Insane amount of damage

I love your game and all, Frontier...been playing it since 2016.
But the damage some of the NPC's can take and deliver is insane and ridiculous!

First, there is no point being in a wing = A friend of mine tried to do a mission together and the AI felt like 3 or 4 times stronger. We had to bail. Normally this mission would be easy or average alone (without being in a wing).
We even tested another thing later when he was in another system and I was in a fight = the second I accepted his wing request the AI I previously had
no trouble killing got impossible to kill. The AI was difficult level from competent to dangerous.
I must add I fly a top engineered Fer Der Lance with only A class modules.

Second, I was on a scavenger ground mission. I flew low, hovered and shot at them. These dudes on ground could take maybe 20 - 30 rounds of my 4A canon. I also blasted them with 4 x 2B Rail guns. No damage from the rail guns... not even a hit marker.
It took me maybe 20 minutes to kill those 4 guys. I had to shoot from a distance and if I didn't hit one guy rapidly his shield would not deplete.
I ended up just scraping the ground really slow and just run them over. That at least instantly killed them. Funny, but not how I want to play.
Also these guys had no problem getting my shield down to 60 % in matter of seconds... from small arms fire.... -_-

All I ask is that you make the damage consistent and more realistic. There should be a positive side to being in a wing = helping a friend with a difficult mission.
But when the mission gets 4 times harder just because I join his wing and both can't manage the mission, then what is the point?

Also 4 humans on the ground should be insta killed by a Fer der lance blasting his rail guns at them.
Also why can't you share every mission in a wing? This game could be so much more than it is just by a few tweaks. Make it more open and PVP related.
Why not bounty missions on other players who are breaking the law? etc...
 
Rails and cannons don't do splash damage. Get some missiles. The odds of you landing a rail on a scav is pretty low.

Need to see video of your overpowered AI. Like Nessie no one has captured a good image of the KI Asp and his buddies yet.

These were small soldiers on the ground. Humans. Maybe I was not so clear when I mentioned this. I googled "scavs" and those are aliens hehe. In this missions 4 guys were near a damaged dish that I needed to collect data from.
When a human gets hit by a 4A canon he should be obliterated.
Also the blast impact from rails = explosions, debree on ground were like 100 times size of the humans there. That should have killed them alone.

When my A4 canon can drop the shields of a competenet / dangerous ship in matter of seconds, hence a couple of shot of my rail guns will destroy a ship... but do no damage to humans??? That makes no sense. A human's space suit's armor and shield is stronger than on a ship????

Also the superior AI when flying wings at least 1000 of others players must have experienced?

I can see if we can manage to make a video of it
 
The best ship borne anti personnel weapon is dumb fire missiles. Fit 3 racks to say an Eagle or iEagle slaved to fire volleys of 3 missiles, gives a triangular impact pattern and takes the scavs out in no time. Equip you ship with weapons that will do damage rather than moan about some (possibly your favourites) being ineffective.

A scarab SRV is also really good for taking out personnel.

Steve
 
I have slaughtered many footboys with beams and hammers

just to make a point to that settlement.
very doable but totally pointless, wrong way, seriously inefficient.

get out of your ship and shoot them as intended

or use the srv if you don't wan't to leave a hard shell.

history will show you that for every cmdr that thought it better to shoot planetary things from above, has induced changes to gameplay
making skimmers like hitting a nav beacon, immovable
making it so they can retaliate and actually take you out of the sky in pieces.
someone will always find a way.

as for the rest, never yet seen any change in ai or any part of fighting changed due to winging up.
and I bounty hunt with another of my own accounts winged , all the time.
It does affect the order of the assassins that were coming for me and does seem to reset their value temporarily.

but then after all that, I have a few things to say
ever hunt the npc's in Pirate USS's, those are tough aka very hard bodied ships, need the right ship/loadout for them.
same with wing assassinate missions - 1 fdl and 3 vultures, engineered to the max. worthless bounties, so good for the mission though.
tough to kill, read many many reasons why.
there are several ways to kill them and kill them fast as though they have no shield and butter is their dad.

