for the timer...they would be at risk to lose their ship. With the current timer...is that risk so small...that it makes more sense to logout than try to escape or fight?

 

[Psycho Romeo]

Seriously - try the search button. It hasn't hurt anyone who has manage to live long enough to tell anyone about it.
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=176360
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The 15 second log out timer is fine I think, I could see it being upped to 25, or being dynamically changed based on FSD's current state and performance. High waking is far less honorable than using the log out timer.

 

[Nitek [pl]]

Agree - timer resets when shot. Very good idea!

 

[OamodSias]

Seriously - try the search button. It hasn't hurt anyone who has manage to live long enough to tell anyone about it.
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=176360
.
The 15 second log out timer is fine I think, I could see it being upped to 25, or being dynamically changed based on FSD's current state and performance. High waking is far less honorable than using the log out timer.

I did use the search button, I got 65 results. With that post, the last update was a month ago - would that not be necro'ing?

I'll respectfully disagree; 15 seconds is not long enough. No where near. If people can just exit the game because they don't want to fight, then what's the point of fighting at all? Imho, it's not an acceptable way to play.

With high waking, the attacker can at least hunt you down - thereby increasing gameplay for both; turning into a chase. With logging out, the defender effectively takes away the attackers right to engage that player and ultimately removes their chances of winning and thus claiming a bounty or cargo.

I'm curious as to how you rationalise that logging out more honourable.

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[Psycho Romeo]

I did use the search button, I got 65 results. With that post, the last update was a month ago - would that not be necro'ing?

I respectfully suggest you put in a little more effort to your forum courtesy. I searched the gameplay/suggestions forum for "log out timer" and the first two results are this thread and the one I linked. The last post was 3 days ago. Here, try it yourself. Don't look at '4 pages' and just quit.
.

I'll respectfully disagree; 15 seconds is not long enough. No where near. If people can just exit the game because they don't want to fight, then what's the point of fighting at all? Imho, it's not an acceptable way to play.

With high waking, the attacker can at least hunt you down - thereby increasing gameplay for both; turning into a chase. With logging out, the defender effectively takes away the attackers right to engage that player and ultimately removes their chances of winning and thus claiming a bounty or cargo.

I'm curious as to how you rationalise that logging out more honourable.

Thanks for the feedback.

I want to establish that using anything other than game world level mechanics to play the game is pretty dishonorable. Logging out is definitely not a game world mechanic level. I view it as very dishonorable.
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However high waking completely ignores mass locking, and I don't interpret that as a game world mechanic either. It's far quicker than using the log out button, so I view it as even less honorable.
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To imply that using the FSWS is a 'chase' or 'hunt' is to imply you've never used one.

 

[Vandaahl]

However high waking completely ignores mass locking, and I don't interpret that as a game world mechanic either.

How did you figure that?

 

[GJ51]

If you're safely parked at a station hangar when you log out, it won't matter how long the timer is, you'll be safe.

So yeah, up it to a reasonable time to prevent combat logging.

1 min. sounds about right.

Probably much easier to do programming wise than doing the whole timer reset thing for every instance currently active on the server.

Just guessing.

 

[Psycho Romeo]

How did you figure that?

I can't reconcile the mechanic in my head. How does the presence of mass affect the FSD differently between spooling up to jump to SC and spooling up to jump to hyper?

 

[OamodSias]

I respectfully suggest you put in a little more effort to your forum courtesy. I searched the gameplay/suggestions forum for "log out timer" and the first two results are this thread and the one I linked. The last post was 3 days ago. Here, try it yourself. Don't look at '4 pages' and just quit.

I searched for "combat logging" and got different results. Either way, you're right I could do with being a little more thorough in my searching.

I want to establish that using anything other than game world level mechanics to play the game is pretty dishonorable. Logging out is definitely not a game world mechanic level. I view it as very dishonorable.
.
However high waking completely ignores mass locking, and I don't interpret that as a game world mechanic either. It's far quicker than using the log out button, so I view it as even less honorable.
.
To imply that using the FSWS is a 'chase' or 'hunt' is to imply you've never used one.

As I'm sure you know, your FSD ignores mass locking during high wake because your target has a greater mass than your attackers ship; which is ultimately how the FSD works (by locking onto the largest mass at your destination). This honestly looks like a very sound in game world mechanic to me. How could a 'Conda, for example, prevent an FSD from locking onto a star?

