Instancing by Combat Rating

[indiebob]

Not sure if it's subtle enough, but when selecting players to instance together, how about using combat rating to match players against each other? The idea would be to place players with same combat rating or maybe one rating up or down if there aren't enough players around. So ... if you are mostly harmless you will end up in instances with players who are harmless or novice rated.

I suppose that players with other very high ratings, e.g. trading could be included too since they should have bigger ships and be able to handle themselves but maybe scale it down a bit so that players with a trader rating higher than their combat ratings are matched as if their trader rating was a combat rating one lower. So a novice trader would be ranked as if they had a combat rating of mostly harmless.

EDIT: As others are saying Combat Rating isn't a good measure of skill, so perhaps some new PVP rating might be used.

.

You might decide to allow wider differences when there are very few players if you liked but the tendency would be to find evenly matched players as much as possible.

WHY? It'd would make it harder for experienced players to pick on newbies. With wings use the combat rating of the most experienced pilot.

EDIT: the implication is that players of any rating can wing together to enter the same instance.

In addition it would provide PVPers with tougher encounters with which to prove their mettle.

Not that I get to do much PVP. Have just been wandering round Lave for half an hour. Not another player in sight!

 

[MottiKhan]

Incredibly difficult to read if you're on the default setting for FD. Light gray against white.

I highlighted it and skimmed as best I could. It seems like you're wanting to add a layer to instancing. I'm not sure of the details because even highlighted, it got tiring to read. But instancing is difficult as it is. I can't see adding a layer to it improving anything from a technical aspect.

 

[indiebob]

Incredibly difficult to read if you're on the default setting for FD. Light gray against white.

I highlighted it and skimmed as best I could. It seems like you're wanting to add a layer to instancing. I'm not sure of the details because even highlighted, it got tiring to read. But instancing is difficult as it is. I can't see adding a layer to it improving anything from a technical aspect.

Looked "normal" white on black to me but I have removed formatting. Is it OK now?

But instancing is difficult as it is.

Surely the difficulty is in running the instance, not selecting who goes in which? Unless you can explain more? A lot of other games use metrics for match making, are you saying Frontier aren't up to it?

I can't see adding a layer to it improving anything from a technical aspect.

More for the gameplay aspect. Unless your idea of gameplay is ganking newbies.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Incredibly difficult to read if you're on the default setting for FD. Light gray against white.

I highlighted it and skimmed as best I could. It seems like you're wanting to add a layer to instancing. I'm not sure of the details because even highlighted, it got tiring to read. But instancing is difficult as it is. I can't see adding a layer to it improving anything from a technical aspect.

Ah just realised I accidentally pasted half the text twice in the middle of the post. My mistake.

 

[MottiKhan]

Ah, yes, it's readable now. Thanks.

On the technical aspect, I can be in a system with my own wingmates and not see them. We've had times where resetting the instance didn't even take and had to repeat. Until FD can get that part working, I'm not sure that spending resources for matchmaking is called for.

Really, more features is not what we need. We need the existing ones to work reliably first. There's a long list, but that's for a different thread.

 

[indiebob]

Ah, yes, it's readable now. Thanks.

On the technical aspect, I can be in a system with my own wingmates and not see them. We've had times where resetting the instance didn't even take and had to repeat. Until FD can get that part working, I'm not sure that spending resources for matchmaking is called for.

Really, more features is not what we need. We need the existing ones to work reliably first. There's a long list, but that's for a different thread.

I am with you on the "fix stuff first" agenda, but that's no reason to say this is a bad idea. That's a reason to say "get your act together, frontier!". I play plenty of team based games where you form a squad, wing etc and end up in the same game/instance together, no problems.

 

[MottiKhan]

I am with you on the "fix stuff first" agenda, but that's no reason to say this is a bad idea. That's a reason to say "get your act together, frontier!".

I agree. And I never said it's a bad idea. Only that I can't see them putting effort into anything new until they fix the existing stuff. All new content takes manpower and so far seems to introduce more bugs. It's getting kinda crawly around here.

 

[indiebob]

I agree. And I never said it's a bad idea. Only that I can't see them putting effort into anything new until they fix the existing stuff. All new content takes manpower and so far seems to introduce more bugs. It's getting kinda crawly around here.

The "new feature death spiral". more toxic than "we will do exactly what the experienced players ask for in the forums and not really think things through"-itis.

 

[Robert Maynard]

WHY? It'd would make it harder for experienced players to pick on newbies. With wings use the combat rating of the most experienced pilot.

Not if the experienced player either wiped their save or bought another copy of the game on sale....

 

[MottiKhan]

Not if the experienced player either wiped their save or bought another copy of the game on sale....

Kind of like me? Although I didn't do it to create another combat CMDR. My secondary is an explorer.

 

[Cliffson]

Nice idea in principal but a coupme of issues:

It'd also prevent experienced players from helping newer players.

After a point (where you know which end the bullets come out of) combat rank becomes meaningless in pvp, i've beaten people in better ships and higher rankings and had my rear handed too me by lower ranked players in cheap ships.

I think it'd be more beneficial to have a tutorial on interdictions and escaping fights to be honest.

 

[GluttonyFang]

Fold

First of all, terrible idea, the combat ranking in this game doesn't accurately reflect the piloting skill whatsoever, since it's nothing but an indication of how many NPCs one killed.

Second of all, even if we implement some sort of MMR, people will cheat this system to no end.

Therefore, don't bother with a more complex system when basic instancing doesn't work that well to begin with.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Not if the experienced player either wiped their save or bought another copy of the game on sale....

