Insurance/Re-buy changes - less frustration, same price

[Riepah]

Hi there.

As you've undoubtedly seen, people keep coming to the forum after losing everything they had. The circumstances vary, but the end result is pretty much always the same; immense frustration, a huge feeling of loss and in some cases, the person will quit the game over it.

I think a rather small change to the whole insurance/re-buy system could make it much less frustrating, and cause less players to quit, while retaining the feeling of "death is expensive".

Allow us to pay the re-buy cost at a later date. Rather than a system that offers us to re-buy us now or never, make it now or later. Dying would still cost the same as it does now, the difference is only that, rather than losing everything you had, your beloved ship and modules are frozen until you earn back the re-buy cost.

People who go without insurance will still find themselves in the free Sidewinder after an accident, they'll still hate having died, but they'd at least have the option of getting their old assets back in a reasonable timeframe, rather than being forced to start from scratch.

I think this change would make a lot less people quit - and dying still wouldn't be cheap. Keeping the re-buy cost on hand would still be smart, as it'll save you from having to earn the money back in an inferior ship.

What are your thoughts on this? Do you have any suggestions of your own?

Kindly keep posts along the lines of "They deserved it" out of here. Everyone knows that flying with less than the re-buy cost isn't a great idea - but that doesn't mean it's a great idea for the game to keep things as they are, either, because the current system WILL drive players away, be it their fault or not.

 

[pantbash]

My suggestion is that the person just stashes a smaller ship (Cobra or some such) somewhere.

So if the worst does happen with their main expensive ship, at least they are not knocked all the way back to a Sidey.

 

[Stkx]

I was about to suggest the same thing but involves a deadline to keep a scene of loss depending on the ships total price. Something like 100k = 1 day. Maybe higher

Also it could also be different insurance plans. Game starts you out with the default 5%, loss is permanent if couldn't pay. Further into the game you can purchase a different type of insurance like the suggestion (not sure about pricing). Heck, maybe the late game insurance plan can cost 500m. In return, loss of a ship is fully covered

 

[Flyinpiranha]

My suggestion is that the person just stashes a smaller ship (Cobra or some such) somewhere.

So if the worst does happen with their main expensive ship, at least they are not knocked all the way back to a Sidey.

This would be great if you could 'spawn' at that ship in case of catastrophe. I haven't had it happen but I assume you can? I wasn't able to ages ago when I died in the Sidey and wanted so spawn at the Freagle.

If I could "get" to my ship, It would be worth it, but the jump range of the Asp makes it so if I got decimated and had no insurance I'd probably not be able to make it back to the banked T6 (if I kept it) anyway.

 

[Panzer]

Or maybe just unlimited, timed loan?

 

[Elriuhilu]

Or maybe just leave it as it is now since it's simple, easy to understand and takes practically no special effort to leave enough money for the insurance excess.

 

[MirageGuardian]

Or maybe just leave it as it is now since it's simple, easy to understand and takes practically no special effort to leave enough money for the insurance excess.

Seems about right +1

 

[Rose]

How about:

When purchasing a ship or a piece of equipment for a ship, you can choose to buy it without insurance (at the same prices as they are now, with suitable 'ARE YOU REALLY SURE?' confirmation messages) or with insurance (at a marked up price). Then, on destruction of a ship:

• If the ship was insured, you can choose to get the items or cash value of whatever you paid the insurance for (list of checkboxes for all insured items).
• If the ship WASN'T insured (or you choose to take the cash value of your insured ship), you just get the cash value of those pieces of equipment for which you bought the insurance.

On the sale (or exchange) of an item of equipment, you only get the without-insurance-mark-up value back--so there are reasons to HAVE insurance and reasons NOT to have it.

I think this would also make insurance within the game realistic and give the hypothetical in-game insurance companies a way to make a profit (i.e., on items that don't get destroyed and on items that are sold, as the insurance is not transferable and the premium is lost on sold items).

 

[xanaki]

Or maybe just leave it as it is now since it's simple, easy to understand and takes practically no special effort to leave enough money for the insurance excess.

This what Elriuhilu said. Just leave enough cash for insurance. Playing blind is no good.

 

[Blake_Dragon]

this here is from my thread 2 days ago:

Hello my fellow commanders.

