Inform Commanders promptly of any Thargoid War systems which cannot be recaptured.

[Aleks Zuno]

Since update 16, we have now several Control systems which appear at first to be exactly like many others, but differing in being unable to be completed and recaptured. Almost certainly this appears to be related to the presence of update 16 content, where one such example is Col 285 Sector OG-E b12-1.

The matter of investing activity is very important; it is adjacent directly to respect for how Commanders choose to use their time. With a little blindness regarding the demand for port defence scenarios aside, Frontier has been excellent in keeping time-respecting matters part of the broadcast discussions and of the recent major updates, and this new addition has an associated matter which follows the same theme. Consider:

• Maelstrom systems, now named Titan systems, cannot be captured but are visibly different with no progress measure nor action list.
• Since update 15, completed Invasion systems inform Commanders explicitly upon arrival that no further action is necessary, via both the Info panel and an Inbox message.
• Since update 16, completed Control systems behave likewise.

Exactly as stated during Frameshift Live #24 in January, I will presume it is still very much the case that Frontier intends Commanders not to invest activity where it will have no effect. Therefore—

If accidental​

The immobile completion becomes an error to be fixed; update 16 content is blocking Control completion in affected systems, and needs a bit of attention to correct them for completion to be made achievable again.

If intentional​

At minimum, these systems should behave in a similar manner to a completed Control system; an Info panel warning and an Inbox message should clarify that activity there will have no effect.

Ideally, the Galaxy map also should stop displaying the completion measure and action list because those imply erroneously that completion is possible. There is a tenuous case for retaining an element of discovery, and there may be an opportunity there to add an interesting element to Control systems—have the Galaxy map tell us explicitly whether completion is:

• Known to be possible, for which a progress measure is displayed.
• Known to be impossible, and thus stated.
• Unknown either way, and states that scouting or scanning is required.

That way, defence plans can take this into account more conveniently, and any Commander can help indirectly with said plans by scouting those unknown systems.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Agreed with all of the above (nothing to add, just trying to counter the tendency on this sub-forum where the uncontroversially good ideas don't get as much engagement and therefore might look less popular)

 

[Factabulous]

I kinda agree but also - it's early days - these have just been added so I think it's ok to be misleading for a while (basically - until a post like the OPs is made ). The usual ethos of the game is that things start as mysterious .. and then becomes clear - Galnet hasn't even acknowledged that the Matrix systems exist yet

(Plus - adding the OPs change with p16 would quickly have led to 'just look in the unchangeable systems - must be a Matrix there' - which wouldn't have been great)

 

[Xarionn]

I expect it to be intentional, Frontier knew we would focus on said matrixes immediately and retake most of them within 2 weeks which would lead to some weird scenario where humans control a system with a matrix but don't do anything with it (destroying the matrix or safely studying it), so gameplay-wise, it makes perfect sense.

On the other hand, lore-wise, I'm waiting for the explanation as of why we can't retake these systems, are the Thargoids simply flooding the area? Is the matrix making the system it's in unsafe? Something else?
Regardless, it's tied to the narrative therefore we will have to wait to get the info we need (I.e : the Scythe hasn't even been acknowledged by Galnet yet, beside the "new hunter sighted" mention), we better focus on the other systems and keep an eye on each sites for the time being.

 

[Ned Flandalorian]

It would be a dead giveaway where the new sites are if you could just activate the thargoid war filter and look for systems with no progress bar.

 

[Xarionn]

The game will probably mention "A Thargoid matrix site is present here, the Thargoids are [...] the system cannot be retaken" at sone point once some info are dropped via Galnet

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

Yeah I disagree. If these systems have plot armor, you should find out for yourself instead of being handed it on a silver platter. At least for a while.

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

I expect it to be intentional, Frontier knew we would focus on said matrixes immediately and retake most of them within 2 weeks which would lead to some weird scenario where humans control a system with a matrix but don't do anything with it (destroying the matrix or safely studying it), so gameplay-wise, it makes perfect sense.

Also this. Those systems would be optimized away incredibly quickly.

 

[Aleks Zuno]

(Plus - adding the OPs change with p16 would quickly have led to 'just look in the unchangeable systems - must be a Matrix there' - which wouldn't have been great)

It would be a dead giveaway where the new sites are if you could just activate the thargoid war filter and look for systems with no progress bar.