This precisely.

 

[indiebob]

I agree. And I never said it's a bad idea. Only that I can't see them putting effort into anything new until they fix the existing stuff. All new content takes manpower and so far seems to introduce more bugs. It's getting kinda crawly around here.

You said it would add a layer to instancing and that was a bad thing. Instancing was "difficult" enough as it was. Now, I may have read it wrong but making something worse means it's a bad idea in my book. You didn't say "good idea but I wish they'd sort out the buggy instancing before adding features".

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

First of all, terrible idea, the combat ranking in this game doesn't accurately reflect the piloting skill whatsoever, since it's nothing but an indication of how many NPCs one killed.

Second of all, even if we implement some sort of MMR, people will cheat this system to no end.

Therefore, don't bother with a more complex system when basic instancing doesn't work that well to begin with.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -



This precisely.

I agree combat ranking isn't perfect but it'd be something. I even say this in the OP.

How would people cheat MMR? Wouldn't a high ranking be a badge of pride? You don't see people in LoL deliberately lowering their rank so they can fight newbies....

Hack the server to change their MMR?

RE: Helping newbies - good point but they can always play in group where such restrictions might be relaxed. Not sure though. I will think about it and see if I can come up with something better!

Ah - wings. Will add it to the main post. People of any rank can wing together, which is kind of implied but not explicitly mentioned in the OP. Still will think about it some more.

 

[indiebob]

Not if the experienced player either wiped their save or bought another copy of the game on sale....

But that's the same with any game with match making. On many you can just create a new account, no purchase necessary. It might not completely eliminate the problem, but it would improve it considerably. How many players are willing to spend money on an extra copy in the sales just to troll with?

 

[Robert Maynard]

But that's the same with any game with match making. On many you can just create a new account, no purchase necessary. It might not completely eliminate the problem, but it would improve it considerably. How many players are willing to spend money on an extra copy in the sales just to troll with?

We don't know. The game was on sale recently for £9.99.

Reducing the potential pool of players available for instancing by selecting only those with a particular combat rank would certainly make the galaxy feel more empty.

 

[GluttonyFang]

I agree combat ranking isn't perfect but it'd be something. I even say this in the OP.

How would people cheat MMR? Wouldn't a high ranking be a badge of pride? You don't see people in LoL deliberately lowering their rank so they can fight newbies....

Hack the server to change their MMR?

RE: Helping newbies - good point but they can always play in group where such restrictions might be relaxed. Not sure though. I will think about it and see if I can come up with something better!

Ah - wings. Will add it to the main post. People of any rank can wing together, which is kind of implied but not explicitly mentioned in the OP. Still will think about it some more.

People who actually care about their PvP prestige won't do this, but as we have seen, quite a lot of people likes to blow people up for the fun of it and enjoy destroying under-equipped ships and inexperienced pilots.

The concept of MMR is something that changes with one's performance, it isn't unthinkable for someone to intentionally perform badly or do this with friends to intentionally lower their MMR, any experienced player in any game with MMR will tell you the same.

 

[Arjin]

Yea don't like this idea very much sorry, segregation never really works. And given what others have said Combat Rank doesn't accurately reflect skill.

 

[indiebob]

We don't know. The game was on sale recently for £9.99.

Reducing the potential pool of players available for instancing by selecting only those with a particular combat rank would certainly make the galaxy feel more empty.

You missed the bit of the OP where I suggested you relax the rules when player numbers are lower. I am not suggesting a hard and fast rule but a "where possible" metric to improve things.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

People who actually care about their PvP prestige won't do this, but as we have seen, quite a lot of people likes to blow people up for the fun of it and enjoy destroying under-equipped ships and inexperienced pilots.

The concept of MMR is something that changes with one's performance, it isn't unthinkable for someone to intentionally perform badly or do this with friends to intentionally lower their MMR, any experienced player in any game with MMR will tell you the same.

So wait.... you are saying people will buy a separate copy of the game, they will lose a lot of fights just so they can kill people easily ... erm. And you are suggesting this will be a common phenomenon?

Hmmm. Surely then their friends rank would increase? Unless you make it a game of diminishing returns for killing/being killed by the same person over and over ...

 

[CariadocThorne]

This would cut newbies off from most PvP.

Combat focused players who have been playing a while will have fairly high ratings. Newbies therefore will always end up in instances with other newbies and non combat focused players.

With most of the existing PvPers in higher rating instances, newbies will effectively be shut out, unable to engage in PvP unless they attack other low rating players (ie other newbies and non combat focused players).

Speaking as a fairly new player myself, I would absolutely hate it.

 

[Jukelo]

OP's suggestion could be nice if limited to LHS 3447 and Eravate.

 

[GluttonyFang]

So wait.... you are saying people will buy a separate copy of the game, they will lose a lot of fights just so they can kill people easily ... erm. And you are suggesting this will be a common phenomenon?

Hmmm. Surely then their friends rank would increase? Unless you make it a game of diminishing returns for killing/being killed by the same person over and over ...

Yes, I actually know people that do this already. Why do you think people wanted a "second save" on one account? Some find it interesting to go complete psycho under a different Cmdr name.

Also, any attempt of implementing ELO/MMR have all been cheated eventually.

Also not to mention, people on top of the ELO/MMR usually have a hard time to find any fights to begin with, due to their skills. They honed their skills to get to the top only to be rewarded with no match up with anyone, so some of them will intentionally lower their MMR/ELO, as well.