Newcomer / Intro instant NPC hull regens

Combat can be challenging in ED with no engineered anything on your ship.
I recently fought pretty hard to wear down an NPC interdictor. I have to say that I felt prety good about that accomplishment.
I got him down to 7% hull before he managed to jump away (yes, that was frustrating).
I entered supercruise to continue on my way only to be tethered by the same NPC again in under 10 seconds! I thought: "Great, let's party!" so I submitted to the interdiction immediately and found that he had 100% shields and 100% hull.
I can understand that maybe you can pop a shield cell boost real quick, but hull? I can't do that! I have to return to a station to repair.
 
Yeah, it's irritating. However, if an NPC high-wakes and you scan the wake with an FSD Wake Scanner and follow it, the NPC will retain the shield and hull damage it had when it jumped.

Have you noticed NPCs always high-wake? Making it even more mysterious how they manage to jump away, then jump back arriving at the local star, then fly back to you while repairing their ship completely all in such a short time.
 
What I like is being interdicted by an NPC right when I jump into a system. I win and it has to low wake and recharge FSD. I continue on with my 30-50k ls journey only to see that same NPC waiting to interdict me at my destination. (y)
 
Each time you change instances (ie. enter or leave supercruise, or do a hyperjump), all the NPCs have to be recreated. The game has problems with persistence, and in many cases the new NPCs are full health/full shields and whatever damage was caused to the previous NPC is lost. Sometimes they even change the ship type, or pilot ranking. It's ugly, but it's been that way for years.
 
Let's have a think how it would work in NPCs were persistent:

1) You fight the NPC - it runs away with 7% hull.
2) You are still in normal space, so the NPC goes off and attacks someone else in SC
3) The other person kills the NPC almost instantly, as its shields are down and it only has 7% hull
4) NPC respawns (as we do after death) with 100% shields and 100% hull
5) By now you are back in SC and get interdicted by the NPC .... and complain it has 100% hull

So basically just the same as now as far as you are concerned :)
 

rootsrat

Volunteer Moderator
Combat can be challenging in ED with no engineered anything on your ship.
I recently fought pretty hard to wear down an NPC interdictor. I have to say that I felt prety good about that accomplishment.
I got him down to 7% hull before he managed to jump away (yes, that was frustrating).
I entered supercruise to continue on my way only to be tethered by the same NPC again in under 10 seconds! I thought: "Great, let's party!" so I submitted to the interdiction immediately and found that he had 100% shields and 100% hull.
I can understand that maybe you can pop a shield cell boost real quick, but hull? I can't do that! I have to return to a station to repair.

This was one of the MOST frustrating and idtiotic experiences I've had in Elite in a loooooong time. Though it's hard to believe, this was the first time it happend to me in almost 3000 hours in the game. Probably because I've only done a few assassination missions before.

I was testing a new FDL build and decided to do some wing assassination missions solo. Lo and behold, "Assassinate known pirate Braben" (no kidding!). OK then, challenge accepted! :D

Mr Braben (NPC of course) was an Elite pilot flying a Corvette (pretty sure it was engineered, as it was almost as agile as my FDL - also fully engineered). I managed to get it down to I think 9% and it high waked out. I immediately go back to Super Cruise and... he's there, in SC and with 100% hull.

I mean... I'm sorry, but I can't call it anythig else, but the most idiotic game mechanic I came across in Elite so far I think. HOW?

(Well, I know how - it's a generic NPC. But weren't we supposed to get semi-persistant NPC's some time ago? Or am I imagining this?)

Totally nonsensical and stupid. I swore not to do any other assassination missions until this aspect it improved, because as I said, it's simply the most stupid thing in Elite for me, hands down.

Let's have a think how it would work in NPCs were persistent:

1) You fight the NPC - it runs away with 7% hull.
2) You are still in normal space, so the NPC goes off and attacks someone else in SC
3) The other person kills the NPC almost instantly, as its shields are down and it only has 7% hull
4) NPC respawns (as we do after death) with 100% shields and 100% hull
5) By now you are back in SC and get interdicted by the NPC .... and complain it has 100% hull

So basically just the same as now as far as you are concerned :)


Wrong. If this was done properly, number 2 would never happen, because NPC would go to the nearest station to repair, allowing you to pursue if you happen to have a wake scanner installed (also, this thing would FINALLY come useful for something else that data farming).

If you fail and NPC manages to dock, you'd get a mission update message "Commander! We have a report that iDreaded Pirate Roberts has now fully repaired and rearmed. He's been last seen in X system. Please continue your pursuit!"

The scenario where someone else kills "your" NPC would get you the followinng message "Dreaded Pirate Roberts' ship was just destroyed, but he's manage to escape in a pod! He's been last seen in a new ship in X system. Please continue your pursuit!"