the assassins that a faction sends after you for killing too many of their own, very tough. very hard to kill.

in all this the right ship and or the right loadout makes the difference.
and yes skill counts.

my bounty hunting is 99.9% anacondas that come for me.
some are tough as can be others die way too fast, all normal.
in BH in a res or a haz res or any way at all, there are patterns to the ai, to the factions you kill.
the faster you kill, the more wave they send and the thicker the waves
the weaker your ship becomes, the more ships they send and more and more aggressive they get.
these reactions or AI are dependent on you and your behaviour and your skill and ability and ofc somewhat on your ship and loadout.
Knowing they exist means you can counter them.

I usually do my killing in a vette or a conda
the conda is better at the wing assassin missions than any ship I have tried, does the job with tremendous ease.

its a tie between the vette and the conda for the rest. For me it then is a matter of preference for the scenario.

I do not use my fdl's or Kraits or mambas for any of this because they are all 1 shot ships, they are useless for continual killing unless you are able to avoid any and all damage making it so they can last a lot longer.

Things to know
use of gimballed weapons is very easy, I can and have fallen asleep at the keyboard in CZ's
because it takes very little effort, and its a way.. but it is a slow way and extremely inefficient.

once you start using fixed weapons
you will tire ten times sooner than you used to, providing you are actually trying to hit the target and not just flailing about.

as time goes by, you get used to the extra effort it takes, but your head and body may still tire faster than using gimbals.

BUT, doing so makes you at least 20-30% more effective just from the extra power of fixed instead of gimbal mounts.

Doing this now puts you in a position where no npc should be able to run away from you.

But there is still the right ship and the right loadout, not chcking this leaves you as weak as you were before.

It is nearly impossible to make one ship or 1 loadout that can take on everything.
I have ships that I put in this category, even though it is not 100% true, they are best for most situations. not all

Find a way to take out the bonus ships in a cz rapidly, and still be able to stomp a cutter in under 1 minute and take out icouriers.
if you can do that, you have a decent loadout.


I have many ships and many loadouts

my preferred weapons are
fixed beam
Imperial Hammer
Long Range MC's

a mix is important
just like the BGS that has many levers to control, change, affect a faction which using only one lever tends to mean a fail.
ship loadout is like the BGS in that 1 weapon only is weak.

my vette is
1 fixed beam - i use either LR with thermal conduit, or overcharged with Thermal Conduit
1 fixed MC -i use either LR with corrosive
3 imperial hammers - short range blaster with super penetrator
2 tiny turretted LR mc's - really doesn't matter much what experimental i use, these have a purpose.

my conda is
1 fixed MC
5 imperial hammers
2 tiny turretted beams

on the conda here, the rails destroy everything and very fast, the mc and the tiny beams, help it all fall apart waaay faster..
I picture this one as fill ship with holes, use mc and beams to remove the other bits that are holding on tight to the holes.
This is also a 1 shot ship tbh but I can usually do 3 wing assassinates or about 6-8 regular pirate kills before it needs more ammo.

the vette does this all pretty well too, but can last a lot longer in regular hunting or combat

the placement in both ships makes them far better than others at their jobs
plus the conda hull is magic

the 4A beam is powerful enough that it can be the only weapon and you are still going to kill anything in front of you.

the mc's are usually Long Range, because lr is a faster bullet and therefore can actually hit the courier or the viper - this is very useful. no matter the size.

The generation of heat is for me a desirable thing. I use it
listen to whiners or not, use your own judgement

my vette can kill a conda in 3 seconds because of the thermal conduit.
when the temp is 400 or higher, stuff melts at its touch
then there is the actual holes being punched clean through every module on the ship with the Hammers with SP.
many ships blow up with 40% to 70% hull still.

the damage my ships suffer from my own weapons is really minimal imo, that I get a kill and get it fast is what I want
I play the BGS, I do NOT care about the credits, but that bounty is pure gold for BGS and i don't care what it takes or what it costs to get it. there is ONLY ONE way to get bounties for BGS.
you can't buy them or trade for them, you must kill.