As it seems that, despite a lot of examples what/how not to handle your Ship's Re purchase cost here on this forum, it seems like there is almost daily someone that finds that stumbling block for one reason or another. Simple point is that Mr Murphy is running loose and *WILL* clobber you over the head with his law the minute you even remotely give him a chance. there has been discussions how and what all "needs" to be changed. some valid points have been raised and some of those discussions dissolved into another version of the trench warfare simulator with both sides stagnated, dug in and sniping at each other, not helping the actual issue at hand until a moderator comes by and smacks the thread closed.

So what can we do? Some have advocated to not let you take off even if under insured and others counter we have enough hand holding. both have its merits and *personally* i enjoy how it is as it does make me think about what i am doing and gives me some (additional) practice in fiscal responsibility.

Thinking on this a bit I gotten to think why not increase the visibility of the insurance situation and thought of a 2 part approach that would not be to obvious hand-holding but also may help some out.

Here is part one of it with two examples:

Spoiler

OK and Insured

Spoiler

not OK and Uninsured

Part two of this would include the utilization of the Info display on your main HUD, Similar to a seat belt warning in your car (for those who do drive) the screen could sporadically (say in 5 minute intervals) nave a warning flash on it (maybe even colored if that is a possibility to code that way) that goes something like "Warning, Insufficient Rebuy Funds"

Personally, I feel an approach like this would not smack anyone over the head with to much hand holding flashing arrows or pop ups before you leave the station, still leaves the responsibility for your actions in your hand (as in above mentioned example with the seat belt warning, you still can drive w/o if you so choose) and since its "technically" handled trough the ships computer it should not brake the immersion for those who value that aspect of the game highly (I believe anyway).

Now then, your input please Commanders, if y'all all feel i'm completely off my rocker, i'll head back to my porch and enjoy my popcorn


on a... unrelated note... would Mr Murphy please report to the Port-side Airlock #7? your Law has been found and is stored there, taped to the handle labeled "Release"

now, in addition to this, a thing that could help would be an "Insurance/Rebuy" lock in your system panel under the functions window, (same place we can turn the orbital lines off now) this with a default ON would stop you from spending any cash you have over the re-buy options.
yes, i know people still will turn that off and then come visit the forums about. greed and all that.

oh and here is a warning about flying dirty

 

[Weps]

How about:

[...]

A simplified version would be:

- all items (ships included) have the insurance built in their price
- if the player cannot pay the 5% deductible, they are simply given back the 95% of the insured value in form of cash.

What infuriates players atm is that (theoretically) they have insurance, yet they get nothing if they don't have the 5% deductible. That's not how insurance works IRL and would never work (pay to be ensured, have a loophole where you lose everything).

Even IRL if there is a deductible, say on car, which the owner cannot pay, the car is simply kept as collateral until the debt is payed. Ownership of the car is NEVER lost.

 

[thewzdoc]

Or maybe just leave it as it is now since it's simple, easy to understand and takes practically no special effort to leave enough money for the insurance excess.

Another voice of reason in the wilderness....

It's a simple system. It now shows you what you need to have for the insurance deductable/overage right there in the modules panel. Just manage your CR better and we can all move along here.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

A simplified version would be:

- all items (ships included) have the insurance built in their price
- if the player cannot pay the 5% deductible, they are simply given back the 95% of the insured value in form of cash.

What infuriates players atm is that (theoretically) they have insurance, yet they get nothing if they don't have the 5% deductible. That's not how insurance works IRL and would never work (pay to be ensured, have a loophole where you lose everything).

Even IRL if there is a deductible, say on car, which the owner cannot pay, the car is simply kept as collateral until the debt is payed. Ownership of the car is NEVER lost.

They can deselect modules, the main thread on this yesterday was a guy that lost an ASP, he was 11,000CR short of the 200,000CR loan max....he could have deselected Modules until the 200,000CR loan covered him. IRL should come into play here....no insurance company in the galaxy could continue with the kinds of loss they are seeing. It's a game mechanic.

 

[beelbeebub]

A display of the rebuy cost in the outfitting/shipyard screen would be good.
.
It would be nice (in future) if loans or even complete ship packages were available, with "strings" attached for example:
.