This would make for a much more interesting game than just "Aaaaand I'm magically back in SC with 100% hull, even though I've just high waked out with 7% hull, literally 5 seconds ago!"
 
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Wrong. If this was done properly, number 2 would never happen, because NPC would go to the nearest station to repair, allowing you to pursue if you happen to have a wake scanner installed (also, this thing would FINALLY come useful for something else that data farming).
Which is why it's more complex than when people say 'they should just come back with the same damage'. Kinda made my point for me :)
 
This has been a source of annoyance to me for years. Never seen anything from F D excusing it or addressing it (or even acknowledging it).

I have seen mention of this for years on the forum but only experienced it myself last night. The final Deadly conda (mission spawn pirate) from a bootleg liquor mission was beaten down several times but I never actually managed to get their FSD to zero (4% was the lowest I think) but each time the local police showed up the pirate would turn to run as usual & jumped away. On returning to supercruise it respawned fully repaired right behind me. This repeated 3-4 times until I eventually ran out of ammo and while i gave it a good go was unable to do significant module damage with only a beam laser. Eventually I just low waked away & completed the mission.

To echo the comments of some others, immediately respawning is daft but understandable (I would rather have that for an assassination mission say), but combined with the lack of persistent damage made for an unpleasant, gamey experience.

Either I chased them away & they don't immediately come back or they should return retaining their damage.


Overall I noticed the mission pirates were a little tougher & a little harder hitting yesterday than they usually are too.
 

rootsrat

Volunteer Moderator
Which is why it's more complex than when people say 'they should just come back with the same damage'. Kinda made my point for me :)

Oh yes, I have no doubts it wouldn't be easy to implement and there'd be a few more things to consider.

It would be definitely worth it IMO. As the current mechanics is utterly stupid.
 
Bugs, nah. We have wrong perception of ourselves! We think we're the bosses of the galaxy, but that is not true. I'm a federal ADMIRAL without any fleet and troop under my command besides two loyal elite SLF operators. I don't own any galactic assets like a space port or an installation. Some people are Imperial KINGS! But that doesn't make them any special. Simply we're the space PLEB that don't have any access to those experimental hull regen fsd drives that all famous PIRATE LORDS have. Look at the PIRATE LORD and look at yourself in that tight space suit. They got the power, they got the sauce, they live colorful lives, they got all the chicas bonitas and they drink champagne while we grind with tears in our eyes :ROFLMAO:

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While it is definitly very anoying, its not a bug.
Its a design choice.
You see, the NPC you saw after going back to sc was NOT the same as the one you fought against before.
Sure, he might have had the same name, and the same ship type with the same name...
But that was not the same NPC. It was a new NPC with the same specification. Once a NPC leaves your instace he ceases to exist. Once he wakes out he just isnt there anymore, because before you wake after him there is no supercruise instance that he could be inside. The sc instance is created when you transition to sc. New instance, new npc.
Unless another cmdr was in supercruise around to keep the instance open, that could work (haven't tested it).
 
While it is definitly very anoying, its not a bug.
Its a design choice.
You see, the NPC you saw after going back to sc was NOT the same as the one you fought against before.
Sure, he might have had the same name, and the same ship type with the same name...
But that was not the same NPC. It was a new NPC with the same specification. Once a NPC leaves your instace he ceases to exist. Once he wakes out he just isnt there anymore, because before you wake after him there is no supercruise instance that he could be inside. The sc instance is created when you transition to sc. New instance, new npc.
Unless another cmdr was in supercruise around to keep the instance open, that could work (haven't tested it).

This is the point - if you have a mission for example which has enemy ships coming for you then the NPC is the same - same name, same ship, same equipment - to dismiss it as "yeah it is just a non-persistent NPC clone" just underlines the issue. The NPCs are not persistent and that is the complaint.
 
The same frustrating flaw in design, as the situation when we chase wanted NPC in supercruise, we almost get him and he miraculously disappears on a nearest atmospheric world...:cautious:.
 
The excuses players(!) give for this cr*p exciting and engaging 'game play' are always breath taking ;)
Small wonder FD feels no pressure to make their 'game' better. They also do not need to defend this crappy engaging design, players do it for them and better than they ever could.
 
stock a wake scanner and follow them when they jump. that will make them persistent and the damage remain
Usually I do not have the space for a wake scanner, except in my combat ship. And why should I hunt the NPC down? I do not do combat missions, I only fight NPCs who interdict me, if I think I can beat them, and only if I am motivated at the time. As soon as the zombie tries to flee, I turn around and continue my journey. The Zombie is dead anyway as soon as he leaves the instance. And a few thousand credits bounty - just keep it FD. It is only annoying, and most of the time I beat the interdiction and that's it.

But I hear that in combat missions, if the NPC is your target, he stops being the target (and count) if you destroy him in another system, where he flees to. No idea if this is correct.
 
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