I have never yet blown up from overheating
I have tested every ship for these tolerances
the conda is outstanding and takes #1 tough ship award for this.
vette is #2


that fdl you are using is a doorstop by comparison and cannot compete without the skill to evade and cause damage and is just too tiring to use.
but the ship choice is second to loadout, so each to his own.
the small ships and medium are good, just not really as full time bounty hunters..imo

I use the cutters a lot too, because to get my bounties, I use wing mining missions..so i get to kill occasionally in the cutters too
1 class 4 fixed beam
4 hammers
2 beams or mc's, really makes not much diff here..
the hammers and that beam rip things apart as well as the vette.

there is a lot to learn a lot to discover
meaning many weapons options and many combinations

I can tell you when I started in 2014, I read that everyone thinks the beam is the worst weapon
hammers are not as good as rails

the list goes on..
Thank the stars I am not sheep or lemming and I ignored them all
and I tested every weapon on every ship it can go on.

And I end up with the exact opposite results
Beam is the single most powerful yet extremely under utilized weapon we have. imo

Hammers dont come in class 3 or 4 for a reason. and there is NO comparison to the Rail, they are quite different and I have them on every ship I own that can mount one.
the way the rail and the hammer fires makes a gigantic difference in the actual use and its ability.

next, many weapons have other ways to do things.
ex: a hammer
press fire and keep pressed, Hammer charges and fires, and keeps repeating till you stop pressing fire.
regular rail,
press fire, it charges and fires. its done. you have to release, wait a sec and press again to re-fire.

ok, part 1 of the rail

now the hammer has a trick the rail does not have

get it firing, then reduce the power to it, it starts to stutter. give full power again, it now keeps the stutter fire and just keeps going
shooting the same amount of ammo, but never more than 1 at a time instead of 3 at a time, but the 3at one time frame remains, so pure machine gun fire via hammer.

this on a 5 hammer conda also destroys anything in front of it in about 3 or less seconds. taking the hull from 100% to 0 in about 2 seconds.
This and a 400-600% temp on the 4a Beam/s makes this my #1 favourite shooter and very fun to see.

Had I watched any videos or actually listened to anyone, I probably would never have learned these things.

hope you get some useful info from all this.
good luck
don't be afraid to try the unheard of or the totally ridiculous...

never let fear of death or ship loss prevent any test.

if a ship can't take it, it isn't worth taking.
a class 1 rail alone can take out a conda.
 
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Still there is one point... The scavs manage it to get your shields to Zero in Seconds, just by using their handguns.
 
right tool for the job = right result.

20 minutes to take out 4 (scav) npcs! With a SRV you can kill them, power up the settlement, loot, power down and be away.

Steve
 
Just bump them with your ship and they go flying. Or hover over them and then down thrust. That's what I did in the beginning when my equipment wasn't quite good enough to handle on foot combat.
 
I’m kinda okay with it being very difficult to target / hit people in the ground with ship weapons. Sure, there have been times when it’s been frustrating but it makes sense in the grand scheme of things.

I don’t understand why handheld weapons do so much damage to ships. That makes zero sense. A ships shield generator should easily be able to recharge faster than a few hand plasma guns can damage it never mind the hull of a ship which should be basically impervious to small arms fire. Wasn’t there one guy who punched a ship to death? Yeh - it took ages but try punching a modern era tank to kill it … doesn’t matter how long you have, it ain’t gonna happen!!
 
Second, I was on a scavenger ground mission. I flew low, hovered and shot at them. These dudes on ground could take maybe 20 - 30 rounds of my 4A canon. I also blasted them with 4 x 2B Rail guns. No damage from the rail guns... not even a hit marker.
It took me maybe 20 minutes to kill those 4 guys. I had to shoot from a distance and if I didn't hit one guy rapidly his shield would not deplete.
I ended up just scraping the ground really slow and just run them over. That at least instantly killed them. Funny, but not how I want to play.
Also these guys had no problem getting my shield down to 60 % in matter of seconds... from small arms fire.... -_-
As others have stated here, Railguns and Cannons (even with the High-Yield Experimental) do not have splash damage and need a direct impact to damage a foot soldier. In addition, personal shields have a damage-gating mechanic that prevents one-shot kills (damage is not transferred from shields to HP if the shields break); you'd need two consecutive hits to eliminate even a Scavenger.