• 
  [*=1]you were in tight with the Fed Navy so gentleman in a dark suit and sunglasses might offer you a nice second hand Cobra (with the serial numbers mysteriously removed) , all you have to do is complete a few deniable jobs for them.
  [*=1]The local mob boss has heard of your smuggling rep and offers you some cash to buy a new ship in return for some favours
  [*=1]A loan shark from a black market contact will offer you the cash but the interest is high and failure to pay up might result in an interdiction by some mercenaries
  [*=1]If you are an law abiding trader with a good record in profit making legitimate runs the bank of Zaonce might be willing to extend a loan on favourable terms.

.
Which packages and how much were offered would be dependent on your rep with various factions and in various trades.
.
However, the death penalty should always be high, don't fly what you can't buy!

 

[Cmdr Sharky]

I always make sure I have at least two spare ships parked up somewhere. I haven't needed to go back to them for insurance purposes yet, but I do occasionally swap over to them just for fun. For instance I used my Cobra to follow along Angel Rose's journeys over the holiday period, rather than my Lakon. And when I move up from a Lakon to something else, maybe an Asp to do some long range exploration, I'll keep the Lakon parked somewhere that has a nice trade route.

I suppose if the worst does happen and I lose a ship that I can't afford, and I do sometimes fly without insurance money if I've just bought a big outfitting upgrade, I might get stuck in an area that I literally cannot hyperspace out of due to limited jump range on the basic sidewinder. In that eventuality I might have to do a few local delivery missions to earn a better FSD so I can get to another ship.

 

[schuesseled]

Or maybe just leave it as it is now since it's simple, easy to understand and takes practically no special effort to leave enough money for the insurance excess.

I wouldn't have a problem with this suggestion, there's no real deadline on making claims. If you want to make an insurance claim for when the titanic sunk, go for it. (unlikely to have a favourable outcome though)

 

[Skip Intro]

This is overcomplicating the fact that if you don't have enough cash on hand to replace things you lose, try not to lose those things.

 

[Psyche]

Not trying to say "they deserved it", but I was coming to suggest more information when buying a ship on how insurance works etc. But then I thought...what did the player think was happening? Surely they either thought that the ship was going to be gone once it was destroyed, and they'd have to start again, or they knew about insurance and should've known better?

I'm not saying that we shouldn't make changes to improve it, but I am trying to get inside the minds of people who lose a ship they couldn't afford to replace. The replacement costs are super cheap considering how much was invested in the ship in the first place, and it's easy to see your rebuy costs. Is it simply that people aren't aware of their rebuy cost before they lose the ship?

I don't think the insurance system needs much of a change, though perhaps some improvements to the loaning system? I don't really know how loans work, though, as I've never encountered it.

 

[ChaseBears]

That you get nothing at all if you can't meet the deductible is ludicrous. Needlessly punishing and irrational even in the crazy world of the pilot's federation. Pick a death penalty and stick to it. Dropping someone all the way back to sidewinder if they are 1cr short is nuts.

Any bank in the galaxy would loan a commander the cash to cover the difference in a heartbeat. Then I don't know. If you lose the ship again before paying off the loan the bank repo's your ship. At least that makes *sense*.

 

[medwyn]

Lots of good ideas here - however I don't see this as a real problem.
Elite is said to be Dangerous but apparently it's not that much This little feature with the current insurance system looks to be the only dangerous part of the game, the only leverage we all have to pay attention to.
I wouldn't make this easier.

On the other hand I understand (and see daily) how commanders are hit on the head with a shovel in no time when they don't have enough in their pocket to cover their loss.
It's their decision beforehand not to honour themselves enough to reduce the chance of the loss. It's rather a private spirit than a game problem for me.
ED is educative enough to show how important discipline is when making decisions

 

[beelbeebub]

Wasn't there a Mecha game (Steel Battalion?) back in the early 2000's that had a ridiculous custom controller with an eject button on it. If you didn't hit the eject button in time to save your pilot, your whole save game was wiped (i.e. full irreversible character death).
.
The iron man mode proposed (and presumably still coming) was along those lines, so what we have now with incautious players getting bounced back to a SW is a pale shadow of what it could have been.....