Edited: Changed a sentence due to poor/inaccurate phrasing.


Off topic response:

Spoiler

I have used the FSWS, albeit, I admit, not extensively nor to hunt players only NPC; but I had no problems with it during that period. It's not perfect, but it does what it's supposed to do - this is not the say that the entire thing couldn't do with a bit more tweaking. But that's neither here nor there and ultimately subject to different discussion.

- - - Updated - - -

If you're safely parked at a station hangar when you log out, it won't matter how long the timer is, you'll be safe.

So yeah, up it to a reasonable time to prevent combat logging.

1 min. sounds about right.

Probably much easier to do programming wise than doing the whole timer reset thing for every instance currently active on the server.

Just guessing.

If docked, I'd say the timer doesn't apply (unless you're somehow in combat whilst docked).

I'd hazard a guess that the timer would be handled client-side (as instances are) in some fashion; only resetting when it receives a "hit" confirmation during combat. Just an educated guess, I'm honestly not sure how much work is handled by FD's server.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

Dear FDEV,

Do not increase the 15 second timer.

15 seconds is an eternity if you're trying to log off whilst in danger - and more than enough for someone who's decent at PvP to blow the ship up.

Yours sincerely,

Me.

 

[Vandaahl]

I can't reconcile the mechanic in my head. How does the presence of mass affect the FSD differently between spooling up to jump to SC and spooling up to jump to hyper?

Does it matter? Do you know how both systems work, in detail? I mean to deny something as a game world mechanic, while it is a game world mechanic sounds all a bit like fighting windmills to me... But each his own.

 

[Psycho Romeo]

As I'm sure you know, your FSD ignores mass locking during high wake because your target has a greater mass than the one you are currently placing on your target; which is ultimately how the FSD works (by locking onto the largest mass at your destination). This honestly looks like a very sound in game world mechanic to me. How could a 'Conda, for example, prevent an FSD from locking onto a star?

My FSD ignores mass lock because my target has a mass greater than the one I'm placing on my target?
.

Does it matter? Do you know how both systems work, in detail? I mean to deny something as a game world mechanic, while it is a game world mechanic sounds all a bit like fighting windmills to me... But each his own.

If I want to decide if something within the game world makes sense to me, yes it matters if I know how it works? Can I understand something without understanding it?

 

[OamodSias]

Dear FDEV,

Do not increase the 15 second timer.

15 seconds is an eternity if you're trying to log off whilst in danger - and more than enough for someone who's decent at PvP to blow the ship up.

Yours sincerely,

Me.

You shouldn't be trying to log off in the first place; you're in combat. Run, give your cargo, or die - those should be your options, imho.

I am speaking under correction here, but IIRC, the entire point of the timer was to dissuade players from logging out during combat to help players and FD find the combat loggers.

- - - Updated - - -

My FSD ignores mass lock because my target has a mass greater than the one I'm placing on my target?

According to YinYin on the thread you linked, yes that's pretty much how it works. Though it needs be said (s)he didn't quote a source.

High wake is jumping to another system, cannot be mass locked by a player due to the large distance only taking larger bodies (planets/stations, no ships) into consideration for the jump calculation.
Low wake is jumping into super cruise, can be mass locked by a player due to low distance requiring smaller masses (such as ships) to be taken into consideration for the jump calculation.

<snip>

 

[Daffan]

Reset when hit

Or 5 minutes from last combat / you can dock within those 5 minutes and it's instant.

Normal timer is 60 seconds in space.


Reasons:

You can log off during combat without combat logging

You can log off before anyone can frame-wake scan

You can log off before people can interdict you or line it up

ps. nerf highwake it's ridiculous.

 

[Psycho Romeo]

According to YinYin on the thread you linked, yes that's pretty much how it works. Though it needs be said (s)he didn't quote a source.

My comment was on the bizarre structure of your sentence. Though bringing this post to my attention has definitely made me feel better about mass locking and high waking.
And I agree with your sentiments about the FSWS.

 

[xondk]

Dear FDEV,

Do not increase the 15 second timer.

15 seconds is an eternity if you're trying to log off whilst in danger - and more than enough for someone who's decent at PvP to blow the ship up.

Yours sincerely,

Me.

Questions: what if they simply want to rob you of your cargo?
What if you are flying a big ship with good shields?