Yeah I disagree. If these systems have plot armor, you should find out for yourself instead of being handed it on a silver platter. At least for a while.

All quite true! I acknowledged the element of discovery; the real objection is the Galaxy map suggestion that Commanders can spend time in the system to complete it, such that any idea which would retain discovery while also respecting that time is quite fine.

I stated one possible idea for that:

have the Galaxy map tell us explicitly whether completion is:

• Known to be possible, for which a progress measure is displayed.
• Known to be impossible, and thus stated.
• Unknown either way, and states that scouting or scanning is required.

The discovery element is great and is involving Commanders who would be disinterested otherwise; the discomfort arises from the notion of others choosing to win the system but having no indication that their actions will be meaningless!

 

[Factabulous]

The discovery element is great and is involving Commanders who would be disinterested otherwise; the discomfort arises from the notion of others choosing to win the system but having no indication that their actions will be meaningless!

True - but this is only 44 systems out of - I have no clue and it's only Controlled systems (and ones that have been controlled for quite some time according to Ian) - which I assume are not prime targets except for large groups - who presumably know about this by now.

The patch hasn't been out a week, so hopefully there will be a minor patch to make this clear once the story moves on. No harm in highlighting to fdev though, as they can be forgetful

 

[Ned Flandalorian]

So next patch: new state added, thargoid colony?

 

[Aleks Zuno]

So next patch: new state added, thargoid colony?

Exactly that!

These few dozen Matrix systems have been known now for many weeks, and it is very clear that they were removed from our reach by edict with further plans postponed until the update after the one in which they were introduced, all while leaving us very much within their reach. Galnet has not acknowledged them, although the update 16.01 admitted them by means of referring to Coral Sap, and Frameshift Live has now displayed them.

The fact that they still can attack nearby systems is becoming a bit distasteful, and that the Galaxy map still presents them as being achievable always was quite distasteful—at minimum, if combat does nothing then the phrase "Destroy Thargoid craft" ought to go. Regarding their attacks continuing, there are now a few large groups of systems we are choosing not to attack specifically because it will incur endless ongoing defence against one Matrix system which I posit has no way to stop. For example, I want to attack the group next to Arietis Sector NX-U c2-20, but with a Matrix at Hyades Sector KN-K b8-3 the present plan is to hold back at Arietis Sector NX-U c2-19.

If they need to be removed from the war system because they need to house part of the story, please actually remove them from the war system! Writing this in should have been very easy; the Matrix sites are evolving into something, during which any Thargoid forces are focused on protecting them from any attack of ours, and cannot themselves be used for an attack. Display those systems as Thargoid bases distinct from Control and more like a Titan; if an appropriate update supplies the missing part of the process, reintroduce the progress display and let them attack again.

 

[Fizzatron]

The game will probably mention "A Thargoid matrix site is present here, the Thargoids are [...] the system cannot be retaken" at sone point once some info are dropped via Galnet

I reckon the codex could be used in this case, the systems reveal themselves as they go through the process of being confirmed.

 

[Aleks Zuno]

For what I believe to be the first time in the history of the Thargoid war, Frontier intervened manually and reset the Matrix system Pegasi Sector NN-S b4-3 over this issue and the way that Titan rescues were bypassing its invulnerability, all for lack of a new non-Control state which subtracts it by definition from possible recapture. The problems for Frontier do not end there; nine other Matrix systems were cleared one week prior, very clearly unintentionally!

The update 17 information has decided to remain cryptic, which I can appreciate normally, but in addition to hoping for a new system state I think we need also a bit of clarity now that somebody had to step in and repair a breach. Consider the muddled storyline; without any information, we noticed that Matrix systems could not be completed normally, we spent quite a bit of time looking for ways to complete them which did not exist, then months later we find that Titan rescues could complete them for a week, except it was not supposed to happen, but that first week counted anyway, and only after the first few days of the second week was any action taken as opposed to extending the Thursday maintenance interval and ending it there with a clear note about doing so.

That is worded as a mess deliberately, but also without trying specifically, just simply recalling how it played out. If update 17 does not give Matrix systems a new state, including those cleared systems if need be, said state plus a lot of clarification will be the top issues for me!

 

[Factabulous]

Don't worry - you'll get used to it