Wasn't that an Anaconda that was already at 0% hull?
It was, and punching ships, SRVs or fun barrels no longer does damage as of Odyssey's release, IIRC.
 
I’m kinda okay with it being very difficult to target / hit people in the ground with ship weapons. Sure, there have been times when it’s been frustrating but it makes sense in the grand scheme of things.

I don’t understand why handheld weapons do so much damage to ships. That makes zero sense. A ships shield generator should easily be able to recharge faster than a few hand plasma guns can damage it never mind the hull of a ship which should be basically impervious to small arms fire. Wasn’t there one guy who punched a ship to death? Yeh - it took ages but try punching a modern era tank to kill it … doesn’t matter how long you have, it ain’t gonna happen!!
Most videos of people "punching" ships to death are doing so to unarmoured targets... so yes... I'll quite happily tear apart a soft-skin vehicle with my bare hands. Anacondas aren't MBTs... in fact in absence of pre-fit ships, no stock ship is. And while things like sideys and stuff do go down to it, it still takes time and a ship to be sitting idle doing nothing.

But armoured and/or engineered ships? I recall seeing one video of that and it certainly wasn't going to happen anytime soon.

As for handheld weapons efficacy, totally disagree. There's plenty of modern examples of the efficacy of soldier-portable weapons systems destroying heavily armoured targets in short measure... meanwhile squad-size small-arms fire against under-the-radar fliers (helicopters, even fast-movers) poses a significant threat. It simply makes sense to scale that to the game.

I also disagree that a ship shield generator should be able to recharge faster. Without falling back to "it's a game, a fun game is more important than a logical one"... well, now we enter the world of handwavium, which is going to be any counterpoint here.

ships shield generators cover an area that is orders of magnitude larger than a person, therefore any equipment/power needs will equally scale. Is that scaling linear? Who knows... but it's not unrealistic for that to be an exponential increase... e.g doubling the area covered by a shield takes 4 times the energy... tripling takes 9 times etc... at exponential rates I'd even question whether ship shields are strong enough.

Then there's engineering... yeah I'll concede that's just unicorns and fairy bread.

Shields are like playdough. You want to cover a person in playdough, you need X amount... you want to cover a house, you need Y amount, but the fact the amount you've used to cover the house is much orders of magnitude larger than the amount to cover the person doesn't mean the playdough covering the house will be stronger. It'll be the same strength.

Additionally.... ship systems are renewable and dont require charge-replacements... whereas virtually everything on-foot uses charges of some form. Self-renewable systems as a general rule require significantly larger equipment profiles than non-renewable. So it gets worse for ships.

So, I don't see anything particularly problematic. Maybe the fact a ship explodes when you punch it to death, but that's really just a combination of 1hp issues and boiling ants.

tl;dr In shield terms, it takes a much smaller generator and much smaller amount of power to maintain shields in a personal area of effect to the same strength as a ship, where it's (probably) a room-sized module, potentially bigger for the larger ships. So the fact ship shields (by default) aren't much stronger than personal shields makes sense to me... and armour has already been addressed.

But then we get to "But surely ship weapons should cook people faster!". Spoiler alert, they do, when they hit. But as you've noted, it's hard to hit anything without an AOE weapon. Beam lasers roast infantry almost instantly, and they have 10 times (or more) the range, so ships weapons are fine.

It was, and punching ships, SRVs or fun barrels no longer does damage as of Odyssey's release, IIRC.
I've definitely done this post-Odyssey release... perhaps it's a more recent change that I haven't tested since?
 
It's actually pretty easy to hit scavs with lasers on low G worlds, on high G the thruster instability makes it a trial. They do like to move around a bit though. If I have time or I feel like saving a few missiles I will roast them with my pulse lasers. I do feel like a kid with a magnifying glass though.
 
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